League Remodelling: Proposal rejected - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: Which format do you support ?
Proposition Herman Wijnants 1 1 10.00%
Proposition Herman Wijnants 2 0 0%
Proposition Roger Van den Stock 0 0%
Proposition Roland Duchatelet 0 0%
Proposition 16 - 1 2 20.00%
Proposition 16 - 2 0 0%
No Reformation 5 50.00%
I have my own proposition 2 20.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 15:18 Thread Starter
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League Remodelling: Proposal rejected

The Dutch advice agency Hypercube has given their points the the 6 propositions to reform the Belgian league. All of these formulas got more points then the current concept, but the final formula will propably still look different. An overview of the propositions:
  • Proposition Herman Wijnants 1: Autumn league with two divisions of 12 clubs - Spring league with 3 divisions of 8 (4 teams relegating and going up)
  • Proposition Herman Wijnants 2: Autumn and spring league with 2 divisions of 10 clubs (5 teams relegating and going up)
  • Proposition Roger Van den Stock: League format with playoffs
  • Proposition Roland Duchatelet: Autumn league with 18 teams, spring league with 12 teams
  • Proposition 16 - 1: League with 16 teams without playoffs
  • Proposition 16 - 2: League with 16 teams where the best 8 face eachother an extra time
Which plan has your preference ? Or how would you reform the Belgian League ?

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 15:27 Thread Starter
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I support the Proposition 16 - 1 the most of all, but I'm not sure this will help making our league stronger. It's true that the big pot of TV revenues will be separated between less clubs, but I'm also sure that no matter who will pay around €36 million again for the TV titles. Partly because there are less games in this format (30 instead of 34).

Personally I'd like to see a league model with 10, like in Scotland some years ago, with each team facing each other 4 times.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 16:13
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No reformation

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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 20:26
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The Scotland version appeals to me the most tbh

http://youtu.be/id5miD_uZDk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg0Re9aBJt4

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 20:33
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Playoffs are too bad, here in Holland no one really likes it, it's simply unfair. After 34 matches, the place you finished in the table is a deserved one... We're not in America, a sports-culture can't be changed from a European to an American one in one year...

About the Scottish format, don't think clubs want to face eachother four times a year, that's too much no? In that case these matches aren't special anymore, it's Brugge-Anderlecht, Anderlecht-Brugge etc etc, now it's a classic match, playing this one four times a year it loses a bit of the specialty I think.

Why's a reformation needed anyway? What are the benefits? Who gave this order to Hypercube, the Belgian FA? What do they want? More excitement? More money? More competition?
Doubt or a reformation will help...
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 20:39
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The original plan-Wynants sounded good imo.

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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 21:22 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoert
Why's a reformation needed anyway? What are the benefits? Who gave this order to Hypercube, the Belgian FA? What do they want? More excitement? More money? More competition?
Doubt or a reformation will help...
In the hope TV companies pay more money to broadcast the Belgian league ... More money to divide = A stronger league.

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old December 3rd, 2007, 22:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue @ngel
No reformation
I agree

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old December 7th, 2007, 16:13
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D1 : 10 teams, last relegates
D2 : 14 teams , winner promotes, last relegates
4 D3 leagues, final four playoffs with the winners of each, 1 promotes
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old December 7th, 2007, 16:18 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Referee
D1 : 10 teams, last relegates
D2 : 14 teams , winner promotes, last relegates
4 D3 leagues, final four playoffs with the winners of each, 1 promotes
Seems interesting.

Maybe more interesting if you tell how to compose those leagues. How should we decide who plays in the D1, D2, etc ? Taking the result of 1 season ? Making a points average of for example 5 seasons ?

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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old December 7th, 2007, 16:47
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Why not mix the performances in the last 5 years with the licence conditions?

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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old December 7th, 2007, 17:25
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I would consider the following criteria:

-performance in the last 5 years
-how the licence conditions were handled
-fan base
-Commercial potential
-a kind of region based limit on teams, f.i. at least one of those 'Waasland' has to disappear. Also a team like Dender is hardly viable and would (if I had my way) simply integrate with Eendracht Aalst, sorta like they are planning to do in Holland.

Basically, I want to stop the influx of small teams like Dender or Roeselare into the top two divisions who should both consist of pro teams only. By only allowing 1 promotion from the third division and second division per year, the teams will have to work on longer term basis and will hence invest in young players instead of buying players, just to promote, since the chances are really slim they actually get a level up.
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old December 7th, 2007, 20:59
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I support expansion of the league to 20 teams.

I am against any form of reducing the number of teams. The league would get extremely boring if there are less than 18 clubs, it is hard enough for smaller clubs to get into the premier division but with 14 or less clubs the smaller clubs would have no chance of promotion left and football would become an elitist thing. So I am against any form of reducing the nr of teams.

On the contrary, I would like an expansion to 20 teams. More games, more chances for new names in the top division. I don't really care about the full calendar of teams in Europe because TBH I think performances in Europe mean nothing compared to having a pleasant domestic league. Good results in Europe mean the fans of 2 or 3 clubs enjoy approx 10 European games a year to look forward to, a good domestic league means weekly entertainment for the fans of 18 (or more) clubs. Reducing the nr of teams to enhance the performances in Europe is totally wrong IMO and would only benefit 2 or maximum 3 clubs while ruining the fun of the supporters of all other teams in the country.

Either no reformation, or either expansion to 20 teams. According to Menzo's poll (not that this is representative) there are more fans supporting expansion than reduction BTW.
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old December 7th, 2007, 21:02
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By the way, good thing that the BeNe league is not included in the poll, because this is totally unrealistic.

UEFA rules say every member must have its own league in order to have a national team (only Liechtenstein is excluded due to lack of clubs) and thus if the leagues of Belgium and Holland merge, we would also need to merge the national teams. BeNe league becomes totally unrealistic when you know that, as I cannot see Belgian or Dutch fans wanting to give up their own national team. A BeNe cup is realistic as the both countries would still keep their own league and follow UEFA rules, but merging the leagues is only possible when merging the FA's and NT's as well.
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old December 8th, 2007, 04:54 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackedpleasures
I am against any form of reducing the number of teams. The league would get extremely boring if there are less than 18 clubs, it is hard enough for smaller clubs to get into the premier division but with 14 or less clubs the smaller clubs would have no chance of promotion left and football would become an elitist thing. So I am against any form of reducing the nr of teams.

On the contrary, I would like an expansion to 20 teams. More games, more chances for new names in the top division. I don't really care about the full calendar of teams in Europe because TBH I think performances in Europe mean nothing compared to having a pleasant domestic league. Good results in Europe mean the fans of 2 or 3 clubs enjoy approx 10 European games a year to look forward to, a good domestic league means weekly entertainment for the fans of 18 (or more) clubs.
The more small teams in the leagues, the less people will buy Belgacom TV / Telenet / Whoever owns the live coverage, the less money the companies will pay for broadcasting Belgian football, the less money clubs get. And that's what all this reformation ideas come from. Clubs want more TV revenues so they can invest in their youth development, transfers. All this in order to increase the interest in our league.

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old December 8th, 2007, 17:39
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Scotland version sucks
Beside Rangers and Celtic
There league isn't better then ours
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old December 8th, 2007, 18:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafc
Scotland version sucks
Beside Rangers and Celtic
There league isn't better then ours
That's why their NT fought Italy and France to the line....
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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old December 8th, 2007, 19:06 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafc
Beside Rangers and Celtic
There league isn't better then ours
The level of our league has fallen down enormously the last couple of years. I assess the level of the Scottish league higher then ours.

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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old December 8th, 2007, 19:30
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for me "no reformations", you won most of the matches you've got many points you are a champions it's simple for me

playoff sucks
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old December 8th, 2007, 20:36
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The level of our league has fallen down enormously the last couple of years. I assess the level of the Scottish league higher then ours.
apart from the Glasgow giants, the average Scottish team would lose to the average Belgian mid-table team. Maybe Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts would survive in the top division in Belgium but then teams like Motherwell and St Mirren would even lose to our bottom teams. If Celtic and Rangers weren't there, Scottish league would be about the level of the Welsh or Northern Irish league.
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