Who do you want to be Israelīs next coach? - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: Who do want as Israeli NT coach?
Avram Grant 1 11.11%
Eli Gutman 4 44.44%
Eyal Berkovic 1 11.11%
Luis Fernandez 0 0%
Reuven Atar 2 22.22%
Elisha Levi 0 0%
Moti Ivanir 0 0%
Other (Israeli coach) 0 0%
Other (Foreign Coach) 1 11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2011, 23:39 Thread Starter
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Who do you want to be Israelīs next coach?

IFA chairman Avi Luzon will have a meeting tommorow with Luis Fernandez to discuss the campaign and to communicate the probable dismissal of the Frenchman at the helm of the Israeli NT. As mentioned in other threads Israel finished in third place, with poor form and almost no fight for a qualification spot.

Some names have been rumoured in the press as strong candidates to susbtitute Luis Fernandez. Experienced Avram Grant who already coached the NT from 2002-2006 and that later made his way to coach in England including a Champions League final with Chelsea is hot name for many IFA members.
Other strong candidate is former Hapoel Tel Aviv coach Eli Gutman who managed to win the double with the reds and have good Europa League run and qualifing the team for the Champions League Group Stage.

Other names such as Eyal Berkovic, Eli Ohana, Reuven Atar have been ventilated while the foreign coach option has not been discarded as well, even Jewish and former Argentinian NT coach Jose Pekerman has been mentioned by some journalists and fans as a good name.

Who do you guys want to see coaching the NT in the next campaign and who do you guys believe is the best candidate for the moment?

Last edited by berko; October 11th, 2011 at 23:45.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old October 12th, 2011, 04:01
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Originally Posted by berko View Post
IFA chairman Avi Luzon will have a meeting tommorow with Luis Fernandez to discuss the campaign and to communicate the probable dismissal of the Frenchman at the helm of the Israeli NT. As mentioned in other threads Israel finished in third place, with poor form and almost no fight for a qualification spot.

Some names have been rumoured in the press as strong candidates to susbtitute Luis Fernandez. Experienced Avram Grant who already coached the NT from 2002-2006 and that later made his way to coach in England including a Champions League final with Chelsea is hot name for many IFA members.
Other strong candidate is former Hapoel Tel Aviv coach Eli Gutman who managed to win the double with the reds and have good Europa League run and qualifing the team for the Champions League Group Stage.

Other names such as Eyal Berkovic, Eli Ohana, Reuven Atar have been ventilated while the foreign coach option has not been discarded as well, even Jewish and former Argentinian NT coach Jose Pekerman has been mentioned by some journalists and fans as a good name.

Who do you guys want to see coaching the NT in the next campaign and who do you guys believe is the best candidate for the moment?
I see Guttman as the coach, its already been said that he will be the next coach by Luzon. I would like to see Reuven Atar, he has always done a good job wherever he has been. I like Pekerman, but I think its preferable that we have a coach that can communicate with the players...
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old October 12th, 2011, 07:57
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Gutman or Grant are the lead choices. I am pretty split between the two choices. I wasn't a huge Grant supporter when he was in charge, but playing for draws against the top teams and making sure you beat the teams you are supposed to beat would have qualified us for both tourneys (at least for the playoffs) Grant is known how he will handle the NT, and is a bigger name, Gutman is more speculative, but I think will be the better choice in the long run.
I just really hope Luzon doesnt do something stupid and keep LF. He needs to be fired ASAP. If Estonia can qualify for the playoffs, there is no reason that we shouldnt be able to qualify a the minimum once every 3-5 cycles.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old October 12th, 2011, 20:28
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Since Grant had a try ...its hard to say if they want to take him back again.... i know that ever since he left Israel he did have a really good run with Chelsea and England..but he isnt wanted anywhere anymore...he was a one hit wonder...but did well with them none the less....

Guttmann seems like a good candidate and i think they will take him.

The concern that I have is that we keep switching coaches very often...... in only 9 years we had 4 coaches..... in 8 years prior to that we had only 1...and with 4 (or 3) qualifications, we went from 2nd last to a playoff spot........

You cant have inconsistancy and make new teams every game....we need chemistry and ways to deal with both weak opponent and a strong opponent....i do agree that playing a team like Malta or Latvia may allow us to field a team we normally would put for a friendly...but we need to always keep the same players and have them get along with each others formalities....

LF wasnt a disasastour. He did miss some opprotunities, but in the end of the day...we tied Georgia and still had chances to make it out of the group.....we failed and that was that...

IMO, if the current Israel team played the 1999 Austrian team that we won 5-0 over at home...the result would be 1-0 for israel or 0-0!
Nuff said

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2011, 21:33 Thread Starter
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Grant and Gutman would be the best choices, or letīs put it in a better way, they would be a more safe bet since it would at least for a while manage to keep fans media quiet of criticism.

Both are proven and experienced coaches that know how to deal well with indiscipline. Their tactics could sometimes could be contested (who isnīt criticized or contested in Israel), but at least they have criteria and a logic.

IMO IFA wants Grant since Luzon has a good relationship with him, but the fact that Grant has coached the team previously and Gutman comes from a very good spell with Hapoel Tel Aviv will turn the balance favourably for Eli.

As for other candidates, Berkovic would be a wild card. He never coached, but he understands football. He was the Israeli with best game vision I have ever seen and certainly this would reflect in his choices. But what attracts me the most in his name being the coach is the will to play for the NT. Coherent choices and no fear style just like the time when he was the key player of the team together with Revivo. If he isnīt the coach he could have a role in the NT.
What really goes against him is the fact he hasnīt coached before and his temper which we all know is a bit tough.

Reuven Atar would be a nice choice. He will be very soon a leading coach in Israel. But donīt think he is ready yet for the job.

What do you guys think of a foreign option? Is it discarded? Pekerman would be a good choice IMO, plus he is Jewish which would certainly give him more identification and proximity with players, media and especially fans.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2011, 21:53
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I agree with Kappa. This campaign wasn't a disaster. In fact, compared to the last campaign with Kashtan, this campaign was actually an improvement. We beat Latvia twice and mostly took care of the opponents ranked below us.

In the last campaign, Israel had the mother of all easy groups when they were drawn against Greece and Switzerland. We finished 4TH in that campaign, behind LATVIA. In this campaign, it was a bit more challenging with Croatia. However, we finished THIRD. That's our natural status in Europe: a 3rd-tier team.

We could've finished higher in this group, but that requires more consistent call-ups, formations, and tactics like Kappa said. Overall, Fernandes and Aouate are correct when they said that Israel has improved in this campaign.

Now, we have a very young NT with high potential. The key to the next campaign is to pick a maximum of 26 players and stick with them throughout the campaign. Our strength is in the our offense and therefore, we need to field an offensive formation throughout the campaign, regardless if we're playing Portugal or Luxembourg.

Consistent call-ups + Consistent tactics = Improved Chemistry

This formula generally leads to better results on the field. The question is: Is Luis Fernandes capable of sticking to this game plan? Is Gutman?

To me, it doesn't matter who the coach is for the next campaign as long as they understand that they're coaching a national team and not a club team. By this I mean that the coach understands that chemistry is a top priority and that he can't be re-training players in new positions at the NT level. There is no time for that. You need to field players in their natural position, always.

I highly doubt that we'll qualify for Brazil 2014 over Portugal and Russia, so I don't see a point in changing the coach. HE built this young group full of potential and improved the team from the last campaign. His rotations are only going to get tighter from this point on. If Luis continues for another campaign, the teams' performance will improve and they will look more and more like a team.

On paper, we have the potential. However, if we get a new coach, he'll most likely built the squad from scratch again and most likely set our progress back again. Will it be worth it?

Last edited by Daweed; October 13th, 2011 at 23:23.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old October 14th, 2011, 04:46
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To those who say Fernandez wasn't a disaster, you have a point. What I'm troubled by is that in the matchups with the stronger teams, Israel seemed to have no gameplan for victory, and no ability to adjust to their opponents. In the home match with Greece, for instance, Israel was completely outclassed tactically, despite having more talented attacking players.

From what I've seen of Russia, they're an extremely well-organized squad. Most of their players aren't household names in Europe, but that doesn't matter much. Portugal has world-class players, but can fall asleep a bit. If we were confident that Fernandez could coach the team to be organized and get points out of matches with superior teams, then keeping him might work out. I'm skeptical that he's the guy to do that.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old October 14th, 2011, 06:12
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I agree with Kappa. This campaign wasn't a disaster. In fact, compared to the last campaign with Kashtan, this campaign was actually an improvement. We beat Latvia twice and mostly took care of the opponents ranked below us.

In the last campaign, Israel had the mother of all easy groups when they were drawn against Greece and Switzerland. We finished 4TH in that campaign, behind LATVIA. In this campaign, it was a bit more challenging with Croatia. However, we finished THIRD. That's our natural status in Europe: a 3rd-tier team.

We could've finished higher in this group, but that requires more consistent call-ups, formations, and tactics like Kappa said. Overall, Fernandes and Aouate are correct when they said that Israel has improved in this campaign.

Now, we have a very young NT with high potential. The key to the next campaign is to pick a maximum of 26 players and stick with them throughout the campaign. Our strength is in the our offense and therefore, we need to field an offensive formation throughout the campaign, regardless if we're playing Portugal or Luxembourg.

Consistent call-ups + Consistent tactics = Improved Chemistry

This formula generally leads to better results on the field. The question is: Is Luis Fernandes capable of sticking to this game plan? Is Gutman?

To me, it doesn't matter who the coach is for the next campaign as long as they understand that they're coaching a national team and not a club team. By this I mean that the coach understands that chemistry is a top priority and that he can't be re-training players in new positions at the NT level. There is no time for that. You need to field players in their natural position, always.

I highly doubt that we'll qualify for Brazil 2014 over Portugal and Russia, so I don't see a point in changing the coach. HE built this young group full of potential and improved the team from the last campaign. His rotations are only going to get tighter from this point on. If Luis continues for another campaign, the teams' performance will improve and they will look more and more like a team.

On paper, we have the potential. However, if we get a new coach, he'll most likely built the squad from scratch again and most likely set our progress back again. Will it be worth it?
I'm glad everyone is trying to find positives out of the campaign, at least we did finish 3rd, however I feel like football in Israel has hit a brick wall, our football players haven't gotten better over the last 10 years, our players are missing something in their football education and know-how that I can't figure out, but when you look at our NT on all levels, they play extremely slow, and there is no fluidity to their game, as opposed to similar smaller sized nations like, Croatia, Denmark, Bosnia, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Serbia, Portugal. What is that their football players are learning or are good at that ours simply cannot master or being taught?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old October 14th, 2011, 16:51
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Im pretty jealous, and i wont hide it that Bosnia got into the playoffs. I want to congratulate them on it and hope they do well and make their country shine!

You say that we play better now compared to 10 years, but we still falter.... 10 years ago we had a great game against Spain which ended 1-1!!! that was amazing result.....
Today we had a 1-1 draw with Greece where we were outclassed in every department. Yet...we still are happy with it.

I want Ben Shahar and toto to be in every single game. If we have Malta or a lesser of an opponent than field something different.

Grant made them team look more serious with monthly games and more freindlies...plus reward money..... What happened to that?

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old October 14th, 2011, 19:10 Thread Starter
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Donīt think our campaign was completely disastrous, we finished third as usually we do, so in cold numbers and theory, we did our job, above that would be profit.

I understand those who defend Fernandez should stay another campaign since NT needs time gel up and test the players. I agree with Daweed on this point, but IMO Fernandez took too long to do so and stick with players, plus, some decisions werenīt really coherent IMO for example placing Tamir Cohen as central defender when we have other players to play in that position. Why not Dekel Keinan for instance? Why choose a player to play there when he never did so? Why placing Elroi Cohen as a rightback when he is an offensive winger and doesnīt have a defensive characteristic?
And other decisions such as not giving Eliran Atar or Toto Tamuz a chance to show themselves in the team.

He had good points which was to give chance for many players independently from which club he was, he had the players with him, they like Fernandez and at least the team was united and a prove of this was that Yossi Benayoun said Fernandez should be given another campaign.
And he never blamed the players for nothing, he protected them. He has a hard temper, but he is loyal and correct. And he faced media criticism with courage and intelligence.

As I said previously, independently from who is the coach or players playing out there I will support Israel and will always wish for its success. Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old October 15th, 2011, 19:57 Thread Starter
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I was just making a little exercize here imagining if this Euro edition qualified 24 teams as the next edition will, if Israel would be qualified. Obviously it is just hypothetical since it would be the two first teams qualified plus playoffs among the third places.

Anyways just making a simulation, there were nine groups, six of them had 6 teams while the remaining 3 groups had five teams on it.
This means that the NTīs that were in a six team group will most likely have more points than the five team group. So in order to balance this situation, Uefa determines that the results against the last place of the group are erased, including goals and everything. (so in this case it is better to have a stronger last pot team in our group).

So based on this I made a simulation where Israel would stand, reminding that Israel were in a six team group.

We ended in third place with with 16 points, 5 wins, one draw and 4 defeats scoring 13 goals and conceding 11. The last placed team in our group was Malta where we beat them twice (3-1 at home and 0-2 away)

This means that to compare ourselves with the third placed teams of the five team group our numbers would be: 10 points (deducing 6 points from both wins in Malta), 3 wins (we had 5 wins, deducting the wins against Malta) one draw and four losses, scoring 8 goals and conceding 10.

Now I made the same with the other groups and we ended up being the sixth best third place based on this rule (Again, I don`t know if this is the precise Uefa criteria, but anyways it is good to make some analysis).

Here is the list with the results against the last placed teams already taken off and the five group teams unchanged:

Norway 16 points 5W 1D 2L 10GF - 7GA

Hungary 13 points 4W 1D 3L 11GF -14GA

Armenia 11 points 3W 2D 3L 15GF - 10GA

Switzerland 11 points 3W 2D 3L 12GF - 10GA

Scotland 11 points 3W 2D 3L 9GF - 10GA

Israel 10 points 3W 1D 4L 8GF - 10GA

Belgium 9 points 2W 3D 3L 15GF - 14GA

Serbia 9 points 2W 3D 3L 7GF - 11GA

Romania 8 points 1W 5D 2L 8GF - 8GA


We could see that Norway had a very good campaign (they only lost on goal difference to Portugal), Hungary despite having the results against San Marino lost (they scored 11 goals in two games against) they did a good campaign.

Belgium were unlucky since they had a very tough group. They were one win away from the playoffs and had Germany in their group and they ended up behind Israel.

So in other words we were the 22nd best team in the qualifiers, in theory we would be qualified ( I am not considering host nations and not considering playoff system). Just an analysis
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