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post #11661 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 21:01
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Originally Posted by Tony Montana View Post
Robert Teich:

In just the past month it has been reported that:
1) China is likely listening in on the president's unsecured phone calls.
2) Trump engaged in fraud to avoid taxes on his inheritance.
3) Kushner paid no income tax for years.

Not a single congressional hearing.
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And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Rudyard Kipling
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post #11662 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 21:03
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Originally Posted by TTM View Post
I would like him to expand on his theories though
Are you mad!? You you, you want to see the code laid bare!?


And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Rudyard Kipling
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post #11663 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 21:23
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Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will appear with President Trump at his rally in Missouri, the campaign announces.

If no other reporting existed on Trump/Russia, the fact that the FBI started a CI investigation to determine whether or not the sitting president of the US was either comprised by or an agent of Russia, it would be the biggest political story...ever.

Soros is very, very rich and funds every SJW-cause imaginable. Those are facts, not a conspiracy.

I agree with him that this was a total setup
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post #11664 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 21:37
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Grandfather: Friedrich Trump, a 16-yr-old German barber, on one-way ticket to America, escaping 3 years of compulsory German military service

Mother: Mary Anne MacLeod, a domestic worker, Scotland.

First wife: Ivana,Czechoslovakia.

Melania: Slovenian

If no other reporting existed on Trump/Russia, the fact that the FBI started a CI investigation to determine whether or not the sitting president of the US was either comprised by or an agent of Russia, it would be the biggest political story...ever.

Soros is very, very rich and funds every SJW-cause imaginable. Those are facts, not a conspiracy.

I agree with him that this was a total setup
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post #11665 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 21:38
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"They promised they were going to take on corruption in Washington. Instead, they racked up enough indictments to field a football team."

If no other reporting existed on Trump/Russia, the fact that the FBI started a CI investigation to determine whether or not the sitting president of the US was either comprised by or an agent of Russia, it would be the biggest political story...ever.

Soros is very, very rich and funds every SJW-cause imaginable. Those are facts, not a conspiracy.

I agree with him that this was a total setup
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post #11666 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 22:14
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Originally Posted by camelface View Post
Discussions often go down paranoid dichotomous rabbit holes here. Not targetting you in particular. I indeed do leave myself the freedom to not follow people there.

I perceive a lot of gang mentality. Though you are not a trump supporter (though you've clearly abandoned supporting left leaning politics to hate on identity politicians and activists, and conveniently your "humour" (not hate) is directed to one side), titty, boyo, you, fird, ante and ero tend to like posts in clusters. This might be my "déplorables" moment but if that doesn't bring you to reflection then I don't know what will, hence why I engage selectively.
There is nothing that says that left leaning politics necessarily have to be based on identity politics. Yes, I'm more harsh on the left, because they are digging themselves deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole that is intersectionalism. These policies will in the long run be detrimental to everything that the left claims to be fighting for.

Welfare will become unsustainable without a strict border control. It might anyway, but at least the transformation will be less radical.

Racism as well as misogyny will increase with rabid intersectionalism. I'm talking about real racism and real misogyny here and not the cry-bully definitions of the terms.

I think your apologetics for the current insanity on the left is very naive. Just as the right should shun the loonies on the far right, the left should also purge the crazies instead of embracing them and viewing them as valuable allies. The concept that everything should be politicized is extremely divisive and will be even more in the future if it isn't reigned in, divisiveness is something you've repeatedly claimed that you're against.

My digs aren't directed to one side either. If that's your takeaway it's because you're conveniently disregarding my mocking of the right. I might laugh more at the left currently, but that's their own fault really. They can choose to be less retarded. You don't see me mocking level-headed lefties like Tulsi Gabbard for example.

As for the gang mentality, if you knew anything about me you'd know that running in packs is pretty much the antithesis of who I am. And TTM and Firdaus have both explicitly told you that they're not Trump supporters. But you still, for some incomprehensible reason, keep implying that they are just that simply because they are not disavowing Trump hard enough.

So in closing.

Disagreeing with the claim that Trump is literally Hitler isn't an endorsement of Trump.
Disagreeing with the claim that Trump is literally Hitler isn't an endorsement of Trump.
Disagreeing with the claim that Trump is literally Hitler isn't an endorsement of Trump.
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ha! i read about height. nacka, you are mongoloid.
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post #11667 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 22:29
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"... titty, boyo, you, fird, ante and ero tend to like posts in clusters"

Please do not paraphrase Eric Cartman, thank you very much.
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post #11668 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 22:38
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Originally Posted by zoo View Post
Check what is irony ffs

If you are immigrant or your predecesor are immigrants, or your wives are immigrants, or your children are US citizens bc are born in US at least you can do is shut the fvck up on the topic.

If you really are against than send your wife back to her country or leave the US and go back to your shithole.

The so called conservatives are ok with something only if it benefits only them.

So, stop with the fvcking hate.

The fvcking Fox news generation made US from the most respected country in the world to the most hated. Hate is a two way street.
Oh, we forgot, you, like, errrr read and stuff.

So if Osama Bin Laden or Josef Fritzl wanted to migrate to America, all immigrants, and children of immigrants, and children of children of immigrants, and children of children of children of immigrants, and people who married an immigrant, and people who knew someone married to the child of an immigrant, would have to accept it. Because hate, Fox News.

... and if you've been invited to spend the night at a friend's house, you must make sure the door stays unlocked so that everyone else has access too. Otherwise hate.
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Not bigotting

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Ive probably been the poster with most number of heated discussions in this board over the years.... and I can assure you I won at least 90% of them.
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Last edited by Morierinho; November 4th, 2018 at 22:48.
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post #11669 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 23:14
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Originally Posted by Morierinho View Post
Oh, we forgot, you, like, errrr read and stuff.

So if Osama Bin Laden or Josef Fritzl wanted to migrate to America, all immigrants, and children of immigrants, and children of children of immigrants, and children of children of children of immigrants, and people who married an immigrant, and people who knew someone married to the child of an immigrant, would have to accept it. Because hate, Fox News.

... and if you've been invited to spend the night at a friend's house, you must make sure the door stays unlocked so that everyone else has access too. Otherwise hate.
you just repeated your false dichotomy for a second time in a row...
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post #11670 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Nacka View Post
There is nothing that says that left leaning politics necessarily have to be based on identity politics. Yes, I'm more harsh on the left, because they are digging themselves deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole that is intersectionalism. These policies will in the long run be detrimental to everything that the left claims to be fighting for.

Welfare will become unsustainable without a strict border control. It might anyway, but at least the transformation will be less radical.

Racism as well as misogyny will increase with rabid intersectionalism. I'm talking about real racism and real misogyny here and not the cry-bully definitions of the terms.

I think your apologetics for the current insanity on the left is very naive. Just as the right should shun the loonies on the far right, the left should also purge the crazies instead of embracing them and viewing them as valuable allies. The concept that everything should be politicized is extremely divisive and will be even more in the future if it isn't reigned in, divisiveness is something you've repeatedly claimed that you're against.

My digs aren't directed to one side either. If that's your takeaway it's because you're conveniently disregarding my mocking of the right. I might laugh more at the left currently, but that's their own fault really. They can choose to be less retarded. You don't see me mocking level-headed lefties like Tulsi Gabbard for example.

As for the gang mentality, if you knew anything about me you'd know that running in packs is pretty much the antithesis of who I am. And TTM and Firdaus have both explicitly told you that they're not Trump supporters. But you still, for some incomprehensible reason, keep implying that they are just that simply because they are not disavowing Trump hard enough.

So in closing.

Disagreeing with the claim that Trump is literally Hitler isn't an endorsement of Trump.
Disagreeing with the claim that Trump is literally Hitler isn't an endorsement of Trump.
Disagreeing with the claim that Trump is literally Hitler isn't an endorsement of Trump.

What's intersectionality and what does it imply for politics?

Where are my apologetics for the insanity of the left? What insanity of the left? Sounds like it's a rampant thing.

What happens when the right become the loonies on the far right? I didn't say Hitler, I said the loonies of the far right.

I wonder how you come to the conclusion that the mainstream left is right now more retarded than the mainstream right. Maybe answering the above will help me to see.
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post #11671 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2018, 23:24
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The state of Hannity and Limbaugh is the same it's always been.

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Originally Posted by camelface View Post
you just repeated your false dichotomy for a second time in a row...
I don't understand what you mean.

Zoo says immigrants or people related to immigrants must favour further immigration (or at least shut up about the topic), even when the lifeboat is capsizing.

It's sort of the immigration version of the Uncle Tom / Race Traitor argument.

Not bigotting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze da Fiel View Post
Ive probably been the poster with most number of heated discussions in this board over the years.... and I can assure you I won at least 90% of them.
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post #11672 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 01:33
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Originally Posted by camelface View Post
What's intersectionality and what does it imply for politics?

Where are my apologetics for the insanity of the left? What insanity of the left? Sounds like it's a rampant thing.

What happens when the right become the loonies on the far right? I didn't say Hitler, I said the loonies of the far right.

I wonder how you come to the conclusion that the mainstream left is right now more retarded than the mainstream right. Maybe answering the above will help me to see.
If you don't see how intersectionality (identity politics) is divisive by its very nature I'm not sure we'll be able to carry on a contructive conversation. Using people's race/gender/sexual orientation to rank them in an oppression hierarchy and then try to shame those who managed to score the least oppression points is a bad idea. No ifs, buts and maybes. It's bad, full stop. I thought the left were supposed to be the rational and secular side. So seeing it willingly embrace the idea of original sin is absurd to say the least.

You admitting earlier that identity politics might very well be detrimental to its supposed cause but still defending it is a bit weird to say the least. That's why I say that you engage in apologetics for the ideologically insane.

This nonsense needs to be purged from the school system. The schools shouldn't be political indoctrination camps. And the media really need to reconsider if pushing for a race war with their constant race baiting is really beneficial even if it means clicks and ratings.

What do you think will happen when the young people who are in school today further down the line realize that the shaming they have had to endure was based on pure ideological nonsense? Do you think that they will be saying that "hey, the reason that they shamed me for my gender and skin colour was based on good intentions, so no biggie" or do you think that a large portion of these people will become extremely resentful?

The left is the far right's best recruitment tool. If we're dividing everyone up by race and advocating for rights/responsibilities based on that characteristic it comes across as very contradictory and hollow to then pull a switcheroo and tell white identitarians that they can't do the same thing.

What policies of mainstream conservatism or the current right wing establishment do you consider far right. You seem to imply that them becoming far right has already happened.
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Originally Posted by BM_1 View Post
ha! i read about height. nacka, you are mongoloid.
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post #11673 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 02:26
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Originally Posted by Nacka View Post
If you don't see how intersectionality (identity politics) is divisive by its very nature I'm not sure we'll be able to carry on a contructive conversation. Using people's race/gender/sexual orientation to rank them in an oppression hierarchy and then try to shame those who managed to score the least oppression points is a bad idea. No ifs, buts and maybes. It's bad, full stop. I thought the left were supposed to be the rational and secular side. So seeing it willingly embrace the idea of original sin is absurd to say the least.

You admitting earlier that identity politics might very well be detrimental to its supposed cause but still defending it is a bit weird to say the least. That's why I say that you engage in apologetics for the ideologically insane.

This nonsense needs to be purged from the school system. The schools shouldn't be political indoctrination camps. And the media really need to reconsider if pushing for a race war with their constant race baiting is really beneficial even if it means clicks and ratings.

What do you think will happen when the young people who are in school today further down the line realize that the shaming they have had to endure was based on pure ideological nonsense? Do you think that they will be saying that "hey, the reason that they shamed me for my gender and skin colour was based on good intentions, so no biggie" or do you think that a large portion of these people will become extremely resentful?

The left is the far right's best recruitment tool. If we're dividing everyone up by race and advocating for rights/responsibilities based on that characteristic it comes across as very contradictory and hollow to then pull a switcheroo and tell white identitarians that they can't do the same thing.

What policies of mainstream conservatism or the current right wing establishment do you consider far right. You seem to imply that them becoming far right has already happened.
The way I see intersectionality is that it adds more resolution to a sociological view of which groups are less well off. On its own I think it is a fairly harmless idea. You are right though that when people start claiming things from other groups, it gets dicey, and I think that the progression to a more just society should happen slowly and gradually, ie, they shouldn't just affirmative action it up 100%. But a bit of it is fine and good imo, and that is what moderate left or centrist people suggest.

When I say that the right has become far right, it puzzles me a bit that you don't see it, but it is Trump, lying everyday, supported by state media, using identity politics himself (white christian), taking benefit from rigged elections, insulting his opponents, making alliances with dictators without being able to keep warm ties with democratic countries, and so on. We are not talking about the average historical Republican...
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post #11674 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 02:39
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It's not just "a little bit of affirmative action".

Smash white privilege and the patriarchy is increasingly the guiding principle of the mainstream left and the institutions they dominate, i.e. the media, the universities, the entertainment industry, big tech...

Not bigotting

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Ive probably been the poster with most number of heated discussions in this board over the years.... and I can assure you I won at least 90% of them.
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post #11675 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 03:01
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It boggles my mind how people don’t recognize the connection between Trump and political correction/sjw. I saw a poll a full 80% of the US thinks political correctness is a serious issue and when everyone in DC abides by a system nobody approves of the guy not following it, is given credence one wouldn’t get if everyone else isn’t acting dumb. He wins by default.
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post #11676 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 03:06
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Originally Posted by camelface View Post
The way I see intersectionality is that it adds more resolution to a sociological view of which groups are less well off. On its own I think it is a fairly harmless idea. You are right though that when people start claiming things from other groups, it gets dicey, and I think that the progression to a more just society should happen slowly and gradually, ie, they shouldn't just affirmative action it up 100%. But a bit of it is fine and good imo, and that is what moderate left or centrist people suggest.
I think anti-discrimination legislation is enough. Even if the intentions might be good I really don't see the benefit of giving handouts based on skin colour or gender. The harm is greater than any potential benefit IMHO.

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When I say that the right has become far right, it puzzles me a bit that you don't see it, but it is Trump, lying everyday, supported by state media, using identity politics himself (white christian), taking benefit from rigged elections, insulting his opponents, making alliances with dictators without being able to keep warm ties with democratic countries, and so on. We are not talking about the average historical Republican...
I asked for policy. I've already conceded that Trump is an asshole. So I'll go over your examples one by one.

It is Trump - Yes it is

Lying every day - That's a lie itself. He does take liberties with the truth though and tells straight up porkies at times. Most of the time it's exaggerations or misrepresentations though.

Supported by the state media - What?

Using identity politics himself (white Christian) - I assume you're referring to him catering to the Christian voter base by claiming that no one has ever done more for Christians and so on. Yeah, I'm not religious so I don't agree with his pandering to the religious right. I don't see how it's far right though.

Taking benefit from rigged elections - Citation needed, "muh Russian collusion" doesn't quite cut it.

Insulting his opponents - Yes, he's a prick. Again, how is that necessarily far right?

Making alliances with dictators - So? How is that unique to the right or Trump? The US has always chosen their allies based on political expedience rather than ethical considerations. Have you forgotten about Obama being the private little drone strike boy of the Saudis? If anything Trump actually tried taking a more hardline stance against the Saudis before the oil money apparently got to him as well.

If these are your best arguments for why the mainstream right has become the far right I could just as easily use the same type of arguments to claim that the left has become the far right.
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ha! i read about height. nacka, you are mongoloid.
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Last edited by Nacka; November 5th, 2018 at 03:12.
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post #11677 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 04:35
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@HajdukSplit , looks like you are going to have a Rep senator
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post #11678 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 04:55
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Nah, Menendez is looking pretty good, despite all the sleaze.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ndez-6506.html

Not bigotting

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Ive probably been the poster with most number of heated discussions in this board over the years.... and I can assure you I won at least 90% of them.
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post #11679 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 04:56
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Originally Posted by camelface View Post
The way I see intersectionality is that it adds more resolution to a sociological view of which groups are less well off. On its own I think it is a fairly harmless idea. You are right though that when people start claiming things from other groups, it gets dicey, and I think that the progression to a more just society should happen slowly and gradually, ie, they shouldn't just affirmative action it up 100%. But a bit of it is fine and good imo, and that is what moderate left or centrist people suggest.

When I say that the right has become far right, it puzzles me a bit that you don't see it, but it is Trump, lying everyday, supported by state media, using identity politics himself (white christian), taking benefit from rigged elections, insulting his opponents, making alliances with dictators without being able to keep warm ties with democratic countries, and so on. We are not talking about the average historical Republican...
Do you regard equality of opportunity and the removal of barriers to entry based on race, gender, etc. as things to strive for? Most people would say yes and in fact, this was the crux of MLK's dream for black folk.

Content of character and not color of one's skin. In other words, the ultimate goal is a colorless society. For the avoidance of doubt, this goes to the issue of discrimination and does not necessitate that all cultures should be destroyed or homogenized.

The upshot of identity politics policy flies in the face of the above. Segregation is promoted and there is an obsession with race, gender, etc. In fact, these become the very things on which a person is primarily judged or assessed. You can't move towards a colorless society when you constantly frame everything in terms of color.

Is that a bad thing? Yes, of course it is. Let's go back to fundamentals and look at the most basic rationale. Why is racism bad? Because it prevents people from exercising rights that should be available to them as citizens. It alienates people and can even be mental torture in many cases. We recognize this and seek to stamp it out. Identity politics doesn't do this because the very fundamentals of the ideology look to create different hierarchies which can and do come into conflict with each other. Not only this; it is extremely ineffective since it doesn't look at harm suffered by individuals (which seems logically like something you necessarily need to look at if you're concerned with addressing harm to all). It instead looks at harm suffered by groups. It fails to consider the variance within groups in terms of harm suffered. So homeless white people who live in hardship are ignored. A black trust fund student from a millionaire family who can pretty much do anything they like gets to benefit from affirmative action (while an equally deserving black student from a very low income family does not) and complain about hardship in their lives.

For the record, I think that some affirmative action is required to help make strides towards a colourless society. Of course, this should be targeted to those in need and not the highly inaccurate and ineffective broad brush approach that identity politics leads to.

Unless the mechanics of the above are wrong (feel free to refute any of it), this leads to a a bit of a fork in the road. (A) Do you want to help individuals overcome discrimination in the most effective way possible? (B) Or do you only want to selectively help certain groups? (C) Or do you just want to pretend to go with either of the above and look like you care while you do it?

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post #11680 of 17385 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2018, 05:08
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Nah, Menendez is looking pretty good, despite all the sleaze.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ndez-6506.html
Hugins internal polling shows him up +2. RCP averages are always a little meh....trust me, I've been following them for at least 10 years

https://freebeacon.com/politics/hugi...y-senate-race/

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