The CONCACAF WCQ system needs to change! - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old September 5th, 2004, 20:26 Thread Starter
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The CONCACAF WCQ system needs to change!

The CONCACAF system is wrong and tops my list of things Iíd like FIFA to change. Not only does it show a lack of respect towards our football, but it just isnít fair. It leaves the teams little room for error, itís not as if the players have much chemistry and should already know how to play with each other. How can you expect a team to play up to their potential when you call them up every couple of months or so, give them 2-3 days at most to train together? Thatís ridiculous and it needs to change as soon as these World Cup Qualifiers are over.

Of course, the CONCACAF has more teams in their region like UEFA (Europe) and CONMEBOL (South America) but that doesnít change anything at all. Why not have one large group and the top three teams make the cut for the World Cup? This knock-out phase starting from the get-go is boneheaded.

Basically, I just want the system changed to how CONMEBOL runís it. Fair and simple, I donít give a crap if weíve got 35 teams. At the very least they could divide it into more then one group, something can be figured out for it to be better IMO.

Please, feel free post your thoughts on this topic.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2004, 14:37
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Its just fine the way it is, Making a large group and have them play each other twice is just too expensive for poor nations like Belice, Haiti, and some little islands who can harldy afford the travel expenses.

Other thing is that out of the 3 1/2 spots FIFA gave us for the WC we all know that 2 of them are taken by USA and Mexico (Im just been realistic) and we had to fight for the other one like mad dogs.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old September 6th, 2004, 15:46 Thread Starter
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You don't have to play each other twice, you could just play each other once. And remember, I said that since there are 30+ teams in our region we should divide them into groups and the winner of each group then goes to a knock-out stage. The current system is ridiculous and leaves too little room for error, it's ridiculous.

By the looks of things, USA and Mexico will have a real tough time this time around. Everyone's gunning for them; I fancy teams like Jamaica, El Salvador, Trinidad and Panama. Best of luck to them, would do a world of good for them if they could make the WC.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old December 22nd, 2005, 02:34
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I just surfed into this thread, and noticed that there is a desire to see the CONCACAF qualifying format changed. Here is something I came up with, take a look and see what you think.

How about seven groups of 5 teams each? Or five groups of 7 teams each? In both of these scenarios, it would be a single round-robin format (one team plays all others in group just one time). I have to admit I did not think of anything past the first round of qualifying, so using either scenario as a starting point (with the top 2 from each group going to the second qualifying stage), feel free to post any other ideas you may have.

Looking forward to the response!
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old December 22nd, 2005, 14:20
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I think it would be an interesting idea, to have 7 groups of 5 teams each. It'd be similar to Europe.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old December 23rd, 2005, 12:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic
I think it would be an interesting idea, to have 7 groups of 5 teams each. It'd be similar to Europe.
It would be the only FAIR way to do it...... then when the CREAM rises to the top (Mexico, USA, C RIca, Honduras, T&T, Jamaica, El Salvador, etc, etc) no one cant bitch anymore.


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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old December 23rd, 2005, 15:18
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Exactly. I don't think the results would be any different, but it would be a better set up. The only question is, would the qualification process take longer?

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old December 23rd, 2005, 20:35
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I think if there are 7 groups of 5 teams each, it would be very fast. 6 matchdays, and that's it. As it stands now we have 4 matchdays in the 1st Phase, the knockout phase, as there are two rounds of that, 6 matchdays in the 2nd Phase (1st group phase), and 10 in the hexagonal (2nd group phase), making for a total of 18-20 matches played for teams who reach the final stage.

I like the idea, though I think qualifying should be something a little more substantial than that. How about home-and-away, and basically mimicking Europe?

Here's a sample pot I drew up:

Pot 1
USA
Mexico
Costa Rica
Honduras
Guatemala
Trinidad & Tobago
Jamaica

Pot 2
Canada
Cuba
Haiti
Panama
El Salvador
St. Vincent & the Grenadines
Barbados

Pot 3
St. Lucia
Surinam
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Grenada
Bermuda
Netherlands Antilles
Antigua and Barbuda

Pot 4
Guyana
Cayman Islands
Dominican Republic
Nicaragua
Belize
Dominica
British Virgin Islands

Pot 5
Aruba
Puerto Rico
Bahamas
US Virgin Islands
Turks and Caicos
Anguilla
Montserrat

Works out well in terms of teams, I'd say.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old December 23rd, 2005, 20:40
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The current system is good the way it is now. CONCACAF has only 3.5 spots. So, having 7 groups wouldn`t make sense.

The current system is good because it allows big games between Mexico, USA and Costa Rica.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old December 23rd, 2005, 20:49
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old December 23rd, 2005, 22:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMLF
The current system is good the way it is now. CONCACAF has only 3.5 spots. So, having 7 groups wouldn`t make sense.
Let me summarize how it would work.

First off, with the seven groups of 5 teams each (single round-robin format) you would have the top two teams advance to the 2nd round. This would give you 14 teams, and you could also include the best 3rd-place team, which would bring the total to 15 teams in the 2nd round.

You could then have three groups of 5 teams, same round-robin format, and the top placed teams would automatically qualify for the World Cup. The best 2nd-placed team could then enter a playoff against a team from another zone for the last spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMLF
The current system is good because it allows big games between Mexico, USA and Costa Rica.
This may be a valid point, but would you sacrifice seeing these types of games if it meant your country could qualify directly? I know I would. You don't see England complaining about qualification from a group that included Wales and Northern Ireland instead of the Germans and Dutch for example. Outright qualification is the object here, not basing it upon who you did or did not play.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old December 24th, 2005, 02:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMLF
The current system is good the way it is now. CONCACAF has only 3.5 spots. So, having 7 groups wouldn`t make sense.

The current system is good because it allows big games between Mexico, USA and Costa Rica.
This would just be for the first qualifying round. The winners of every group would advance to the hexagonal and then the two best second placed teams would do a play-off for the last spot in the hexagonal group.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old January 4th, 2006, 14:04
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If Concacaf keeps 3.5 spots and all 35 participate, this is how the qualifying system should look like:

Pot A:

USA
Mexico
Costa Rica

Pot B:

Trinidad and Tobago
Guatemala
Panama

Pot C:

Honduras
Jamaica
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Canada
El Salvador
St. Kitts and Nevis

Pot D:

Cuba

Pot E:

Bermuda
Surinam
Nicaragua
Haiti
Barbados
Grenada
Neterlands Antilles
Dominican Republic
St. Lucia
Belize
Dominica

Pot F:

Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Anguilla
Cayman Islands
Guyana
Turks and Caicos Islands
Aruba
British Virgin Islands
US Virgin Islands
Montserrat
Puerto Rico

Of course, there are other scenarios for pots D, E and F.

Pot D would contain Cuba and the winner of Nicaragua and Belize (both from Central America), while pots E and F would have 10 teams each, with Antigua and Barbuda climbing to pot E.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old January 4th, 2006, 20:48
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That looks like a good format for the draw. I think this would be a better way for the 1st Qualifying Round to work.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 07:32
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That's the system used in 2006. A lot depends on the number of spots CONCACAF will get after Germany 2006.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth
I just surfed into this thread, and noticed that there is a desire to see the CONCACAF qualifying format changed. Here is something I came up with, take a look and see what you think.

How about seven groups of 5 teams each? Or five groups of 7 teams each? In both of these scenarios, it would be a single round-robin format (one team plays all others in group just one time). I have to admit I did not think of anything past the first round of qualifying, so using either scenario as a starting point (with the top 2 from each group going to the second qualifying stage), feel free to post any other ideas you may have.

Looking forward to the response!
The small countries cannot afford travel expenses in your format. Belize played their home game in Canada because it couldn't afford it. Countries with sub-100k population couldn't compete in pan-regional games without getting blown out and getting their budget strained.

In fact, there are 20 countries with a population < 1,000,000. You cannot expect them to have a big budget for the football (or soccer ) NT.

Last edited by _Edgar_; January 5th, 2006 at 09:20.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 13:19
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In order to avoid having strong matches early on, with the loser going out, CONCACAF could implement a tennis-like system, where the top ranking teams will play the lowest ranked team, the 2nd team in the in rankings will play the 2nd from bottom etc.

For example purposes, I will assume the outcome of matches/groups are based on the FIFA rankings.

Rankings based on 2006 WC and WCQ performance:

USA
Mexico
Costa Rica
Trinidad and Tobago
Guatemala
Panama
Honduras
Jamaica
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Canada
El Salvador
St. Kitts and Nevis
Cuba
Bermuda
Surinam
Nicaragua
Haiti
Barbados
Grenada
Neterlands Antilles
Dominican Republic
St. Lucia
Belize
Dominica
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Anguilla
Cayman Islands
Guyana
Turks and Caicos Islands
Aruba
British Virgin Islands
US Virgin Islands
Montserrat
Puerto Rico

USA, Mexico, Costa Rica and Trinidad and Tobago would be ranked based on their performance in Germany.

First round

The lowest ranked 22 teams.
Two pots.

Pot 1: Bermuda, Surinam, Nicaragua, Haiti, Barbados, Grenada, Neterlands Antilles, Dominican Republic, St. Lucia, Belize, Dominica

Pot 2: Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Anguilla, Cayman Islands, Guyana, Turks and Caicos Islands, Aruba, British Virgin Islands, US Virgin Islands, Montserrat, Puerto Rico

Matches:

Bermuda - Puerto Rico
Surinam - Montserrat
Nicaragua - US Virgin Islands
Haiti - British Virgin Islands
Barbados - Aruba
Grenada - Turks and Caicos Islands
Neterlands Antilles - Guyana
Dominican Republic - Cayman Islands
St. Lucia - Anguilla
Belize - Bahamas
Dominica - Antigua and Barbuda

Second round

Highest ranked 13 teams + 11 winners from the first round.
2 pots, no draw.

Pot 1: USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Trinidad and Tobago, Guatemala, Panama, Honduras, Jamaica, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Canada, El Salvador, St. Kitts and Nevis

Pot 2: Cuba, Bermuda, Surinam, Nicaragua, Haiti, Barbados, Grenada, Dominican Republic, St. Lucia, Belize, Antigua and Barbuda, Guyana

Matches:

USA - Guyana
Mexico - Antigua and Barbuda
Costa Rica - Belize
Trinidad and Tobago - St. Lucia
Guatemala - Dominican Republic
Panama - Grenada
Honduras - Barbados
Jamaica - Haiti
St. Vincent and the Grenadines - Nicaragua
Canada - Surinam
El Salvador - Bermuda
St. Kitts and Nevis - Cuba

Semifinal round

12 winners from the previous round
3 groups of 4 teams
Again, no draw.

USA
Mexico
Costa Rica
Trinidad and Tobago
Guatemala
Panama
Honduras
Jamaica
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Canada
El Salvador
Cuba

Group 1: USA (8), Panama (78), Honduras (41), Cuba (75)
Group 2: Mexico (5), Guatemala (56), Jamaica (42), El Salvador (124)
Group 3: Costa Rica (21), Trinidad and Tobago (50), St. Vincent and the Grenadines (130), Canada (84)

Final round

Winners and runners-up from the semifinal round

USA
Mexico
Costa Rica
Honduras
Jamaica
Trinidad and Tobago

Last edited by _Edgar_; January 5th, 2006 at 13:36.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old April 5th, 2006, 17:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaetan
The CONCACAF system is wrong and tops my list of things Iíd like FIFA to change. Not only does it show a lack of respect towards our football, but it just isnít fair. It leaves the teams little room for error, itís not as if the players have much chemistry and should already know how to play with each other. How can you expect a team to play up to their potential when you call them up every couple of months or so, give them 2-3 days at most to train together? Thatís ridiculous and it needs to change as soon as these World Cup Qualifiers are over.

Of course, the CONCACAF has more teams in their region like UEFA (Europe) and CONMEBOL (South America) but that doesnít change anything at all. Why not have one large group and the top three teams make the cut for the World Cup? This knock-out phase starting from the get-go is boneheaded.

Basically, I just want the system changed to how CONMEBOL runís it. Fair and simple, I donít give a crap if weíve got 35 teams. At the very least they could divide it into more then one group, something can be figured out for it to be better IMO.

Please, feel free post your thoughts on this topic.

The teams is Concacaf are Not quality teams, and having three teams
plus a possible fourth from the playoff route is too much. Concacaf
should only have two automatic berths until the quailty of football
inproves over here. Lets face it Mexcio and the United States are
not going to win the World Cup any time soon are are there for the
ride, nothing else.
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