Maccabi Haifa Champions League matches almost sold out - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 00:29 Thread Starter
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Maccabi Haifa Champions League matches almost sold out

For any of us here who though of going to Israel to watch either juve,bayern, or even bordeaux at ramat gan...think again (and i can't say that me and my friends didn't try to get tickets for the matches). My friends went a bit late to get tickets ( i think they did it through "lehan" ticket agency and it was already sold out) i just read on the sport5 that 31k of the champions league "season" tickets have been taken....i'm honestly considering travelling to munchen or torino to watch the match....i'm going to make contact with a friend who lives in munchen
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 01:07
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Get me aboard this euro-trip....


I guess this contradicts the 17,000 tickets sold for Latvia.
I guess people want a show. Bayern Munich is a big name. Juventus is as well. Bordeux will be a treat.....

I think if you can break down the tickets than you would see that:

out of the 31,000 fans that are coming:
68% are Maccabi Fans
20% are regular Israeli fans with no certain feeling for any of the side
12% are Juventus/Bayern fans living in Israel.......

why do i say 12%?
Because for some reason their is more than average fan base for a club like Juventus in Israel ...

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 01:27
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It would be surprising if Ramat Gan didnīt have a full capacity for all CL games, afterall it is themost important football tournament in the world at club level and everyone wants to make part of it.

Not everyday we see teams like Juventus or Bayern so naturally even non Maccabi Haifa fans will want to buy tickets to watch the game.

Unfortunately i still thought that in order for Haifa to have a bit more chance to win or at least have a 3rd place they should have decided to host the games in Bloomfield where the crowd pressures more and has a an intimidating atmosphere, but i understand the money issue.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 09:40
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I hope the people from Haifa have bus transport organised to Tel Aviv for those games? A penfriend of mine is living in Haifa and is a heavy Maccabi fan, but he doesnīt have a car as far as I know ... would be a shame if he would only see these big games on a TV screen.

How much shekel is one ticket? Just to have an idea about how much cash Maccabi is making (aside from TV rights and the money from UEFA as reward for qualification)
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 16:24
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Haifa fans go by Train to matchs in Ramat gan, if not then theres busses and rest asure all of this will be setteled, and let's say it wouldn't I bet your friend would even walk from Haifa to Tel aviv to see it
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 17:12
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He goes to all home games in the league (think he has a season card) and several away games + heīs been to Ramat Gan to see an Israel NT game a few times. So he does make efford yes I hope he can see the games, it means a lot to him, heīs been talking for years how much heīd love to see Haifa in the CL.

Interesting is I got in touch with him because of the Rosenborg-Haifa game a few years back ... Me, a Rosenborg fan, and he a Haifa fan. But we got along well and actually I started to really like Haifa the more he told me about them, and he started to like Rosenborg. So despite the dramatic result of that game, we started to like each others teams ...
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old September 4th, 2009, 22:50
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Well, considering that Israel is not a big country and a car drive from Haifa to Tel Aviv is a bit more than a hour, this wonīt be a problem.

Plus, Haifa management will certainly organize busses for the fans and like Stanko said they could by train and even on foot

33,000 season tickets for the three group stage games have been sold. We will certainly have a sell out in all games.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old September 5th, 2009, 05:00 Thread Starter
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its israel! busses will be organized if not then take egged, if not then take the train, and if not then everyone can just pack into "Alon's fiat" and get to bloomfield in an uncomfortable ride! a true fan will find a way to get there.


Also, Kappa I agree with you on fan precentage. I was in Israel last year during the spring for passover, i went to a bar in tel-aviv to watch a juve game and there is a huge organization of juve fans in israel, there were atleast 50 packed in the bar that sunday...and they are hardcore, they know all the chants in italian and they are very friendly guys..nice organization actually...
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old September 5th, 2009, 06:36
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Also, Kappa I agree with you on fan precentage. I was in Israel last year during the spring for passover, i went to a bar in tel-aviv to watch a juve game and there is a huge organization of juve fans in israel, there were atleast 50 packed in the bar that sunday...and they are hardcore, they know all the chants in italian and they are very friendly guys..nice organization actually...
F-U-C-K Juventus fans. Break their bones and skulls!!!

playing around Youtube.....i saw a few notable Israeli Juventus fans going to Italy and meeting top players and giving them cheezy awards from Juventus Israel... No one can deny it...

I do recall that one of our x-members...a beitar fan and juventus fan took pictures with Del Piero when he came to Israel.


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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old September 5th, 2009, 23:57
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While I hope Maccabi will do well in all games, especially against Juve I hope for a sensational win. Because I cannot stand Juventus. Awful club Seeing a team you like win is ALWAYS nice, but when the opponent is a team you dislike the win tastes even sweeter.


Why disliking Juve? The club is just wrong, totally wrong. Corrupt bunch of board members, goalie declaring he likes fascism, founded by elitists who even commanded to wear a tie on the pitch in the early days, claiming to be the worldīs best supported club but always playing in a half empty Delle Alpi, ... I just dislike this club very much. Of course I wish Haifa good luck in all games, but especially against Juve it would be very very sweet to get points.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old September 5th, 2009, 23:59
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While I hope Maccabi will do well in all games, especially against Juve I hope for a sensational win. Because I cannot stand Juventus. Awful club Seeing a team you like win is ALWAYS nice, but when the opponent is a team you dislike the win tastes even sweeter.


Why disliking Juve? The club is just wrong, totally wrong. Corrupt bunch of board members, goalie declaring he likes fascism, founded by elitists who even commanded to wear a tie on the pitch in the early days, claiming to be the worldīs best supported club but always playing in a half empty Delle Alpi, ... I just dislike this club very much. Of course I wish Haifa good luck in all games, but especially against Juve it would be very very sweet to get points.

I usually get picked on by Juventus fans at work for liking Inter Milan

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 02:28
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While I hope Maccabi will do well in all games, especially against Juve I hope for a sensational win. Because I cannot stand Juventus. Awful club Seeing a team you like win is ALWAYS nice, but when the opponent is a team you dislike the win tastes even sweeter.


Why disliking Juve? The club is just wrong, totally wrong. Corrupt bunch of board members, goalie declaring he likes fascism, founded by elitists who even commanded to wear a tie on the pitch in the early days, claiming to be the worldīs best supported club but always playing in a half empty Delle Alpi, ... I just dislike this club very much. Of course I wish Haifa good luck in all games, but especially against Juve it would be very very sweet to get points.
Actually Juventus is an intresting case. They were founded by aristocrats, by the so called elite and controlled by the Angelli family of the FIAT group. So you initially could call them an "elite club", but half of their fans are from working class. In a recent poll in Italy, Juventus had around 30% of the fans while Internazionale was second place with 18% just a bit ahead of Milan with 17%.
Many workers from southern Italy went to the north, especially to Turin and were employed by FIAT and are grateful to them.

In Italy it is difficult to analyze clubs by their social class because it is pretty much mixed, but maybe through political view you could have a better highlight.
For example Lazio tend to represent more the extreme right while Livorno the extreme left.
Roma are called leftist by Lazio fans, even there was a famous banner in a derby match "squadra di negri, curva di ebrei", meaning "team of blacks, curva (where the hard core fans stay) of Jews". But the Roma ultras are identified nowadays with the right (not so radical as Lazio of course).
In the "Derby della Madonina" how the Milan derby is known. Milan used to be considered the team more to the right, especially since Berlusconi came in and Inter more to the left, but Inter curva is known to be "right".
And the fact they have an oil magnate as owners (Angelo Moratti in the early stages and now his son Massimo Moratti) also refutes this theory.

When i was once in Italy i met with a Juventus fan and when he knew i was Jewish he said that Inter had many Jewish fans. But i wouldnīt be surprised to Milan for example having many Jewish supporters, especially because current Berlusconi government tends to be less critical on Israel and sometimes even supporting it.

Anyways, hope Maccabi Haifa wins, but not because of this "hatred" you have for Juventus, but rather in support for an Israeli team.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 14:24 Thread Starter
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i went to the milan derby and the inter curva had atleast 3 banners in hebrew writing things to support inter. I think juve, as opposed to other clubs in italy, have seperated a bit from their poitical connection. They are no longer like roma, lazio, bologna, livorno, inter, etc.

I once read a very good book called football and politics, and it explains all the politics in south america (berko they have a huge section about brazil which was very interesting and kind of sad), former yugoslavia, spain, and italy...i suggest you guys read it.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 14:58
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Berko, Lazio is a far right club with fascists and racists making up a not very tiny portion of their fans... so those banners donīt surprise me at all.

As for Juventus, indeed they get a lot of support from southern Italy and many Italian expats elsewhere support them, also non-Italians around the world seem to like them. But few of them ever go to a game, Juve has most "TV watching fans" in the world maybe but they rarely sell out Delle Alpi. Also, their match selling and bribing was punished in a ridiculous way. For buying games several years with concrete proves, relegating one division and starting with -9 was a joke. Two divisions down and -30 at the start would have been a more proper punishment. Juve did not just bribe once, they did it on frequent basis and concrete proves are at the table. Less than 3 years later that club is already making millions in the CL again, as if they never got punished at all.

I always disliked Juve though, also before the bribing became public. There is something unpleasant about the whole way they play and about the atmosphere of that club. I always found their way of playing quite boring, and several of their players have a really unpleasant attitude. Buffon declaring he is a fascist as if itīs totally normal for example... Donīt get me wrong, great goalie, but still I wouldnīt want that kind of guy anywhere near my favourite club.




Come to think of it, Haifa did draw some very unpleasant clubs. Bayern is about the most hated team in Germany except for Dynamo Berlin (except for the Bayern fans themselves most people dislike them) ... Then they got Juve ...
Well, at least Bordeaux seem allright...
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 17:30
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Berko, Lazio is a far right club with fascists and racists making up a not very tiny portion of their fans... so those banners donīt surprise me at all.

As for Juventus, indeed they get a lot of support from southern Italy and many Italian expats elsewhere support them, also non-Italians around the world seem to like them. But few of them ever go to a game, Juve has most "TV watching fans" in the world maybe but they rarely sell out Delle Alpi. Also, their match selling and bribing was punished in a ridiculous way. For buying games several years with concrete proves, relegating one division and starting with -9 was a joke. Two divisions down and -30 at the start would have been a more proper punishment. Juve did not just bribe once, they did it on frequent basis and concrete proves are at the table. Less than 3 years later that club is already making millions in the CL again, as if they never got punished at all.

I always disliked Juve though, also before the bribing became public. There is something unpleasant about the whole way they play and about the atmosphere of that club. I always found their way of playing quite boring, and several of their players have a really unpleasant attitude. Buffon declaring he is a fascist as if itīs totally normal for example... Donīt get me wrong, great goalie, but still I wouldnīt want that kind of guy anywhere near my favourite club.




Come to think of it, Haifa did draw some very unpleasant clubs. Bayern is about the most hated team in Germany except for Dynamo Berlin (except for the Bayern fans themselves most people dislike them) ... Then they got Juve ...
Well, at least Bordeaux seem allright...
Indeed Juventus rarely fills in Delle Alpi and now the Olympic Stadium where they usually host their games since 2007. One reason could be your explanation, but donīt forget that in the city of Turin, their rivals Torino have the largest fanbase. Juve has the biggest fanbase in Italy, but not in the city. (It is like Coca Cola, they have the biggest percentage of global market, but at their home, the USA they lose to Pepsi).
Regarding Bayern, it is curious because in Israel despite recent history of World War II there isnīt a hatred towards them. Actually i once heard that Bayern Munchen was linked to the Jews, especially before the Nazis took over. The club was known to be burgeois and at that time Jewish community had many succesful businessmen that invested in sport.

Maybe this fact is an implicit reason why Bayern is the most hated in Germany.

Regarding Bordeaux, yeah i guess they are ok. Much better than playing against Marseille that have a large muslim fanbase and we certainly would receive a lot of unpleasant banners and chants.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 17:39
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i went to the milan derby and the inter curva had atleast 3 banners in hebrew writing things to support inter. I think juve, as opposed to other clubs in italy, have seperated a bit from their poitical connection. They are no longer like roma, lazio, bologna, livorno, inter, etc.

I once read a very good book called football and politics, and it explains all the politics in south america (berko they have a huge section about brazil which was very interesting and kind of sad), former yugoslavia, spain, and italy...i suggest you guys read it.
Well, so apparently this Juve fan i met was right, Inter does have a good amount of Jewish support.
In the Milan derby you sat with the Inter curva?

Regarding the book, is this its whole name, "Football and Politics"?

As for the politics involving in politics in South Amercia it is well known their influence.
Italy complains of the famous "Battle of Santiago" in the 1962 WC the Chileans were helped by the referees. Two Italians were sent off and one of them left with a broken nose.
Argentinaīs first WC title in 1978 as they were hosts, used to hide the political tension at the country (at that time the country was runned by a strict military regime). The famous 6-0 victory over Peru which led them to the next stage until today leads us to think that some Peruvian players were bribed and the fact that their keeper was an Argentinian born raises even more the suspicion.

In Brazil, same thing. When the country won the 1970 WC it was the darkest period of the military regime and Pele and co displays were used to make the population distracted from the social tension and so on.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 17:54
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Berko, Bayern is mainly hated in Germany because of
a) they are very succesful, which always causes upset with fans of other less succesful teams
b) they are arrogant. They are the type of "look at us, we are the greatest, and we will win all the trophies yet again" club. That causes irritation with other clubs (and laughter when they donīt win the trophies in the end ...)

I doubt the jewish involvement in the club has anything to do with it, I doubt that even many Germans know that this was the situation many years ago. Jewish sports teams in Germany have been re-established after the war was over, the likes of Makkabi Berlin and several others in other cities have been playing without too much hassle ever since (occasional riots aside, but it is not like they have a significant amount of problems)

Bayern are just hated for their attitude and success. You can compare it to a lot of big clubs I guess. An oddity is that within Munchen about half of the city actually supports second divisionist 1860-Munchen while Bayern attracts fans in the whole country (again something we see in many countries) probably because of their successes. Success attracts fans, but also causes hatred. Usually in every country and every sport, the most succesful teams have most fans but also most haters.




As for Juventus, they indeed have many fans but a lot of those fans are what (when I lived in Ireland was a popular term) are called "barstoolers": the fans who buy a shirt of the club and then sit in their pub watching the games on TV, but never bother to buy a ticket and go to the stadium. Juve have a lot of those fans... Especially in southern Italy and amongst Italian expats abroad they are very popular, but inside Torino they are inferior to Torino in terms of support.

Back when Juve was founded, the players wore pink jerseys with a tie ... Can you imagine the looks of that on the pitch? If only they still did that their games would maybe be less boring to watch
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 18:46
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Berko, Bayern is mainly hated in Germany because of
a) they are very succesful, which always causes upset with fans of other less succesful teams
b) they are arrogant. They are the type of "look at us, we are the greatest, and we will win all the trophies yet again" club. That causes irritation with other clubs (and laughter when they donīt win the trophies in the end ...)

I doubt the jewish involvement in the club has anything to do with it, I doubt that even many Germans know that this was the situation many years ago. Jewish sports teams in Germany have been re-established after the war was over, the likes of Makkabi Berlin and several others in other cities have been playing without too much hassle ever since (occasional riots aside, but it is not like they have a significant amount of problems)

Bayern are just hated for their attitude and success. You can compare it to a lot of big clubs I guess. An oddity is that within Munchen about half of the city actually supports second divisionist 1860-Munchen while Bayern attracts fans in the whole country (again something we see in many countries) probably because of their successes. Success attracts fans, but also causes hatred. Usually in every country and every sport, the most succesful teams have most fans but also most haters.




As for Juventus, they indeed have many fans but a lot of those fans are what (when I lived in Ireland was a popular term) are called "barstoolers": the fans who buy a shirt of the club and then sit in their pub watching the games on TV, but never bother to buy a ticket and go to the stadium. Juve have a lot of those fans... Especially in southern Italy and amongst Italian expats abroad they are very popular, but inside Torino they are inferior to Torino in terms of support.

Back when Juve was founded, the players wore pink jerseys with a tie ... Can you imagine the looks of that on the pitch? If only they still did that their games would maybe be less boring to watch
Yes, i agree with your points of view. Success brings envy from other teams, especially when you dominate the league for a while. Juventus had this period in Italy, Bayern has this in Germany, Ajax had it in Holland, Manchester United in England and so on.
But this doesnīt necessarly mean that the one who wins is arrogant, maybe the stereotype is a bit biased by the opposing fans.
Maybe regarding Juveīs case specifically you could have arguments since they had a history of corruption that cost them relegation in the 80īs when they had Paolo Rossi and recently in the "Calcionero" in 2005/2006.

Regarding the Jewish issue, in Hungary for example there is a club called MTK Hungaria who was founded by Jewish businessmen of Budapest. During many years the vast majority of their fans were Jews and despite World War II the Hungarians still see it as a Jewish club. They are a relatively successful club nowadays and they should in theory have a bigger fanbase, but the fact they have this tradition certainly blocks more support.
Many opposing fans, especially Ferencvaros (the most prized team in Hungary and that were relagated two seasons ago due to financial crisis) chanted anti-semitic and sick slurs like "Auschwitz is back" while making train noises in matches against MTK.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 21:09
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Well, Ferencvaros are a very far-right club, very racist. They are the Hungarian equivalent of Lazio and other such clubs full of racist fans and sometimes even players (Di Canio comes into mind). Unfortunately racism is deeply rooted in football, and it goes into all directions. Minorities are an easy target, clubs who have some connection with "minority religions" such as Judaism or Islam will get some abuse in Europe. I would however say the problem is always with the same clubs, whereas the majority of clubs luckily rejects such behaviour.


You are right that a succesful club being "arrogant" is often a biased impression from the fans of less succesful teams. In Bayernīs case though the reputation of being arrogant is not completely false. There have been lots of scandals around the clubs with players behaving like big stars in their spare time. The club in Germany is often nicknamed FC Hollywood because there was always some sensation around the club.

Also contributing towards the hatred of big clubs, apart from their successes, is often that people from the entire country support them (because of the successes often). I mean, Manchester United, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern, Ajax etc have fans not only in their own city but all over their own country. Often this causes jealousy with fans of other clubs, a fan of for example Newcastle will not like it when people from that city donīt support their own team but instead support more succesful teams from Manchester, Liverpool or London. The whole "gloryhunting" element is also something that contributes to the hatred of the big clubs: not only fans of other clubs are jealous of their success, but they also hate the fact that people from the entire country are drawn to that success.

That the big club is arrogant indeed is often a biased opinion. Iīd say in Bayernīs case it is a justified reputation, although the last few years they seem to keep the scandals more inside the house and away from the press (or maybe they just control their players more strictly) so it seems Bayern is trying to get rid of that image they have had for decades.




PS: the question is ... arenīt the people who dislike those big clubs not right in one aspect: if you see that clubs like Liverpool, Manchester United, Barcelona etc sell jerseys in Zimbabwe, USA, Japan, China etc and play friendlies there to attract people living 10000 km away in buying merchandise ... Something about that doesnīt feel right to me neither. If a person in for example Japan or Zambia just feels attracted to Man United, thatīs his every right and nobody should judge him for that, it came spontaneous and he just chose a club he likes just like we all do. However, a club really trying to brand themselves in a market that is on the other end of the world, the club deliberately trying to make themselves popular in an area of the world they have nothing to do with, is something totally different than an African or Asian person who spontaneously felt attracted to an English or German team.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2009, 21:53
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Well, Ferencvaros are a very far-right club, very racist. They are the Hungarian equivalent of Lazio and other such clubs full of racist fans and sometimes even players (Di Canio comes into mind). Unfortunately racism is deeply rooted in football, and it goes into all directions. Minorities are an easy target, clubs who have some connection with "minority religions" such as Judaism or Islam will get some abuse in Europe. I would however say the problem is always with the same clubs, whereas the majority of clubs luckily rejects such behaviour.


You are right that a succesful club being "arrogant" is often a biased impression from the fans of less succesful teams. In Bayernīs case though the reputation of being arrogant is not completely false. There have been lots of scandals around the clubs with players behaving like big stars in their spare time. The club in Germany is often nicknamed FC Hollywood because there was always some sensation around the club.

Also contributing towards the hatred of big clubs, apart from their successes, is often that people from the entire country support them (because of the successes often). I mean, Manchester United, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern, Ajax etc have fans not only in their own city but all over their own country. Often this causes jealousy with fans of other clubs, a fan of for example Newcastle will not like it when people from that city donīt support their own team but instead support more succesful teams from Manchester, Liverpool or London. The whole "gloryhunting" element is also something that contributes to the hatred of the big clubs: not only fans of other clubs are jealous of their success, but they also hate the fact that people from the entire country are drawn to that success.

That the big club is arrogant indeed is often a biased opinion. Iīd say in Bayernīs case it is a justified reputation, although the last few years they seem to keep the scandals more inside the house and away from the press (or maybe they just control their players more strictly) so it seems Bayern is trying to get rid of that image they have had for decades.




PS: the question is ... arenīt the people who dislike those big clubs not right in one aspect: if you see that clubs like Liverpool, Manchester United, Barcelona etc sell jerseys in Zimbabwe, USA, Japan, China etc and play friendlies there to attract people living 10000 km away in buying merchandise ... Something about that doesnīt feel right to me neither. If a person in for example Japan or Zambia just feels attracted to Man United, thatīs his every right and nobody should judge him for that, it came spontaneous and he just chose a club he likes just like we all do. However, a club really trying to brand themselves in a market that is on the other end of the world, the club deliberately trying to make themselves popular in an area of the world they have nothing to do with, is something totally different than an African or Asian person who spontaneously felt attracted to an English or German team.

Yes, these clubs have many fans because of their success, it makes part of society and human mind. Most of the people always aim to win or to be recognized as important. If this characteristic is well administrated then is healthy, if it becomes an obsession than we will have problems.

In some cases, like we mentioned Juventus, it was as if the club represented the country. Something with success. If i am not mistaken Juventus won a CL with only Italian players on their team.
In Israel, in basketball Maccabi Tel Aviv has the biggest support by far even by Haifa or Beitar fans (never Hapoel) because somehow they bring pride to the country.

Regarding the teams having numerous fans abroad, football is a reflex of the society. When we had the Cold War period, rarely we had foreign players on the teams, the wages and transfer bids were much lower. With collapse of socialism and a more globalized world, football simply got along with what was happening. More nations relating themselves with others, more businesses, the European Union which ended up having influence on the Bosman ruling and so on. Together with this we end up having the opposite, the ones who are against this massive integration (and the curious is that both extreme right and extreme left are united on this issue) and all the examples you gave.
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