How do you rate Israel`s Euro 2012 qualifying campaign? - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: How do you rate this campaign?
Good. We weren`t expected to qualify as usual and we ended up giving a fight. 0 0%
Decent. Israel were expected to fight for a spot as we did, but we could have done more. 3 33.33%
Bad. This was our best draw in years, we had to qualify. No excuse. 6 66.67%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2011, 18:09 Thread Starter
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How do you rate Israel`s Euro 2012 qualifying campaign?

After the 3-1 defeat at the hands of Croatia one more campaign goes by without advancing.
Before this week Israel still had real chances of qualifying, but two terrible games against Greece and Croatia that culminated in two defeats sealed the fate.

How do you guys rate this campaign? Would you guys consider it as a failure or expected? We will most likely finish third, the position we have been finishing almost in every qualifiers since the 1998 WC campaign, so in terms of results we pretty much reached the same peak. On the other hand our football level decreased. Do you guys agree?
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2011, 18:58
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Before the campaign started, I expected qualification. But then after suffering through the first few games, I knew there was no way they were going to beat Greece or Croatia.

Berko, I don't think the level decreased because it really never increased.
They simply played to their abilities. They aren't a WC/Euro caliber team right now.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2011, 19:24
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I agree with Lior. After finishing 3rd and being SO close to qualification so many times, you would think that we would manage to improve, but we haven't.

We'll still end up in third place which is respectable. So overall, it was a 'decent' campaign...nothing to be overly embarrassed about and nothing to be excited about.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2011, 19:44
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I was debating between decent and bad:

the decent: Assuming we beat malta we will get 16 of 18 points against the teams we were ranked higher then (and we swept latvia, something we could do in the other campaign.

The Bad: 0 points against croatia and greece. (and in the last 3 campaigns we have 0 in four games against croatia, 1 in four games against greece).

If we are happy with mediocraty, I guess you can accept these results.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2011, 23:35 Thread Starter
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I voted for bad.

It was one of our best draws to qualify in years. Greece and Croatia are good sides, but not even close of their best moments while Israeli players are on a high abroad and we have a team packed with talent especially in the offensive sector.

But our displays were bad, we had rare good moments in these qualifiers and we took no points from Croatia and neither Greece which at least in previous campaigns we at least held the teams higher than us at home.

I don`t blame Fernandez solely for this failure. I guess the players are the ones to blame, no will, no heart, and especially no brains. Poor decision makings (two key examples, Kiyal in the Greek goal and Ben Haim in his stupid red card against Croatia). We need to change this mentality if we wish to qualify.

Another delicate issue here is the media. I blame them aswell. Always pressuring the coaches, always criticizing players, coaches, FA, inventing stories that could tear confidence and unity.
There are many people unfortunately that don`t wish the NT success.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2011, 03:42
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I'm going with bad. They could have had a good campaign and still failed to qualify with Croatia and Greece in good form. But overall, the team always looked sloppy and unprepared when it mattered most.

One thing Berko nailed- you can't pin the blame entirely in one place. Fernandez had problems, the individual players had problems, the media had problems, and Israeli football has problems. The lack of talented defenders would have been an issue no matter who coached. If the IFA wants Israel to qualify for the Euros or the World Cup, they need to take some initiative to make sure that they're producing talent at every position. If shipping every decent 22 year old to Belgium is the answer, by all means, do that. But figure something out.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2011, 14:28
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I think this campaign really highlighted how bad Israeli defenders are, not to mention the mental aspect of our game is lacking..
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2011, 22:17
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I voted "decent", because we were consistent in only ONE area: We took care of the lower-ranked teams and we let the higher-rank teams rape us, thus arriving to our usual and natural 3rd place finish.

I blame Fernandez only for his rotations. He needed a tighter rotation and not call up every player that had ONE good performance in the league. Pick a maximum of 25 players, stick with them throughout the campaign, and make a maximum of 5 changes throughout the campaign when it's absolutely neccessary. Is it that f**cking hard? Other than his rotations, he did fine with everything else. He should coach another campaign. As a foreign coach, I can't expect him to understand Israeli football, its best players, strengths, and weaknesses within one campaign. If they do fire him, there's only two ideal candidates for the position: Ivanir and Berkovic.

The rest(and the overwhelming majority) of the blame goes to the players. They all know how to perform against weaker opponents. But when it comes to stronger teams, they're all experts in bending over and taking it in the ass like professional hookers. They show absolutely no respect for themselves and their country. This mentality has to change. Ben Haim needs to be the captain in the next campaign. His strong mentality is exactly what team needs in a leader.

As for the Israeli media, they're just a joke to me. Yes, on paper we have a team that can fight for qualification, but these idiots in the media DEMAND qualification. WHAT ARE THESE EXPECTATIONS BASED ON? Aside from exporting Israeli footballers to Europe, Israeli Football has NOTHING to offer! Tactical knowledge and training does not exist. Physical training is even worse! The youth system is a joke compared to Europe. There's only ONE team in Israel that trains twice a day and that's not even close to European standards! Ligat Ha'al is constantly changing the number of teams, so growth and development is impossible. And on top of that, we still have the Israeli mentality that no one cares to address. So when these media idiots "expect" qualification, they're sending a clear message that they know absolutely nothing about football and its economics.

Seriously... If they're demanding qualification through Europe from ISRAEL, then what do the f**k do they expect from England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, etc? Honestly, I only read their articles and listen to their commentary when I need a good laugh...
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2011, 23:25 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daweed View Post
I voted "decent", because we were consistent in only ONE area: We took care of the lower-ranked teams and we let the higher-rank teams rape us, thus arriving to our usual and natural 3rd place finish.

I blame Fernandez only for his rotations. He needed a tighter rotation and not call up every player that had ONE good performance in the league. Pick a maximum of 25 players, stick with them throughout the campaign, and make a maximum of 5 changes throughout the campaign when it's absolutely neccessary. Is it that f**cking hard? Other than his rotations, he did fine with everything else. He should coach another campaign. As a foreign coach, I can't expect him to understand Israeli football, its best players, strengths, and weaknesses within one campaign. If they do fire him, there's only two ideal candidates for the position: Ivanir and Berkovic.

The rest(and the overwhelming majority) of the blame goes to the players. They all know how to perform against weaker opponents. But when it comes to stronger teams, they're all experts in bending over and taking it in the ass like professional hookers. They show absolutely no respect for themselves and their country. This mentality has to change. Ben Haim needs to be the captain in the next campaign. His strong mentality is exactly what team needs in a leader.

As for the Israeli media, they're just a joke to me. Yes, on paper we have a team that can fight for qualification, but these idiots in the media DEMAND qualification. WHAT ARE THESE EXPECTATIONS BASED ON? Aside from exporting Israeli footballers to Europe, Israeli Football has NOTHING to offer! Tactical knowledge and training does not exist. Physical training is even worse! The youth system is a joke compared to Europe. There's only ONE team in Israel that trains twice a day and that's not even close to European standards! Ligat Ha'al is constantly changing the number of teams, so growth and development is impossible. And on top of that, we still have the Israeli mentality that no one cares to address. So when these media idiots "expect" qualification, they're sending a clear message that they know absolutely nothing about football and its economics.

Seriously... If they're demanding qualification through Europe from ISRAEL, then what do the f**k do they expect from England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, etc? Honestly, I only read their articles and listen to their commentary when I need a good laugh...

I agree with you analysis, only two issues I just wanted to share. Tal Ben Haim should be the captain, he gives it all in the pitch and plays with heart, an example of player we need as you say, has good mentality, but I get worried about his sudden slumps as in the game against Croatia. A true leader also knows his importance to the team and what he did showed he didn`t understand that. Our defense sucks and without him we are doomed.
Benayoun is the more diplomatic guy, the one that normally doesn`t have problems with anyone and appear to be calm. He is a leader for his talent and for what he did in his career, but maybe not the one to guide us from a terrible situation in terms of motivation and leadership. Media and many who envy him, simply bash him, but they have short memory and forget how many times he has saved us from being humbled on his solo efforts.

Another issue, is on the coach. One campaign maybe is a short time for a coach to be with the team, this is no exception to Fernandez. But as you said his roatations and lack of tactical and players consitency makes me think otherwise and we should get another coach. I agree on Ivanir and Berkovic, but maybe their lack of experience could prove us wrong and this wouldn`t be good right now.

Grant and Gutman are the natural candidates and I prefer to see the latter in the NT. He has good records with Israeli clubs in Europe and is known to disciplinarian.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old October 11th, 2011, 23:31 Thread Starter
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So now with the 2-0 victory over Malta we end up another campaign in big dissapointment as the expectations were as usual to at least reach the playoffs and finally qualify for a big tournament since 1970.

According to our poll here nobody agreed that the campaign was good which IMO I agree since we had probably the most "beatable" draw since we entered Uefa in early 90´s (won`t count the first qualifiers for the 1994 WC because then we didn`t have any expectations at all).

We finished as we have been doing so in a regular manner in the past: third place.

The group ended with Greece in first place and qualifying automatically thanks to dramatic 2-1 victory over Georgia in Tblisi. The Greeks were losing until the 85th minute and managed to overturn the result and win the match. They ended with 24 points two ahead of Croatia which beat Latvia at home, but their defeat in the weekend against Greece sent them to the playoffs.
Israel standed far behind with 16 points, with a low 53,33% of the points.
At least we managed to keep our third place and a third pot draw for the further campaigns which at least leaves us with a bit of hope.
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