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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 11:11 Thread Starter
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Em BRASA!
in A Bola, 14.01.06

É latente a tensão que existe no balneário do campeão nacional. Depois de na segunda-feira Luisão ter agredido Karagounis, durante o treino, ontem foi a vez do insuspeitíssimo Anderson pontapear violentamente Fabrizio Miccoli. Uma situação que Ronald Koeman geriu no seu estilo habitual: foi ter com o central e conversou com ele, calma e tranquilamente, procurando explicações para o sucedido. Aqui e ali, notam-se fricções que antes pareciam não existir.

O caso só não foi mais grave porque os companheiros separaram Miccoli e Anderson. Decorria a parte final do treino, realizado ontem de manhã, no campo principal do Estádio Nacional. Os jogadores disputavam tranquilamente um jogo de treino até que sucede o inesperado: a agressão de Anderson a Miccoli. Tudo aconteceu muito rápido: o italiano recebeu uma bola de costas e levou um toque no pé por parte do defesa-central. O avançado não caiu e a bola fugiu-lhe ligeiramente para a frente, com Anderson a voltar à carga. Percebendo isso mesmo, Miccoli fez um compasso de espera, rodou ligeiramente a anca e levantou o cotovelo direito, para se proteger e ao mesmo tempo responder na mesma moeda ao embate iminente. O choque de peito com costas foi rijo e terá sido esse o motivo que levou o brasileiro a fazer o inesperado: pontapeou o colega com a perna direita, levantando-o do chão, tal a violência do gesto. A reacção de Miccoli foi a esperada: virou-se imediatamente, irado, e só não ocorreram mais desenvolvimentos porque a pronta intervenção dos colegas foi determinante, especialmente os que estavam mais próximos, casos do grego Karagounis, Alcides e Petit. Foi preciso mais algum tempo para o transalpino acalmar e deixar de representar uma ameaça física para o colega. Que mais parecia um adversário.

Pedagogia de Koeman

Koeman estava longe mas quando viu a agressão ordenou o final da sessão. Não fez alarido, caminhou a passo e procurou imediatamente conversar com o brasileiro. Fê-lo de uma forma pedagógica, pedindo-lhe calma. Anderson ainda abanou a cabeça como que a dizer "não tenho a culpa", mas o técnico insistiu no diálogo sereno, até que o central caísse em si. Terminado o puxão de orelhas, o central rumou ao autocarro. Miccoli foi atrás, mas por precaução Nuno Gomes fez questão de acompanhar o italiano. Quando se sentou no vermelhão, sacou imediatamente do telemóvel e não quis falar com ninguém. Apesar de admissível, a cena não é muito comum e no caso de Anderson pode dizer-se que será mesmo inesperada. O ex-capitão do Corinthians é dos elementos mais calmos do plantel, conhecido pela sua imensa correcção dentro e fora de campo. Forma-se cada vez mais a ideia de que o episódio de ontem não terá sido apenas casual. O ambiente no balneário não parece ser o mesmo de há um mês, antes da chegada de reforços e, nomeadamente, a saída de Quim da baliza - independentemente da qualidade do brasileiro Moretto - não terá sido muito bem digerida pelos colegas. Será este um dos pequenos grãos que parecem estar a criar fricções numa engrenagem que tem dado, contudo, excelentes resultados: sete vitórias consecutivas.

"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.”
Nelson Mandela
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 13:40
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its of coz koemans fault, mainly for 2 reasons imo:

- putting moretto in the starting line-up out of nowehere, and totally humiliating one of our most professional players
- playing beto every single game for the all 90m in spite of him being by far our worst player

the players clearly undertsand that working rate and good exibitions grant them nothing , so they are stresssed and frustrated...
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 17:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inacio
its of coz koemans fault, mainly for 2 reasons imo:

- putting moretto in the starting line-up out of nowehere, and totally humiliating one of our most professional players
- playing beto every single game for the all 90m in spite of him being by far our worst player

the players clearly undertsand that working rate and good exibitions grant them nothing , so they are stresssed and frustrated...
If he's so professional, then what's the problem?

And who do you expect him to play instead of Beto? Manuel Fernandes was injured, still is. He played some minutes against Paços with an elastic thingy around his waist, and was left out of the cup game because they didn't wanna take any chances.
Aguiar was never an option, and now he's gone, so you only have Beto.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 17:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gein
If he's so professional, then what's the problem?
He just got metaphorically bitch-slapped, that's the problem. Koeman does not treat him as a professional. A coach with slight reason would hold on to a keeper that kept his goal clean in five exhibitions counting.

I don't intend to raise my voice against Moretto, whom I rate very highly, but I, as so many Benfiquistas these days, feel I have to raise my voice for Quim since I honestly feel he was treated in an unprofessional and unfair way.
And I am the utmost sure it will go on as it is.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 18:05
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Gein, what koeman did was very wrong, and more, extremely dangerous for the stability of the team...

quim has been able to, with more or less dificulties because of his injury, defend our net with success....replacing him in the 1st possible occasion by a player who had arrived less than a week before, is not only very unethical , it is plain stupid .

he humiliated quim, he showed everyone in the team that it doesnt matter if u work hard or u perform well, because in the end its all up to the coaches very subjective choices...this can ruin any working group, be it in football or in any other professional situation

competition is one thing, lack of reasonable and objective criteria (and simple common sense) when picking up a team to play, is quite different.

and mind you, this is not good for moretto either....

as for beto....he was chosen to play over manuel yes, but also over karagounis who finally had a good performance in the previous game he played....the outcome? bench

beto plays bad game after game , he is pathetic, and yet he is treated as an unquestionable starter, and if he cant play in the middle he will play on the wing, and if someone has to come out, anyone will do, even petit lol

and this is another thing that shows koeman's poor HRM ability, because he is sending out the message: playing crap is no reason to stay out of the first 11

he has to motivate his players, not do the opposite, and if u dont feel u can trust in ur leader's "fairness", u simply stop caring

this has been a very tight group, i hope we dont start falling appart
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 18:11
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I still dont understand why the Former P.S.V player is still coaching Benfica....... :frustrat: :irritate: :thmbdown:
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 20:04
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First point - Karagounis is not an alternative to Beto. If you think that the greek can play as a DM, you're wrong. Plus, pay close atention to the last games and you will see that Beto is playing a few meters behing Petit, exactly because of his dificulties in passing and constructing. So, once again, there is no one to take Betos' place. We will have to wait until Manuel Fernandes gets better. The stupid mistake of placing him on the right wing is, I'm sure, a thing of the past. If Koeman has shown us something is that he can learn from his mistakes.

Second point - Quim. The first thing every player in the team should know is that there is no such thing as favours. The only criteria to play is, or should be, being better than the rest. If you want to play the next game, you got to prove yourself. Why should it be different for Quim? Because he played a couple of games without being 100%? A lot of players do that, and with Quim it actually costed us points in the SL. But, like they say, sh*t happens, and we can't hold him for that, because I'm sure he did his best.
But, the question is, do we owe him anything? As football professional? So why should the coach stop evaluating the other keepers capacitys and let Quim play?
Moretto is no stranger. He was the GK for the best defense in all european championships, he played in our league, speaks our language, and Benfica continues without suffering goals (maybe it's not the keepers merit, but that would hold for both Quim and Moretto).
Not only that, he's much better than Quim at corners and crosses. When was the last time you had a keeper that didn't punch the ball at the first chance? Michel?

I understand that Quim may be upset, but Benficas' interests come first than his. If he's such a good professional (and I think he his) he'll understand that, as I'm sure he did last year when Trap put him in place for Moreira, even though Moreira had done nothing wrong.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 21:12
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i dont think karagounis can play as a DM, but he can do midfield ball contention...why do we have to play with 2 pure DMs?

manuel is not a pure DM, and he works perfect with petit because of that...

imo, a team like benfica, who needs to win every game, shouldnt play with two pure DMs unless it doesnt have a choice.
we should play a DM and then have a player ahead who can do both ball contention and pass forward, "think the game"

beto is petit's replacement...that is all...he is unable to pass forward, but he is also poor defending.

petit is what? our midfielder brain? petit is a pure DM and he is great at it...but we cant rely on him to be the main responsible for constructing our game in the midfield.

Manuel could imo...and so could karagounis, either of them playing ahead of petit...our midfield would be way more dynamic than what we have been seeing

as for quim...u cant possibly compare what happend between quim and moreira last year, with what has happend this year with moretto:
- last season moreira was replaced after a terrible game with belenenses (not saying it was all his fault), and by a player who had been in the team since the beginning of the season...not a couple days earlier....

moretto may even become the best keeper in the world....his qualities (or lack of them) are not at stake here.
he should never have been given 1st team place in his 1st opportunity...its simply wrong, how can koeman tell quim or any other player to earn its place in the starting eleven by working, if he gives a player who has just arrived the starting spot?
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 21:18
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What about Nuno Assis? I'd be pissed if i were him, watching Beto get some serious playng time and him none. Karyaka too, not saying that you don't need an extra defensive presence sometimes, but Karyaka played pretty good against Porto, Nuno Assis played well agains Manchester United, these are all things that get in a player's head, have a good game and go back to the bench.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 21:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filipe Reis
Em BRASA!
in A Bola, 14.01.06
É latente a tensão que existe no balneário do campeão nacional.
They got that right,campeão nacional.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old January 14th, 2006, 21:42
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I disagree. Not with the idea that we should play with just a pure DM and another one closer to a box-to-box, but thinking that Karyaka, Karagounis or even Assis can be that player. They lack intensity, stamina and a sense of responsability to the teams defensive "phase" (as it's called now). Manuel Fernandes? Yes, but he's not OK, so it has to be Petit, with Beto filling Petits old shoes.

As for Quim, I agree it was not the nicest thing to him, but until someone can prove me that Benfica team got weaker (or even the same) with Moretto, I won't raise my voice against Koeman on this one. Players egos are not my concern, the teams results are.
I've been let down time and time again by this prima-donnas payed in gold (not all, of course), so I have become somewhat insensitive to their professional "dramas".
If Quim think it's unfair, it's up to him to change it. Prove them wrong or move on.

Anyway, this stuff happens all the time, only this time the press cared. Nobody cared when Nelson entered the team with just a couple of trainings. Or Miccoli (in Alvalade, BTW), or that Dos Santos never gets a chance, no matter what, etc.

(I can imagine the fuss when Moreira returns...)
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old January 15th, 2006, 02:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gein
Nobody cared when Nelson entered the team with just a couple of trainings
That's because most of us would rather play with 10 men than having Joao Pereira lose balls left and right on the field.

Can't argue with Micoli and the rest of the guys though.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old January 15th, 2006, 03:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleber
I still dont understand why the Former P.S.V player is still coaching Benfica....... :frustrat: :irritate: :thmbdown:
There's actually a reason, the only reason, really:
"Benfica 2-1 Manchester United"
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old January 15th, 2006, 06:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiraMarense
There's actually a reason, the only reason, really:
"Benfica 2-1 Manchester United"
Guess that we agree in something for the first time....

Yeah,any coach apart from Couceiro and Luis castro?!!! :eekani: :thmbdown: ,will have the same points that Koeman have in the league athe moment......

How can i forget Alvalade game,Lille game away,Leixoes game,Braga,Academica and so on.....
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