Interesting history on race....... - Page 2 - Xtratime Community
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post #21 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 16:24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pila
I have no problem printing hate propaganda if it's to expose them for what they are. I think everyone should see it and be aware of it, with that hopes the most people have a common sense of decency and righteousness. In most cases, it pays to be aware.

In the words of Ice Cube:

"Knowledge is power"

Exactly. Ignoring it because it's unpleasant is for more dangerous than it's existance to begin. Ignore it and you allow it.

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post #22 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 17:01
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedEagle
[Quote]I found this interesting piece at:
http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr22p.htm

Ok first of if your sensitive to race issues don't read this, frankly in the now pollitically correct world this is probably considered racist so marco, razor, dan delete if you think it will offend too many people, personally I found it very intresting but just my opinion.

Anyway the point I wanted to draw to you was the bit in yellow at the bottom. A case of how political correctness is changing history
Quote:


My problem with is the initial post and those who think SLB is entitled to post it here.

To me it's clearly someone trying to convince people to read and visit a racist site in other words propaganda. He provides a link to the article and to the site.

It would be the same if I posted a link of a child porn site with the words "interesting" on it. I could do it, but is it beneficial in any way to these forums. The answer is an obvious no at least imo.

We need to be a little bit more sensitive about what we write and thus the integrity of the forums remains. What SLB's post does is it slowly kills any integrity the forums might have.

[Edited by RedEagle on 02-05-2001 at 17:26]


Good point and I agree if SLB's intention was to spread racial dogma. The topic is totally off topic and potentially offensive, but doesn't necessarily drag down integrity. Integrity is a subjective term, anyway. I think the disection and showing the flaws of racial supremist thought is very integral.


Spreading racial propaganda is not the same as child porn. One is a violent crime and the other is a line of thinking which can be agreed with or not. I understand your concern. The last thing I want to see is the forums turn to a vehicle for promoting any agenda, whether it be upsetting or politically correct.

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post #23 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 17:04
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in the US is it legal to spread hate propoganda?

I just ask because I think in Canada, I think, it is illegal...gonna go brush up on that subject tonight.

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post #24 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 17:17
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It's protected by the freedom of speech laws. Nazis and Klansmen have the right to speak and collect just like anybody else. What they can't do is openly incite violence and the like. I don't agree with anything these groups say, but I do believe they have the right to say it.

At one point, nobody wanted to hear that blacks deserved equal rights. Such talk was considered anti-american in some areas (FBI). However, they civil rights leaders had the right to speak. The Klansmen and assorted morons have the same rights. It's our job to make sure their dogma never takes hold with the majority. That's the only way it would have any effect on us.

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post #25 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 17:54
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I don't think it's the government's job to decide what should be heard. PERIOD.

I hate bigotry more than anything else in the world with the exception of censorship.

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post #26 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pila
I don't think it's the government's job to decide what should be heard. PERIOD.


Amen. That much power and you'd be surprised how quickly we turn into a dictaorship or a totalitarian regime.

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post #27 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:21
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Once a government gains control of censorship, it's only a matter of time before your views or deemed "hate" propaganda.

I may not like what the KKK, Neo-Nazi groups have to say, but I'll fight for their right to say it.

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post #28 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:25
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Saying it here is uncalled for!

X-time is not the NY Times or the Washington Post. I don't come to the forums to get editorial on current events or on how the PC movement is affecting racist dogma. A delicate balance needs to be applied by all posters in order to keep X-time free of propaganda, and personal agendas. If we cross the line then it doesn't become fun.

....There was also a conspiracy against Sporting to keep them out of 1st place by 26 points. The conspiracy is about to be revealed in a public judicial forum soon enough. It's hasn't anything to do with Golden whistles, but with Golden Showers, as Sporting Administration and coaching has conspired to piss all over themselves this season.
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post #29 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:26
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Like Larry Flynt, Hustler magazine publisher and smut peddler, said, "It the government will protect a guy like me, what do you think they'll do you?"



He's right. Unless we protect the rights of every person, no matter how distasteful, none of us is truly protected. As soon as we selectively defends civil rights the sooner we all start to lose them.

OK, I realize I sound like freaking Thomas Jefferson, but it's the truth.

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post #30 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:29
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It's hard to disagree with that, Red. But, luckily this turned into an interesting discussion on our views of freedom, politics and child molesters and not a KKK rally.

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post #31 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:35
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I'm leaning towards Red's position regarding context and the appropriateness of venue. A problem is that we have some reasonable and intelligent people participating (present company of course), but the ignorant zealots and hyper-opinionated half-wits just forge ahead blindly with their agendas. It gets boring and old and pointless.
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post #32 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:45
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Personally, I've overstated my points and will seize, from this moment on, my participation on the discussion as my way of pushing the thread to the bottom of the page and inevitably into cyber oblivion.

It is always better to let nature take its course, imo.

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post #33 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:54
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Cease if you must Pila... but please don't seize. You would collapse on your keyboard.

I guess if we see a post from you reading "...po8 hq[40[cm5y1[0xip c 94pchp4tncno4pwvm0u4hrcmjkfdg", we'll know you've gone down. So to speak.
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post #34 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 18:57
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BWahahahaha!

Cease! I meant cease!

Thanks for forcing me to regress on my promise, Freddie!

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post #35 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 19:14 Thread Starter
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Ok first off it was an OT post like about a quarter of the posts on the portuguese forum are and I did tell Marco, Dan and Razor to deltete the post if they thought right. Marco closed the thread and I had no qualms with that. I was also not the one who asked for the re-opening of the post.

To Redeagle. I'm killing the integrity of the forum. How, exactly? To the next thing, 'someone as intelligent as SLB couldn't distinguish between what is interesting and what is clearly mundane.' Well RedE you do not know me at all, for all you know I could be a complete no hoper who knows nothing, but then again I could be a top student at oxford. So you don't know how intelligent I am and posting this post has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence.

For the record I don't agree with the article that blacks were responsible for the downfall of Portugal, I mean according to the article Im black anyway. But yes, I did find the article interesting. As for using it for propaganda. For what exactly, what the hell is going to use this on xtratime where 2/300 people at max are going to read this achieve for me, a platform for world domination

To Pila, 'it is racist in this politically correct world and the other.' Pila Im not sure what type of history you got taught but to discriminate against blacks up to until about 60/70 years ago was pefectly normal. Take America until the Jim crow laws were intorduced where blacks became seperate but equal, blacks were treated as second class citizens. When the jim crow laws were introduced not much actually changed but it was a first step.

As for comparing racism to child molestars.....please...give me a break!!!!
Racism varies depending on your point of view, but extreme racism is essentially a right wing political ideology. Some people would say me saying "I hate spain" would be racist whilst others not. Recently a British soldier got thrown out of the army because he had a tatoo of the British flag on his arm....which was racist.

My point was about political correctness. If anything exists, in England anyway IMO it is racism towards whites. Political corectness is shown perfectly in the article. Changing what the encyclopedia said because it said 'black.' Would it have done the same if it had said white, No I don't think so. Recently here in England in Oldham a group of young asians assaulted a white war veteran. The British National Party ( a nationalistic political party, not racist but then again they are nationalistic so probably racist!) went on to GMTV (the top morning program in the UK) for an interview. As I speak there is a demonstartion outside GMTV's studios because it is racist to have someone from a nationalist party on television. Political correctness gone mad. Still in relation with this attack I was watching an interview where the local asian minister from Oldham was talking about the attack. The interviewer asks doesn't he think that it is wrong that asian youths can do this, the minister responds 'yes, but they have nothing else to do' Great nothing to do lets beat up war veterans If a white minister had said this I guarentee you that he would not have had a job by now.

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post #36 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 19:25
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Quote:
Originally posted by SLB
To Pila, 'it is racist in this politically correct world and the other.' Pila Im not sure what type of history you got taught but to discriminate against blacks up to until about 60/70 years ago was pefectly normal. Take America until the Jim crow laws were intorduced where blacks became seperate but equal, blacks were treated as second class citizens. When the jim crow laws were introduced not much actually changed but it was a first step.

SLB, what the hell are you talking about? What does history on discrimination practices and timelines have to do with the fact that the author's agenda on the piece you posted is pure racism?

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post #37 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 19:32 Thread Starter
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My point is that the author's agenda is that blacks caused the downfall of portugal. You claim that it is racist in this or any other world. My point is that it wouldn't have been racist 60/70 years ago as it was common practice to put the blame on blacks/discriminate against blacks. ie. If you were living in a society 60 or 70 years ago it would not be seen as racist.

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post #38 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 19:47
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You couldn't be more wrong, SLB. Racism is a byproduct of fear and ignorance and has little to do with the times. As people became more educated on the difference in races and cultures the less, they learned, they had to fear.

Education is the only factor between the times of yesteryear and today. Just because 150 years ago it was more widely accepted, it doesn't make it any less racist.

As for the absurd notion of interracial mingling had anything to do with the downfall of any society, I fail to see how that happened exactly. He merely mentions a bunch of inaccurate historical events but makes no attempt at exactly how that ties in with the racial mingling. He blames interracial mingling but fails to explain how exactly it leads to the downfall of any society. These guys are reaching so badly it's pathetic. Unfortunately, he seems to have tapped into your own xenophobic feelings.

[Edited by Pila on 02-05-2001 at 21:06]

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post #39 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 20:09 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pila
As for the absurd notion of interracial mingling had anything to do with the downfall of any society, I fail to see how that happened exactly. He merely mentions a bunch of inaccurate historical events but makes no attempt at exactly how that ties in with the racial mingling. He blames interracial mingling but fails to explain how exactly it leads to the downfall of any society. These guys are reaching so badly it's pathetic. Unfortunately, he seems to have tapped into your own xenophobic feelings.
How exactly has he tapped in to my xenophobic feelings? I have said I disagree with the article in my above post and do think that the claim to blame portugal's downfall on intermingling is absurd. However, in saying that he is stating his point of view and because he blames blacks he is racist (sorry I'm using he could be she! don't want to be acused of sexism now as well!). If he was to make the same statement but blame say the spanish people it would be equally as absurd but as we are talking about a culture that by society if discriminated against is not racist then it is considered not to be racist.

However I completely disagree with you that racism is a by product of racism and ignorance. Fear of other races, why exactly?!?! Ignorant of other races?!?! 60/70 years ago evryone knew that africans had a diffirent culture like they do today. Racism in my opinion is just an ideology.

So your telling me that 60 or 70 years ago they weren't actually racist but what they were is less educated. Even if that was the case it doesn't stop the fact blacks were treated as second class citizens and that this is racism so back to my point this article would not have been racist 60/70 years ago.

Back to my original point of political correctness. It was some muslim festival last month and there is a large asian community in my area. Now the asians were allowed to sing, chant have a party in the town centre market and allowed to put up flags anywhere they wanted. Yet on st.georges day (patron saint of england) last week, the local govt banned anyone wearing an england shirt and banned any englsih flags to be displayed on any home windows or in public. I mean first off double standards, but second off what is the world comming to when someone cannot celebrate their nationality. Again political correctness gone mad.

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post #40 of 295 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 2001, 20:28
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Wrong!

You can call it an ideology, I suppose. But, the root fo that ideology is the same product of fear and ignorance.

It's not fear of races and cultures per se, but fear of the unknown and different. Humans being extremely visually centric will note the obvious differences in skin color, hair etc. Knowing that someone is different is not the same as knowing the differences/similarities. Instinctively, evolution has taught us to fear differences as a defense mechanism. It was essential for survival and claims of territory back in the days of cave drawings. However, I'd like to think that we've extended beyond basic animal instincts and left the door open to expand beyond visual physical characteristics as a means to understand and co-exist. Hence, as familiarity grew and people began seeing beyond aged stereotypes they learned that the differences were easily outnumbered by similarities and thus became more tolerant.

So, "yes"! People are much more educated in terms of the differences and similarities between peoples now than they ever were.




[Edited by Pila on 02-05-2001 at 21:40]

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