Has Philosophy run its course? - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: Is philosophical progress dead?
Yes, or at least dying 0 0%
No, it will evolve synchronously with society 4 100.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

 15Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 19:45 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
Question Has Philosophy run its course?

Was thinking about this for a while when trying to guess wich living philosophers will be "included in the HoF" of philosophy.(Chomsky maybe?) Wittgenstein thought that his book, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, is the last ever work on philosophy needing to be published and although he published latter works wich criticised ideas from the Tractatus, he was obviously on to something.

Most likely all major philosophical inquiries have been reflected and debated enough and the progress of philosophy(once slow because of dogmas) saw its most significant paradigm shift with the Age of Enlightenment. Now, fields like evolutionary biology and neuroscience shed light on questions such as the meaning of life, the nature of love or morality and it's here where we probably find the end(or future) of philosophy.
After DZG mentioned Sam Harris in another thread, I read a bit about him and he's currently researching the possibility of establishing a moral code by mapping the neural responses in various situations.(far-future discovery but still interesting)

So I think philosophy is no longer something that evolves in tandem with society, but needs to be replaced by special sciences, or we'll just end up pulling mental gymnastics to come up with something "new" and edgy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.
pele10brazil is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 20:43
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
JCamilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Brasil
Teams: Atletico-MG
Posts: 28,936
Yes, someone who didnt study philosophy for years in a football forum is coming with the end of philosophy because there is a Hall of Fame. Ok.
Inácio likes this.

Kat: "JCam, you may quote me now, but you are quite wise".

Kat: "JCam knows, we do not doubt in him".
JCamilo is offline  
post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 22:07 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
Yes, someone who didnt study philosophy for years in a football forum is coming with the end of philosophy because there is a Hall of Fame. Ok.
So that's why you never voice your opinions on football, team selections, tactical mistakes, players quality etc. Because you(and 99% of the forum) never were a pro football player or coached a football club and only interacted with the sport from an amateur perspective. Point taken
Also I was under the impression that question threads are meant to educate someone via crowdsourcing with the great probability of more informed people giving their opinion.

P.S. "included in the HoF" Somehow you missed the scare quotes. I guess it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.
pele10brazil is offline  
post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 22:43
Premier Player
 
Abedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2011
Posts: 2,170
When a man spends his career mostly passing sideways, did he ever really play at all?
pele10brazil likes this.
Abedi is offline  
post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 22:46
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
JCamilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Brasil
Teams: Atletico-MG
Posts: 28,936
Yes, I am pretty sure that you can compare discussing the future of Philosophy to fan ramblings about football. Continue, Pele, you are obviously learning your lesson.

Remember the Witty boy? He had an odd idea that the problem of philosophy was not the answers, but the questions.

Kat: "JCam, you may quote me now, but you are quite wise".

Kat: "JCam knows, we do not doubt in him".
JCamilo is offline  
post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 23:04 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
Yes, I am pretty sure that you can compare discussing the future of Philosophy to fan ramblings about football. Continue, Pele, you are obviously learning your lesson.
Of course you can Joao, because I didn't publish a scientific paper now did I? Point is you have minimum credibility in your footballing opinions being a complete outsider to the pro football world.

Now let me give you a word of advice. Ease on the age-induced but hurt and try to offer your insight strictly on the subject(if you're interested at all in it, of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.
pele10brazil is offline  
post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 23:10
Administrators
Legend
 
Reza's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2001
Location: Canada
Teams: Milan
Posts: 11,034
Even in the idiocracy age there is room for thought and yes it can be outside of the realm of 'science'. Meaning can be given to life even when science is discovering it's building blocks and mapping its progress.
Inácio likes this.
Reza is offline  
post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old March 26th, 2018, 23:55
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
Inácio's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Portugal
Teams: SL Benfica
Posts: 24,555
the day philosphy "dies" is the day we die as a thinking, species
Reza likes this.

"there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in"

"rocks on my path? i keep them all , one day i'll build a castle"
Inácio is offline  
post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 01:24
*the drum drum*
Xtratime Legend
 
Zico 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2000
Posts: 42,450
This is a pretty stupid question, even by XT standards.
Inácio likes this.

9
Zico 10 is offline  
post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 02:47
TTM
Legend
 
TTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2011
Posts: 12,306
As an engineer, I piss on Philosophy

Ding ding ding da ding da ding ding ding
TTM is offline  
post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 04:25
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
JCamilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Brasil
Teams: Atletico-MG
Posts: 28,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by pele10brazil View Post
Of course you can Joao, because I didn't publish a scientific paper now did I? Point is you have minimum credibility in your footballing opinions being a complete outsider to the pro football world.

Now let me give you a word of advice. Ease on the age-induced but hurt and try to offer your insight strictly on the subject(if you're interested at all in it, of course).
No, You didnt wrote a scientific paper. You opened a stupid thread with an absurd question, wrote a bunch of even more stupid explanation dismissing several philosophers that published works after the 20's (when Tractatus was published, so before the Nazism, second war, mass media, cinema, post-modernism, nuclear age, in other words, several relevant changes that prompted a lot of philosophical work since they wouldn't just stop thinking Witttgenstein would finish it all), with or without quotes, and persists to compare with the fans of football writting in a football forum, as If anywhere I am defending the stupidy idea that anyone posting here has the credibility to teach Guardiola about footbal, which shows the same style that make you think Cristiano Ronaldo is such wonderful player proving you have no conditon to discuss the topic as I said.

I gave you an insight. You are refusing to listen. The question is dumb. I even mentioned Wittgenstein. But if you are planning to bring a poke and a philosopher battle between Derida and Russell, sure, go ahead. If not, just listen to Zico and give to this topic some productive silence.

Kat: "JCam, you may quote me now, but you are quite wise".

Kat: "JCam knows, we do not doubt in him".
JCamilo is offline  
post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 08:52 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
@JCamilo You might want to reflect a bit if the question is absurd because you don't like the person who asked, and if you subjected it to any sort of critical thinking. I'm guessing your prior analysis is full of confirmation bias, since somehow you tought I dismissed post-Wittgenstein philosophers, and still pick on the football analogy. Whether we debate about football, philosophy, science, politics, religion we won't establish the universal truth in a forum thread(but it's still a discussion). Texbook fallacy btw with that crap deductive reasoning: I don't like your analogy>so that's why you like CR>so you are wrong about unrelated topic.

In any case, I feel you and maybe others might have misunderstood the question. Let me clear things up and I think you'll agree we'll achieve a more productive discussion if I quote other peeps(not so pigheaded to put it gently) until you sort things for yourself out. I'm confident you can offer far more than "the question is stupid, YOU'RE STUPID"(proof being I actually got some reasoning after explaining some things to you).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inácio View Post
the day philosphy "dies" is the day we die as a thinking, species
This may be true depending on what angle you're approaching the matter. I wouldn't equate tought process with philosophy: "These shoes fit me pretty welll" , "It stinks in here; Joao must have farted".

People should always retain their critical thinking, and my question doesn't renders the philosophical works written up till now obsolete. But take a look at what Joao said "Nazism, second war, mass media, cinema, post-modernism, nuclear age, in other words, several relevant changes that prompted a lot of philosophical work". Changes are what made philosophy progress and exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the poll option "No, it will evolve synchronously with society".

I'll finish this quoting Reza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reza View Post
Even in the idiocracy age there is room for thought and yes it can be outside of the realm of 'science'. Meaning can be given to life even when science is discovering it's building blocks and mapping its progress.
Well this is precisely what I fear might be us "pulling mental gymnastics to come up with something "new" and edgy" but it's a good example(the point of the thread) :thumsup:

I'm gonna put it this way. Let's say "Truth" is a big picture covered by allot of puzzle pieces. In the process to gain knowledge we simply take out a piece of that puzzle to see more of the big picture, and sometimes we only think we have taken a piece.

Now after humans became rational beings, the're line of reasoning was dominated by superstition and dogma, afterwards philosophical thought in it's modern sense emerged and some new progress could be made(but superstitious tought still clinged to it heavily troughout centuries, impeding it's development).
So the question of the thread is if a new kind of progress is in the making and in need of detachment from it's predecessors, the scientific thought.

What will be new game changers? Ultra advanced AI, human genetic enhancement, extraterrestrial intelligence?
I guess I'm just under the suspicion that our quest to remove those piece from the big picture will suffer if philosophical thought clinges to scientific thought the same way superstitious thought did/does on both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.
pele10brazil is offline  
post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 09:14 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
Abedi's post is my favourite ITT And he phrased it perfectly because the question might sound too radical for people who don't want to "crush the World's corolla of wonders". Philosophical progress being immortal might be a "metaphorical truth" so to speak, in the same way some people argue religion is useful for social cohesion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.
pele10brazil is offline  
post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 11:14
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
JCamilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Brasil
Teams: Atletico-MG
Posts: 28,936
If you cannot tell the difference between saying your question is stupid and saying you are stupid (which I never did), how you can even produce anything coherent about philosophy? You mention Wittgenstein, but you cannot even get past him.

Kat: "JCam, you may quote me now, but you are quite wise".

Kat: "JCam knows, we do not doubt in him".
JCamilo is offline  
post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 11:27
TTM
Legend
 
TTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2011
Posts: 12,306
Let me pose this philosophical question.....If a philosopher falls in the woods, is he still unemployed?

Ding ding ding da ding da ding ding ding
TTM is offline  
post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 12:09
Administrators
Xtratime Legend
 
JCamilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: Brasil
Teams: Atletico-MG
Posts: 28,936
The question is also stupid. All philosophers are unemployed, no matter if you are Berkeley or Hume.

Kat: "JCam, you may quote me now, but you are quite wise".

Kat: "JCam knows, we do not doubt in him".
JCamilo is offline  
post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 12:28 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
If you cannot tell the difference between saying your question is stupid and saying you are stupid (which I never did), how you can even produce anything coherent about philosophy? You mention Wittgenstein, but you cannot even get past him.
Well I might think so when your opening post on the matter is this

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
Yes, someone who didnt study philosophy for years in a football forum is coming with the end of philosophy because there is a Hall of Fame. Ok.
So I'll let you objectively ponder if my suspicion is groundless or not.

It's true you made slight progress because I had patience and didn't simply respond with a snappy one-line personal attack. But your insight is pretty shallow so far and I think we can agree you resorted more to ad hominem rather than approaching the substance of the question w/o nitpicking or deconstructing the meaning behind certain phrases. Like I said, if the subject is appealing and you have something meaningful to add, by all means go ahead.

Regarding Wittgenstein, he grandiosely suggested the Tractus to be the last radical theory change in philosophy. What I meant by "he was obviously on to something" is that indeed philosophy might need a major change, wich implied by my OP is IMO its permanent assimilation in "scientific thought"(or how I grandly put it, die). So the point is pretty simple, not a critical analysis of the Tractatus(unless you do have something meanigful to quote it on the subject) or a dick meassuring contest on who knows more about Wittgenstein, but is philosophy in need of major change? If yes, is philosophy conceding its goals to science the right answer? Stick to that if you can and you're interested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.

Last edited by pele10brazil; March 27th, 2018 at 12:45.
pele10brazil is offline  
post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 12:37
Xtratime Legend
 
Morierinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2006
Teams: Inter; Stoke
Posts: 28,483
In before Sócrates.

Not bigotting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze da Fiel View Post
Ive probably been the poster with most number of heated discussions in this board over the years.... and I can assure you I won at least 90% of them.
dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka na ghat ka
Morierinho is offline  
post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 12:37
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 53,111
as long as we have great philosophy battles ŕ la Ero vs Orkan, I don't see it running its course yet
szövkap is offline  
post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2018, 12:56 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Legend
 
pele10brazil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2010
Teams: Romania,Real Madrid,Universitatea Craiova
Posts: 12,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by szövkap View Post
as long as we have great philosophy battles ŕ la Ero vs Orkan, I don't see it running its course yet
The greatest XT philosophical debate was Rugarici vs scores of shining knights on Albanian hustlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitriy View Post
Athletic ability to spare, genius level mathematicians, invented the internet, invented russian language, incredibly attractive people, master carpenters, cultural richness to rival any country, musical artistry unsurpassed in Europe....

I'm not kidding here, and I've said it before, if you look deep down in your soul you'll realize that Romanians are master race.
pele10brazil is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome