The BIG debate: Should Rehhagel stay? - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 00:45 Thread Starter
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The BIG debate: Should Rehhagel stay?

Right after the match against Denmark, the President of the Greek FA Mr Vasilis Gagatsis stated that despite the failure to qualify for the World Cup, Rehhagel has been offered a new contract till 2008. Which means that if he accepts it, he will be in the guide of the national team for the Qualifiers of the European Championship of 2008. Rehhagel commented that his only future is the game against Georgia, and he will discuss about it after the Qualifiers are over.

I've been listening to several radio shows, and the majority of the fans seem to want him to stay.

My personal opinion, is that it is time for Rehhagel to close his circle in the national team. Despite being a genuinely good coach, who was able to turn Greece from a bunch of underachievers into European Champions, his stubborness and refuse for change undermined out qualification for the WC, which ultimately lead to our failure. If I thought that there was the slightest possibility he would change and started calling up new faces, refresh the team's style of play and generally move on... I would definitely want him to stay. But Rehhagel is 65 years old and a man who won't listen to anyone. During the qualifications, at times it seemed that he kept playing some players from pure reactionism to the press and the fans wish. No matter how stubborn he was, I cannot fathom that a man who has been a football coach his entire life could not see that players like Basinas and Vryzas were not up to it. His refusal to even consider players like Stoltidis, or his insistance on not reneweing the line up with players who were on form like Kafes and Salpigidis did not make sense. Can he change? Can he see that this team needs to open a new circle and move on? In my opinion... that is unlikely. As such, it is time for him to go not because he is not a good coach, but because I'm afraid that if he remains, we'll still see the same faces and the same tactics.

So let's fill up the stadium against Georgia, let Rehhagel field the players who played at the Euro, let's applaud them till our hands bleed... and let's move on.

What do you guys think? Should he stay or should he go?
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 00:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
Which means that if he accepts it, he will be in the guide of the national team for the Qualifiers of the European Championship of 2008.
Quick questions - aren't you guys ALREADY qualified to the next European Championship as current titleholders? At least this is how it used to be

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 00:58 Thread Starter
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Nope, not anymore.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 02:24
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I totally agree, the team was being chosen by name and a reputation basis rather then by the actual current form players. This has to end because it defeats the purpose of a national team, which is the best of the best of what a country has to offer...and these WC Qualifiers Rehaggel should've slowly molded in some new faces into the squad and slowly into the starting line up...I too have a massive respect for Otto Rehaggel and he will always be remembered for what he achieved, but as far as im concerned our National Team is above Otto Rehaggel and to be quite frank we are endangering the next generation of footballers of Greece if he is allowed to stay because of his refusal to show interest in youth.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 11:53
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OK let's assume that Otto doesn't stay...
WHO is capable of replacing him;
Otto did a fantastic work, I'm not talking about the 2004 succcess only.
He made the players feel like a family and respect the jersey of this f*cking team.
I don't know if anyone else is capable of doing the same.
Of course there is always the possibility that after the 2004 success players will act defferent even withough Otto on the wheel.
And I'm asking again...
WHO will replace him;
I'd say Otto must stay.
Reebuild the team and everything is gonna be alright.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 12:14
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Otto and this teams cycle has ended.I want bajevic or hiddink.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 12:27 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Saravakos-13
OK let's assume that Otto doesn't stay...
WHO is capable of replacing him?
Although Bajevic is a great coach, I think he would be a bad option simply because it would divide the country in two. Although I've never heard a player who isn't called Rivaldo say a bad word about him, Bajevic's status is too questionable to be handed the NT. He's good enough, no doubt, but he carries too much stuff with him.

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Rebuild the team and everything is gonna be alright.
But is Otto going to do that? Is he going to change his mind? Will he tell several players that they must retire?
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2005, 23:14
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Yeah I was sure about the Bajevic thing.
I don't think he can handle the NT...
If he is the chosen one though...........................
Everything is gonna change.
The team will try to play way more offensive ect.
I'll stay with Otto.
He is the only one who can handle that team.
And yes AMOROSO Otto will do the changes, I'm sure that if he stay will change a lot of things.
He knows that the team needs to be rebuild he is not stupid or something.
He wanted the guys who won the EURO to be the ones that will lead the team in the WC.
As a ''thank you and goodbye'' to them.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old October 10th, 2005, 00:20
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I think Otto doesnt have to go, but I think he should. Personally AMO I think youve been totallyy unfair to the man. One year ago he did something that should have never happen. He got the Greek NT to play like a team. Not a bunch of baby primadonnas who cry and pout when they play bad and subsequently lose 5-1. He then did something I thought I would never see... EVER. He won a major international tournament.

Now I think its totally disingenious to force the man out -- its typical Greek thinking to blame the coach for the shortcomings of the players. Its not Rehhagels fault that players like Charisteas and Vryzas lost their abilities in one summer. Its not Rehhagels fault that the midfield cant string two passes together. Its not Rehhagel's fault that Salp, Gkekas, Pap dont have the experience and kotsia to make an impact against high quality international opposition. Its not Rehhagels fault that Nikopolidis cant have a game for the NT without an error that not only has disasterous results but also makes you want to eat your hat. Its not Rehhagel's fault that Fyssas is a hack and that there is absolutely no other Greek player that can play lb better.

Its sad. We simply dont have the talent. We hit a good spell for about two months where we played our asses off and everything went right. We overachieved. It wasnt lucky, the players simply hit their max potential at the right time.


Now are there things Otto could have done differently? Sure. Should he have called Stoltidis? Yes (even though none of us have the slightest idea why he hasnt been called up -- so the man could be completely right in his decision... maybe Stoltidis is a complete asshole in the lockeroom and the players hate him? maybe hes not professional enough and is lazy in training? who knows). Should Basinas have played? No. Should Vyntra and Gkekas be in the team? No.

I think we should replace Otto with someone who can carry on the tradition of proffesionalism and team work that Otto has instilled. Thats why Bajevic would be a terrible coach for this team. Thats why we need an outsider, like a Hiddink.

In the end Otto should be allowed to leave the team in a dignified manner and not forced out.






Last edited by g00nis; October 10th, 2005 at 00:25.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old October 10th, 2005, 15:23
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It's a shame that the first manager that takes the Greece NT and knocks heads together, gets rid of the prima donnas and delivers a top trophy (one not won by England despite qualify for every tournament), the talk is of getting rid of him.

Any new coach will have to be tough so that Greece does not degenerate into old habits. A couple of sloppy games v Albania (a) , v Ukraine (h) , v Turkey (h) have resulted in the current situation.

Otto should stay smf start to blood some new players.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old October 10th, 2005, 23:12 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00nis
Personally AMO I think youve been totallyy unfair to the man. One year ago he did something that should have never happen. He got the Greek NT to play like a team. Not a bunch of baby primadonnas who cry and pout when they play bad and subsequently lose 5-1. He then did something I thought I would never see... EVER. He won a major international tournament.
1 year after... A most humiliating experience at the Confederations Cup (but fair enough), he undermined our chances for entering the WC by being a stubborn, senile old man. Otto has been saved from critique exactly because of his past achievement... everyone was saying, me included, that you know, give him some time, he'll turn it around, he's a great coach, we'll talk in the end... well the end is here, shouldn't he at some point shoulder the responsibility for the PATHETIC NT we have at the moment? Because in my mind, there is no doubt that excluding the likes of Lichtenstain, Khazakstan, Malta etc. etc. we are the worse team in Europe right now.

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Now I think its totally disingenious to force the man out -- its typical Greek thinking to blame the coach for the shortcomings of the players. Its not Rehhagels fault that players like Charisteas and Vryzas lost their abilities in one summer.
He's not to fault for Vryzas and Charisteas being crap, he's blamed for KEEPING PLAYING THEM!

Not to mention that he didn't make clear what every other NT coach does... No club action, No NT. Which other serious NT has 5-6 players in their starting line up game in game out who do nothing but scratch their balls the entire year? If Otto applied this rule, Basinas would not be so anal about moving to Feyenoord or Birmingham; Dellas, who never stopped whining about how bad the Greek league is, would have taken one of the offers available to him instead of going for a semi-holiday at AEK; Karagounis would have fvcked off Inter years ago and Tavlaridis and Amanatidis would not waste their time on the bench of crap teams because of disputes with their coaches.

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Its not Rehhagels fault that the midfield cant string two passes together.
The midfield can't string two passes together because the players consisting it are out of form and THEY ARE STILL PLAYING. Basinas has been in the line up for EVERY SINGLE ****ING GAME!

Never mind that, don't you think there should be some attacking plan instead of hoooooooofing the ball up all the time? Was that the players' choice?

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Its not Rehhagel's fault that Salp, Gkekas, Pap dont have the experience and kotsia to make an impact against high quality international opposition.
How are these three to blame when all they get is maybe 10 minutes at the end of the game chasing long balls?

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Its not Rehhagels fault that Nikopolidis cant have a game for the NT without an error that not only has disasterous results but also makes you want to eat your hat. Its not Rehhagel's fault that Fyssas is a hack and that there is absolutely no other Greek player that can play lb better.
Fair enough, about these two he could do nothing.

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Its sad. We simply dont have the talent. We hit a good spell for about two months where we played our asses off and everything went right. We overachieved. It wasnt lucky, the players simply hit their max potential at the right time.
We don't have the talent to win the Euro again. But we do have the talent to finish 2nd in the Qualifying group. We do have the talent to beat Albania and Ukraine!

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In the end Otto should be allowed to leave the team in a dignified manner and not forced out.
Which is why he should leave NOW. His contract ends, he failed to take us to the WC, he is 289 years old and the people still love him (me included)... what better time for him to go home? ANY other coach would have been sacked at the half-time of the game against Khazakstan (and rightly so).
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 01:37
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At first the media said the Georgia game was going to be his last, now I am hearing he will accept the offer and coach during the Euro qualifications also!!

Last edited by Christos7; October 11th, 2005 at 01:44.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 01:53 Thread Starter
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I just hope the older players see the light and retire. Vryzas, Zagorakis, Fyssas, Kapsis should all stop their career with the NT and some other people like Basinas and perhaps Dellas and Charisteas (though I strongly believe they are important players for us) should be left out till they find form. It's imperative that players like Kafes, Kyrgiakos, Papadopoulos, Salpiggidis and even Samaras become important members of the team. Even Tavlaridis and Amanatidis if they pull their heads off their asses.

Not forgetting the consistenly excellent for their clubs Stoltidis and Antzas.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 02:52
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Whos he going to replace these players with Amo? We are Greece not Italy. We have zero depth when it comes to talent. Right now there simply arent enough top class Greek players out there. Especially strikers. Hes pretty much tried everyone short of Choutos and Machlas. About the attacking plan... havent you noticed that every time we try to play a crisp short-passing game that someone makes an errant pass or that someone miscontrols the ball. Have you noticed that when swe try to play a holding game that our players simply dont have the skill to get by defenders. We arent a team that has the quality to hold the ball and make plays consistently. Our only chance to win is to hoof the ball or through a long counter through ball.

We should have beaten Ukraine and Albania, but thats more on the players. We lost those games because of mistakes and lost chances, not on poor coaching.





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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 03:10 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00nis
Whos he going to replace these players with Amo? We are Greece not Italy. We have zero depth when it comes to talent. Right now there simply arent enough top class Greek players out there. Especially strikers. Hes pretty much tried everyone short of Choutos and Machlas.
He has tried NOONE! Only Vryzas and Charisteas. Just because he calls them up, it doesn't mean he's playing them. When was the last time anyone apart from Charisteas and Vryzas had a full-game? When was the last time we played a proper through ball to one of our fast strikers instead of having them chase long balls?

Find someone to play LB, put Kyrgiakos and Dellas/Whoever in central defence, Katsouranis/Stoltidis as defencive midfielder with Kafes and Karagounis next to him, Giannakopoulos and Salpiggidis/Papadopoulos as forwards and Samaras or Charisteas up front. A fine side. Just needs bit of tuning and you have a much better team than that of the Euro.

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About the attacking plan... havent you noticed that every time we try to play a crisp short-passing game that someone makes an errant pass or that someone miscontrols the ball. Have you noticed that when swe try to play a holding game that our players simply dont have the skill to get by defenders. We arent a team that has the quality to hold the ball and make plays consistently.
Sure we are. Except to do that you need to have players who can pass the ball around in midfield, like Kafes, and also players in attack who can actually run after a through ball. I mean, what is the point of making a through ball to Vryzas?

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Our only chance to win is to hoof the ball or through a long counter through ball.
Bullsh!t. We didn't win the Euro that way. We weren't even PLAYING that way till after the Euro.

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We should have beaten Ukraine and Albania, but thats more on the players. We lost those games because of mistakes and lost chances, not on poor coaching.
So when we win it's down to Rehhagel, when we loose is down to the players? If he didn't play crap players, they wouldn't make so many mistakes.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 04:08
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Vryzas (33), Zagorakis (34), Kapsis (32), Fyssas (32), will all be gone next qualifying, except MAYBE Zagorakis. (although he should step aside....) Another mention is Nikopolidis (34) who should most like go.


In defence we must find a LB to replace Fyssas. Personally, I cannot think of one. Who can fill the position? Lets hear some names.... Now in the center, Kyrgiakos (26) will replace Kapsis. Dellas (29) will stay. Giourka at RB (24). Katsouranis (26) can play either defence (him and Kyrgiakos with Dellas behind) or in midfield. Basinas (29) can still be apart of this team as long as he finds a team, starts playing and gets in form. He is still a useful player. Stoltidis can also be called up, but keep in mind he is now 30 years old.... the time to call him was this campaign, he was BADLY needed. I would actually prefer maybe getting Taralidis (24) or Tziolis (20) / Darlas (20) into the mix. (what position do those two play exactly? Is Darlas a LB? Tzioli I believe is a DM, he looked like a very good player) Giannakopoulos (31) and Karagounis (28) are main players in midfield. We must find some younger players to go along with them. Problem is I can't think of to many as far as offensive midfielders. What position exactly is Lagos? What about Theodoridis? Amanatidis can play midfield/attack, he should be a primary feature in Ottos next squad. Mantzios hopefully will get a run. Charisteas will always be there. I have never seen Samaras play personally, but if he is as good as the hype, he should be in the squad easily. In goal, we have Sifakis (21) who I have been impressed with, also Kotsolis (25?) and Giannou (23) as options to take over.


Lets hear some names and discuss younger players. Thats what this team needs. New blood to be groomed. No matter who the next coach is.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 11:57
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Vryzas
Charisteas
Zagorakis
Kapsis
Fyssas

Must stay out of the team''Charisteas till he finds his form''
We have plenty of strikers anyway.
We have players who can replace the 2004 guys.
The only problem is on the LB.
We don't have any...
The only guy I can think of is Darlas, but I don't think he is ready for the NT.
Lagos must be called in the senior team.
He can play anywhere in the left side.
And I'd like to see Giannakopoulos back in his original position, with Lagos from the left.
That thing with Karagounis as a winger is pretty anoying.
''Panathinaikos used to use him there too sometimes''
He can play there but he doesn't give 100% of what he can.

---------------------Nikopolidis

Seitaridis-----Kyrgiakos------------*Dellas--------Darlas
---------------------*Katsouranis


Giannakopoulos-------Karagounis--------------Lagos

-----------Lyberopoulos--------Salpigidis
-----------''Samaras''----------''Papadopoulos,Gekas,Mantzios''

*We can also play with Dellas as a sweeper and Katsouranis as a defender.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 15:40
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Rehhagel must stay 2-3 years more and create a new form for the team of the next 10 years.There are several talented players to be parts of the new team and they need a personality like the German to put them in the right way.
Leontiou,Tziolis,Darlas,Matzios,Pappas,Lagos,Samar as,Amanatidis (i surely forget some),along with the existing experienced ones (Stellios,Karagounis,Dellas,Giourkas,Kyrgiakos,Sal pigidis,Anatolakis,Kafes,Lymbe) could create a strong team,that in my opinion is gonna be able of great things in the future.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 19:31
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At left back we have Venetidis (I think he's 28,29) who already had a spot before he was injured and is good defensively. Venetidis would keep the seat warm for darlas who is younger and a better technical players than Venetidis and with more experience he'll be a complete player.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2005, 21:01 Thread Starter
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Yes, Venetidis of course will take a place when he recovers. But he's going from injury to injury. And to be honest, his latest performances for the NT were pathetic. I mean, he's clearly a better player than Fyssas, but noone doubted that Fyssas should be the one who starts.
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