ITT: We discuss nationalised players playing in this tournament - Xtratime Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 00:06 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Filipe Reis's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Location: Sweden
Teams: SPORTING CP & Portugal NT
Posts: 36,665
ITT: We discuss nationalised players playing in this tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano View Post
Its sad for Poland though that their best player was not even Polish (I dont care what anyone says, this guy has nothing to do with Poland apart from play there for a few years).

I think what's even more sad is that there are still people in the 21st century that think like you.

"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.”
Nelson Mandela
Filipe Reis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 00:44
Forum Manager
Legend
 
Mutu's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 16,482
Ok then Felipe, lets just have everyone nationalise themselves to loads of different countries and we'll have Champions League version 2.0.

This is National Team football! Players who play for each team should be that Nationality. ARe you telling me that Guerreiro play for Poland is in any way correct? The guy is Brazillian. lol @ people not being able to comprehend why this is detrimental to NT football.

I might make a separate thread if this topic continues to spill out into all the match threads, actaully.

"a fan of Al-Habsi"
Mutu is offline  
post #3 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 00:53 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Filipe Reis's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Location: Sweden
Teams: SPORTING CP & Portugal NT
Posts: 36,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutu View Post
Ok then Felipe, lets just have everyone nationalise themselves to loads of different countries and we'll have Champions League version 2.0.

This is National Team football! Players who play for each team should be that Nationality. ARe you telling me that Guerreiro play for Poland is in any way correct? The guy is Brazillian. lol @ people not being able to comprehend why this is detrimental to NT football.
Guerreiro has double nationality Brazilian-Polish or else he wouldn't be able to play for Poland. It's actually great that he has been called because that may open the eyes of a few Polish football supporters. Poland is one of the countries in Europe that has a higher rate of racist and xenophobic incidents related with football.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutu View Post
I might make a separate thread if this topic continues to spill out into all the match threads, actaully.
Yes, I think that's a great idea. Like that maybe we will be able to have people actually discussing about the game instead of spewing the type of crap that we've seen in any single game thread so far.

"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.”
Nelson Mandela
Filipe Reis is offline  
 
post #4 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 01:00
Administrators
Xtratime Elite
 
Osman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2000
Location: Uppsala, Sverige
Teams: Juve
Posts: 51,822
Would normally agree with you on the principle of the issue (anyone questioning regular immigrants like Germany's poles are bullshitting), but you gotta be kidding me with this brazilian. He was just super quickly neautralized 2 months ago, personally so by the Polish president himself.

Its basically like Poland is a club that signed a player just before the transfer window ends. Its a complicated issue in general, with nuances, but this case is pretty straight forward. He is not anywhere near like other cases bigots pick on, not even close to it.

I will fight to the death for my right to fight you to the death. - Stephen Colbert

Until the Lion learns to speak, the tale of hunt will be told by the hunter

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”-Genghis Khan
Osman is offline  
post #5 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 01:02
Forum Manager
Legend
 
Mutu's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 16,482
ITT: We discuss nationalised players playing in this tournament

...because it's spilling out into other threads and hindering the discussion of matches. It's been done to death but it's still causes quite conflicting opinions.

Basically, you're wrong Felipe

"a fan of Al-Habsi"
Mutu is offline  
post #6 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 01:04 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Filipe Reis's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Location: Sweden
Teams: SPORTING CP & Portugal NT
Posts: 36,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutu View Post
...because it's spilling out into other threads and hindering the discussion of matches. It's been done to death but it's still causes quite conflicting opinions.

Basically, you're wrong Felipe
Thanks for the thread

"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.”
Nelson Mandela
Filipe Reis is offline  
post #7 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 01:05 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Filipe Reis's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Location: Sweden
Teams: SPORTING CP & Portugal NT
Posts: 36,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osman View Post
Would normally agree with you on the principle of the issue (anyone questioning regular immigrants like Germany's poles are bullshitting), but you gotta be kidding me with this brazilian. He was just super quickly neautralized 2 months ago, personally so by the Polish president himself.

Its basically like Poland is a club that signed a player just before the transfer window ends. Its a complicated issue in general, with nuances, but this case is pretty straight forward. He is not anywhere near like other cases bigots pick on, not even close to it.
Can you please explain why doesn't he have the same right to play for Poland as any of the other Polish players?

"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.”
Nelson Mandela
Filipe Reis is offline  
post #8 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 01:07
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
Inácio's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Portugal
Teams: SL Benfica
Posts: 24,633
he's a gold digger, and not even a pretty one

"there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in"

"rocks on my path? i keep them all , one day i'll build a castle"
Inácio is offline  
post #9 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 01:47
IVO
International
World Class Player
 
IVO's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 1999
Posts: 8,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osman View Post
Would normally agree with you on the principle of the issue (anyone questioning regular immigrants like Germany's poles are bullshitting), but you gotta be kidding me with this brazilian. He was just super quickly neautralized 2 months ago, personally so by the Polish president himself.

Its basically like Poland is a club that signed a player just before the transfer window ends. Its a complicated issue in general, with nuances, but this case is pretty straight forward. He is not anywhere near like other cases bigots pick on, not even close to it.
Germany's Poles are immigrants? You western nut huggers are a joke. When teams like France, Germany and Italy (Camo) have foreigners play for them there's always a valid reason but when somebody else does it's an issue? France wouldn't qualify if they never had colonies but that's okay. Germany couldnt' score a goal if it wasn't a foreigner but that's okay. Poland has a Brazilian and that's out of line! Western Europe is a joke!
IVO is offline  
post #10 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 02:14
Rising Star
 
Join Date: 06 2006
Posts: 395
are you trolling every euro thread?
Leinad is offline  
post #11 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 02:44
Administrators
Xtratime Elite
 
Osman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2000
Location: Uppsala, Sverige
Teams: Juve
Posts: 51,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVO View Post
Poland has a Brazilian and that's out of line! Western Europe is a joke!
Firstly, you arent reacting like this defensively because it may indirectly relate to Eduardo too, I hope?


But nontheless, on the issue, it cant get any simpler then even if they both legally have the same rights, that I see a clear difference from this guy being handed a passport 2 months before the euro just to play, and the likes of Klose or Benzema who are born and bredd in their countries.

You see the same difference, I hope?

I will fight to the death for my right to fight you to the death. - Stephen Colbert

Until the Lion learns to speak, the tale of hunt will be told by the hunter

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”-Genghis Khan
Osman is offline  
post #12 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 02:51
Forum Manager
International
 
Majstor Cevapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2006
Location: Seattle
Teams: Bosna i Hercegovina, VFL Bochum, FK Sarajevo, AS Roma.
Posts: 5,747
I think where your parents and grandparents are from make you what you are. My parents and grandparents were all born in Bosnia, but I was born in Zagreb (spent 11 days there). I consider myself a Bosnian above all, and I don't consider myself anything else. I don't think it's right for a Brazilian to play for any other country then Brazil, same goes for any other nationality. When playing for a NT you should be proud of it, and you should have something that connects you with it. Playing there doesn't count.

Eduardo is a prime case, I don't blame him for taking the chance of a lifetime, and choosing to play for Croatia, same could be said with any NT. But at the end there is nothing to be proud about when cheering on your own NT full of foreigners.(in general, not Croatia)

Ja sam Bosnjak - dican junak:
Vjeran svetom domu svome,
Vjeran slavi svojih djeda
I narodu Bosanskome!

Njegov ponos na mom srcu
Ko amanet sveti stoji;
Ponos koji nigdje ne da,
da se Bosnjak lava boji!...
Majstor Cevapa is offline  
post #13 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 05:05
Premier Player
 
Join Date: 11 2002
Posts: 2,365
I think If you had at least one grandparent born in X country, or were born there yourself (obviously) you should be eligible to play for that country. All this nonsense about Brazilians and given citizenship quickly to play for national teams is nonsense. I mean honestly guys. It's going to turn into who will pay the most. It will loose all national spirit. It will become like club football.
Christos7 is offline  
post #14 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 05:29
Forum Manager
International
 
Majstor Cevapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2006
Location: Seattle
Teams: Bosna i Hercegovina, VFL Bochum, FK Sarajevo, AS Roma.
Posts: 5,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos7 View Post
I think If you had at least one grandparent born in X country, or were born there yourself (obviously) you should be eligible to play for that country. All this nonsense about Brazilians and given citizenship quickly to play for national teams is nonsense. I mean honestly guys. It's going to turn into who will pay the most. It will loose all national spirit. It will become like club football.
It's already becoming club football. I'm not racist, but I'm tired of people without any connection to X country getting on national team.

Ja sam Bosnjak - dican junak:
Vjeran svetom domu svome,
Vjeran slavi svojih djeda
I narodu Bosanskome!

Njegov ponos na mom srcu
Ko amanet sveti stoji;
Ponos koji nigdje ne da,
da se Bosnjak lava boji!...
Majstor Cevapa is offline  
post #15 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 05:44
Honourable Mention, October 2011 Photo Contest
Legend
 
Fangio's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2003
Posts: 18,041
I think generally allways are discussed the wrong issues...

As principle every NT should use those who are born in the country, looks better, more suitable, more natural to the spirit NT competitins were created.

Later I think every grown up can decide by his own if he wants to represent another country, I don't see anything not legal about it, not even questionable in a general view...

Later I can agree or not with players wanting to play for another country instead the one of their origin, BUT is not enough to consider my disagreement, to view these actions as wrong...

So at the end of the day, I don't think ethnic background, chauvinistic national pride, or other reasons are the ones that make me feel this situations are wrong, or better like I've said, not likeable...

What I feel is that allways, because is not a new policy, if the trend gets more massive, kills a little bit the amateur approach that still lives in the NTs competitions and the pride that comes of a certain region of the world, to represent more or less a way of playing, an style...

I can live with Camo thinking he should play for Italy because he felt he was not respected by his NT, even though I do not endorse it...way worse was Monti, Orsi and cia in the 30s...but is up to them to change colours...will happen whenever we like or not and is not that outraegous.

I can live with the brazie fella playing for Poland being a grown up decission and legally correctly, but I do not endorse that his place can't be use by at least by a young Polish player to make his experience.

Mainly because I feel (I can't be sure of course) the main reason of uisng the brazie (like in many cases) is for the NEED of results NOW; now this brazie fella plays better than any other polish kid, there is no time it seems to wait for an original talent to start his path or respect a fella that even being worse than the Brazie, certainly can feel betrayed by not receiving his chance...

Let's remember this is not Pro football, this should work like a bubble of amateurism, using pro players...but I guess is that precisly existing a big ammount of money surrounding NTs competitions that this policies are quite common.

I can live with with many specially African orginally or caribean players, while being grown up chossing to play for Powerfull countries where they made their football carreers, but I do not endorse the message that says that they do it as gratitude for this country in all of the cases.

While will be really more helpfull if this powers after the savage behaviour they did in many of these countries help to develope within their own frontiers a football NT that can be the pride of those nations...

I preffer ten times a Milla or Etoo holding to their NTs as an example to their country players, than the constant snatch at very young ages of little africans or lately too SA boys to later say: "hey they lived all their lifes in this ... country" is correct for them to play for them...of course is correct and legal after years and them becoming grown ups, but why since very young almost pushing them in that way?

Finally I do not think is right to offer NT places in Youth cathegories to players at a very young age. While at the end of the day only ONE objective seems to rule this "adquisitions" by any Euro club: increase the value in the market of teh youngster while obtaining the passport of the nation involve...

I do not think endorse or not the decissions of grown ups, with no real past experiences guiding them to play to a certain Powerfull NT, is sthg should, or better MUST be avoid, that will continue happening if we like or not...

But when scouts chase and collect possible "pearls" around the globe at very young ages, hardly helping to develope the game in those countries and later nationalizing them with a bussiness approach...I'm totally against..no matter if many of the parents of these kiddos permit it...FIFA, UEFA CONEMBOL and whomever should apply several laws that are treated in a very elastic ways.

"De cada 10 personas que ven televisión...5 son la mitad"
Fangio is offline  
post #16 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 05:58
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 53,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majstor Cevapa View Post
I think where your parents and grandparents are from make you what you are.
my parents and grandparents are from Hungary, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Serbia and/or Croatia. add to that some jewish part. now what does that make me?
I consider myself 100% Hungarian although I am born in Germany. I am also a honourable brazilian for some reasons.

now tell me, for which NT could I play (if I were any good)?

szövkap is offline  
post #17 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 06:06
Forum Manager
International
 
Majstor Cevapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2006
Location: Seattle
Teams: Bosna i Hercegovina, VFL Bochum, FK Sarajevo, AS Roma.
Posts: 5,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by szövkap View Post
my parents and grandparents are from Hungary, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Serbia and/or Croatia. add to that some jewish part. now what does that make me?
I consider myself 100% Hungarian although I am born in Germany. I am also a honourable brazilian for some reasons.

now tell me, for which NT could I play (if I were any good)?
Seven different countries, wow man you screwed me on this one. Look, that one would be up to you, you would have some sort of relation to the country you played for. If this Brazilian fellow had had one grandparent that was even a third polish, then there would be nothing "morally" wrong with it. When your parents are from 10 different countries it is up to you to choose which one you can most relate to, and which one you love the most.

For example you being of all these different ethnicities and choosing to play for Hungary. Most people think of themselves as whatever there parents are. If each is from a different country, then again it is your choice on which to play for.

At the end, a Brazilian playing for Poland doesn't make any sense, apart from trying to get some international interest.

Ja sam Bosnjak - dican junak:
Vjeran svetom domu svome,
Vjeran slavi svojih djeda
I narodu Bosanskome!

Njegov ponos na mom srcu
Ko amanet sveti stoji;
Ponos koji nigdje ne da,
da se Bosnjak lava boji!...

Last edited by Majstor Cevapa; June 9th, 2008 at 06:14.
Majstor Cevapa is offline  
post #18 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 06:34
Rising Star
 
Radu's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2003
Location: Canada
Teams: Romania NT
Posts: 605
Romania should send some scouts to Brazil and scout our "Latin brothers" for our national team.
Radu is offline  
post #19 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 07:43
MVP
Forum Manager
World Class Player
 
Rhizoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2003
Location: Arabian Gulf
Teams: Juventus, Lebanon, Italy
Posts: 8,979
Blog Entries: 2
Yeah this seems to be spilling into every match thread.

I said earlier, such cases are inevitable.

The problem arises when a NT actively searches for such recruits.

Don't lament the treachery of time;
long have dogs danced over the carcasses of lions.

Don't suppose that their dancing raises them above their masters;
for dogs remain dogs, and lions remain lions.

Insult me as you wish;
For my silence to the depraved is a response.

It's not that I have no response, but;
A lion does not reply to a dog.
Rhizoid is offline  
post #20 of 264 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2008, 08:59 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Filipe Reis's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Location: Sweden
Teams: SPORTING CP & Portugal NT
Posts: 36,665
@ Fangio:

Your post is excellent and I agree with practically every bit of it.

The problem of people that have a beef against the quick nationalisations of professional footballers with no ancestry links with their adopted country is that they still cannot accept the simple fact that National Team football is no longer played in the spirit that used to be played in the past.

Football is a multimillion industry completely integrated in the capitalist system, ie it demands only one thing and nothing but that - RESULTS. As long as this is the spirit prevailing in today's game, be it at club level or at NT level, this trend will not stop.

"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.”
Nelson Mandela
Filipe Reis is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome