Brazil general elections october 2018 - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 874 (permalink) Old October 1st, 2018, 03:48 Thread Starter
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Brazil general elections october 2018

it's

Haddad

vs

Bolsonaro

who wins and why? and whom are you supporting here and why?

to me, it just seems like the old euro fight Eastern Orthodox Church vs Roman Catholic Church, aka Lebanese-Balkan vs Guido-Amazon

@JCam , what's your stand?

I say,

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post #2 of 874 (permalink) Old October 1st, 2018, 04:23
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I aint talking politics on xt (except chatbox ) but if you mentioning someone at least do it right @JCamilo
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post #3 of 874 (permalink) Old October 1st, 2018, 04:43
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I am not sure if there will be those two, Bolsonaro is out of the hospital, he didnt manage to increase his lead while playing the victim and keeping his mouth shut. His mate, a former general, is talking bullshit like "a legal coup" or a new law made by notable and not by the congress. A bit more and someone may kick him out (despite the 1 week yet). This weekend the media had to make their gamble, while some joined him, the majority tried a last shot against with his divorcee process, where he was accused of stealing and clearly hid his income from justice all those years.

Anyways, Bolsonaro is a scumbag of highest order, a moron, basically a walking meme that was used for 2014 cup and gained life. His proposals are bordeline ridiculous and impossible (like reduction of taxes but at sametime increase of militar funds or prize for cops that kill bandits). Not to mention he is a defender of torture, sonegation and censorship that goes own attacking women right and left. His fuel is only hatred and anti-PT(Haddad party and former president Lula party) propaganda. If that wasn't enough, Haddad was actually a very good minister from 2007 to 2012, beyond programs that opened several faculties, around the entire country, not just in the richest states, which allowed true inclusion. However, the cup of 2014 was to take PT out of power and prevent any movement towards the social politics here, so this election may take a crazy turn. However, it is notable how the responsable for the coup are being smashed and will end with 10% of votes together. If no external interference happens, they may also see PT actually increasing the number of congressman while they will lose their numbers.
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post #4 of 874 (permalink) Old October 1st, 2018, 05:43
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Amazing crowds against that piece of shit Bolsonaro this weekend, all over Brasil.

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post #5 of 874 (permalink) Old October 1st, 2018, 17:36
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Guy is a freak show. Takes your breath away reading about him
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If no other reporting existed on Trump/Russia, the fact that the FBI started a CI investigation to determine whether or not the sitting president of the US was either comprised by or an agent of Russia, it would be the biggest political story...ever.

Soros is very, very rich and funds every SJW-cause imaginable. Those are facts, not a conspiracy.

I agree with him that this was a total setup
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post #6 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:08 Thread Starter
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Bolsonaro is surely a clown but I‘m not sure what to think of the PT dude either

plus whenever there are leftish masses on the streets protesting against something, I start becoming sceptical

why is there no centrist-liberal candidate out there with even a fraction of a chance, or at least someone like FHC with understanding of economy? instead we see a bunch of populists left and right, nothing else
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post #7 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:19
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Define liberalism. Neo-liberalism is a cancer to any country that is not already rich and on top. Every single neo-liberal name was massively rejected since 2002 (and it is being smashed, since Temer, the actual president follow the neo-liberal agenda and is a disaster). FHC had no understanding of economy at all. This ia myth. His economic success came from Itamar Franco governament, the Real was by the economic team from him (Ciro Gomes for example is part of this team) and they let FHC use the "father of real" to win the elections in 1994 and 1998. Let's just put this: he was in the end a disaster. His second term ended with no growth, inflation, massive public debt, loss of jobs. Lula saved it.

The rethoric of Populism is just bs. Define Populism and let's see who did it (I wish people didn't mistake the political propaganda during elections with actual proposals. The guys hired to create this propaganda are from Agencies that are hired during this period and will be no part of the governament, but welll...).

Another thing: PT is hardly a left party. They are more center-left, closed to old social-democracy model. Haddad was the kind of mayor of Săo Paulo that would follow european models of administration, not something else. He is moderated enough to even adopt the idea that "golpe" (coup) was too strong word.

And I would not be afraid of waves of people in the street when they are protesting against a guy who is basically a neo-nazi tupiniquim. He is not a bad name, he is guy who attack black people openly in a country like Brazil.
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post #8 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
I am not sure if there will be those two, Bolsonaro is out of the hospital, he didnt manage to increase his lead while playing being the victim and keeping his mouth shut. His mate, a former general, is talking bullshit like "a legal coup" or a new law made by notable and not by the congress. A bit more and someone may kick him out (despite the 1 week yet). This weekend the media had to make their gamble, while some joined him, the majority tried a last shot against with his divorcee process, where he was accused of stealing and clearly hid his income from justice all those years.
..

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post #9 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:30 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
Define liberalism. Neo-liberalism is a cancer to any country that is not already rich and on top. Every single neo-liberal name was massively rejected since 2002 (and it is being smashed, since Temer, the actual president follow the neo-liberal agenda and is a disaster). FHC had no understanding of economy at all. This ia myth. His economic success came from Itamar Franco governament, the Real was by the economic team from him (Ciro Gomes for example is part of this team) and they let FHC use the "father of real" to win the elections in 1994 and 1998. Let's just put this: he was in the end a disaster. His second term ended with no growth, inflation, massive public debt, loss of jobs. Lula saved it.

The rethoric of Populism is just bs. Define Populism and let's see who did it (I wish people didn't mistake the political propaganda during elections with actual proposals. The guys hired to create this propaganda are from Agencies that are hired during this period and will be no part of the governament, but welll...).

Another thing: PT is hardly a left party. They are more center-left, closed to old social-democracy model. Haddad was the kind of mayor of Săo Paulo that would follow european models of administration, not something else. He is moderated enough to even adopt the idea that "golpe" (coup) was too strong word.

And I would not be afraid of waves of people in the street when they are protesting against a guy who is basically a neo-nazi tupiniquim. He is not a bad name, he is guy who attack black people openly in a country like Brazil.
define liberalism? why when you have the definition in wikipedia for example. I don‘t think so called neo-liberalism (not sure what that even is) has smth to do with it

ha, you sound like a leftist yourself now with the FHC bashing

anyway, my fav presidente of last 30 years was without a doubt Lula, but still not sure if that Arab has the guts like our squid had. funny I was just in Brazil during the 2002 elections, still remember well how hysterical all those right-wingers went, like we must leave the country now, bring all our cash to america or whereever

having said that, to me the old social-democratic model is already way too left
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post #10 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:33
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Applying a Finland model to a gigantic, corrupt cacophony like Brazil might seem to some people extreme.

But I know little of Brazil, should probably end the oneliners here.
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post #11 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:50 Thread Starter
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Applying a Finland model to a gigantic, corrupt cacophony like Brazil might seem to some people extreme.

But I know little of Brazil, should probably end the oneliners here.
good luck applying a model that may have worked on 4 million Harokims and MarieLs on a bunch of 200 million JCams and Zé da Fiels
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post #12 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 15:53
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I would say you just started with an one liner. Anyways, which Finish model exactly? 5 meters distance between people in Bus stops lines?

Szov:

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define liberalism? why when you have the definition in wikipedia for example. I don‘t think so called neo-liberalism (not sure what that even is) has smth to do with it
Meh, Wikipedia cannot help me there, but yeah, define liberalism in the meaning you want. Traditional liberal politics like democracy, socialism, feminism, etc? Free Market? What exactly?

And FHC is a neo-liberal. That is what went wrong with this governament, after all.

Quote:
ha, you sound like a leftist yourself now with the FHC bashing
The question is simple: is that false? There is a motive why Itamar Franco became opositor to FHC, you know. The real president "father of real". (Why would you think a professor of Sociology understand economy, anyways?)

Quote:
anyway, my fav presidente of last 30 years was without a doubt Lula, but still not sure if that Arab has the guts like our squid had. funny I was just in Brazil during the 2002 elections, still remember well how hysterical all those right-wingers went, like we must leave the country now, bring all our cash to america or whereever
Which is no different from the propaganda used to those days to imply again PT is turning Brazil in a Venezuela, but saddly, Bolsonazi is not a fake one. It is an imbecile that claims there was no slavery and africans entered in portuguese ships to come here willingly.

Quote:
having said that, to me the old social-democratic model is already way too left
Left to what exactly, not sure what you mean.

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post #13 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:05
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I'm voting for Ciro Gomes this weekend. But that's because I'm afraid the fragile brazillian democracy will be under threat otherwise.

Bolsonaro is a brain-dead torture-worshipper that said he would not accept the result if he loses and could very well be a brazillian Fujimori if his absurd or just dumb ideas start being reject at the congress.

I like Haddad but the rejection he and his party have right now would turn his government in a propitious ground for a coup d' etat. Even if it does not materialize, he would likely have to make a ton of compromises to attain governability.

When it eventually will come down to either Haddad or Bolsonaro. I will definitely be voting for Haddad.
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post #14 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:16 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post

Meh, Wikipedia cannot help me there, but yeah, define liberalism in the meaning you want. Traditional liberal politics like democracy, socialism, feminism, etc? Free Market? What exactly?

And FHC is a neo-liberal. That is what went wrong with this governament, after all.



The question is simple: is that false? There is a motive why Itamar Franco became opositor to FHC, you know. The real president "father of real". (Why would you think a professor of Sociology understand economy, anyways?)



Which is no different from the propaganda used to those days to imply again PT is turning Brazil in a Venezuela, but saddly, Bolsonazi is not a fake one. It is an imbecile that claims there was no slavery and africans entered in portuguese ships to come here willingly.



Left to what exactly, not sure what you mean.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

not the false one with socialism, feminism etc ideologies

I was just wondering why there never is nor was a candidate of this type

instead we have what you call a social-democrat very good ex-minister and mayor (could be mayor of Helsinki?) and a Bolonazi (why so, does he plan to install a socialistic based economy and exterminate all jews? or maybe invade Poland or other neighbours?)
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post #15 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:18
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I would say you just started with an one liner. Anyways, which Finish model exactly? 5 meters distance between people in Bus stops lines?


Picture the carnivals.

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post #16 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:38
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I don't know anything about anybody in Brasil but trying to off your candidates probably isn't the way to go

Ding ding ding da ding da ding ding ding
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post #17 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:45
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Originally Posted by Lucas Bonfá View Post
I'm voting for Ciro Gomes this weekend. But that's because I'm afraid the fragile brazillian democracy will be under threat otherwise.

Bolsonaro is a brain-dead torture-worshipper that said he would not accept the result if he loses and could very well be a brazillian Fujimori if his absurd or just dumb ideas start being reject at the congress.

I like Haddad but the rejection he and his party have right now would turn his government in a propitious ground for a coup d' etat. Even if it does not materialize, he would likely have to make a ton of compromises to attain governability.

When it eventually will come down to either Haddad or Bolsonaro. I will definitely be voting for Haddad.
I grew up under Fujimori's dictatorship. He did horrible things, in fact many more and worse than he's been jailed for, and I hate his guts . I see the parallels, which are indeed many.

But IMO Bolsonaro is ten times as dangerous. Fujimori was elected as a completely unknown university administrator playing the ethnic card ("Japanese = hard working"), with a fake anti-neoliberal platform that he immediately betrayed, and amidst a civil war and Weimar-like inflation, and above all running against a widely unpopular, elitist candidate. Even the left supported him at some point. So he had no power and no extreme platform. Only later he cultivated the almost messianic figure, and of became course a corrupt and murdering dictator. Also, while Peru was ****ed up at the time, it was a time when formally democratic rule, for all its issues, was generally thriving in Latin America.

Bolsonaro on the other hand already now is called "the salvation of Brazil" by his supporters, basically because he threatens to kills everybody. He is running with an openly quasi fascist platform of creating military schools and giving guns to people, with the support of the worst of the military and the fundamentalist, classist, and racist extreme right wing, whitewashing dictatorship, etc., and amidst a climate in which not only large parts of the population, but also the highest courts in land, are so far into their anti-leftist obsession that they have turned a brutal and corrupt military regime into a shangri-la. He's also survived a murder attempt while in campaign. Thetatened to not respect the election's results. His middle names is Messiah! And this is a time during which democratic norms are being eroding in all over the world. If he wins with that platform and in those conditions, it's very much open for him to to all kind of madness. Being a dictator is basically his platform. Unless people on the streets/the military stop him, which would be very nasty.
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post #18 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:53
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this is a time during which democratic norms are being eroding in all over the world.

Indeed, take Western Europe... free speech restrictions, tech totalitarianism, military in the streets, EU powergrab...

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post #19 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:53
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Last time I was in Peru Fujimori's daughter was running for Prez and everyone knew that if she got elected she would free pops. I had no skin in the game so it didn't really matter to me. I should ask my yerno what he thinks .

One of the funny things that happened is that we hired a driver during our stays there to take us wherever we needed to go. I forget how much it was but not outrageous. I think we ended up paying like $100-$120 per day and it was a van that took our entire party of 6. Anyways, this guy had a DVD player and he would play this DVD of one of the other candidates (I think he was a former Prez) essentially giving his campaign pitch. I asked the guy about it and, basically, he got some cash to play this DVD. I thought it was pretty funny .

Ding ding ding da ding da ding ding ding
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post #20 of 874 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2018, 16:55 Thread Starter
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Indeed, take Western Europe... free speech restrictions, tech totalitarianism, military in the streets, EU powergrab...


lol what? where?
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