Art in Context 12 : Bad Boys and Girls in Art - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2005, 02:25 Thread Starter
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Art in Context 12 : Bad Boys and Girls in Art

Who's your bad boy or bad girl in art history?

For me, football is irrationality, tribal, passionate... - Almogāver
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2005, 15:22 Thread Starter
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Leonardo da Vinci (Italian 1452-1519), painter, draftsman, sculptor, architect, and engineer whose Lats Supper (1495-97) and Mona Lisa (1503-06) epitomize the Renaissance humanist ideal. But Leonardo also promoted wars and weapons as a draftsman for hire.


Leonardo da Vinci, Lady with an Ermine, 1483-90;
Oil on wood, 53.4 x 39.3 cm; coll. Czartoryski Museum, Cracow.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2005, 18:15
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Voltaire (And here is Bonita thinking "Voltaire, again ?" ) , either the legendary Voltaire with all bad that Rousseau fans would label him , greedy, envious, vengenceful, tyranical. Or the real one, which a Ego twice the size of earth, a keen and pratical sense of economics making him rich and, the great defender of freedom who had profity with slave trafic from Africa (Which by the way, Rousseau had also. No "nyah" to Rousseaulians! )...Voltaire is so rich that he includes with himself the Anti-Voltaire.

Now to give an answer that does not starts with "V", Wagner.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old April 14th, 2005, 01:25 Thread Starter
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Amidst the sound and fury we have lately, here's Bonita thinking: make no appointments, have no disappointments

But to be born with an innate gift for discipline and punishment as well as a perpetual quest for passion and the ideal -- that is the eternal torture of modern day Germans.

Bad he was. Then again, how can one resist Wagner's Tristan und Isolde Overture?

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old April 14th, 2005, 01:27 Thread Starter
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In today's New York Times - a very bad university

Secret Service at Art Show (source: nytimes.com 13 April 2005)

Secret Service agents visited a new exhibition of politically infused art at Columbia College in Chicago, where they asked for the artists' names and phone numbers and photographed some works, The Chicago Sun-Times reported yesterday. The show, "Axis of Evil, the Secret History of Sin," running through May at the college's Glass Curtain Gallery, presents works by 47 artists from 11 countries showing political and religious leaders on fake postage stamps. "Patriot Act" is a series of mock 37-cent stamps depicting President Bush with a gun pointed at his head. "Citizen John Ashcroft" assembles the face of the former attorney general from images of naked bodies at Abu Ghraib, the prison in Iraq. The Sun-Times reported that a Secret Service spokesman, Brandon Bridgeforth, said he could not discuss specifics of the visit, which took place last week shortly before the show opened. "We're just looking into it," he said. In a telephone interview yesterday, Micki Leventhal, the director of media relations for the college, said: "We are an arts school, and we are committed to academic freedom, artistic expression, freedom of speech. We are committed to that. We stand by that. We stand by this show. Art is meant to challenge and to make people question, and I think this show succeeds admirably in that."

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old April 14th, 2005, 04:52
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I find hard to resit Tristan and Isolde alone. With music...
Talking about freedom of speech, one name not starting with "V" that I thought to say instead of Wagner was Elia Kazan. Great director, able to get the best of the actors, and...
This make me remember a documentary that focus the images made by, without doubt, talented Lili Rienfestahl (talking about germans, talking about the torture they live, thinking about the Devil they play with, and Thoman Mann who is not a suitable answer for this topic by the way), she was a great director without doubt. The Documentary is from sweden, from a director named Peter Cohen, the english name is something like Architecture of Destruction (and the theme is of course not the image, but the Nazism work of culture control, good one anyways...)

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old April 14th, 2005, 12:12
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Bad boy: Andy Warhole: I can't help it but (a) his work (leave the Velvet Underground out of this ) leaves me stone cold and (b) I really dispise his commercialisation of art. You might say making a product out of his work was all irony, but irony ain't irony if you're making tons of money out of it

Bad girl: Leni Riefenstahl: for obvious reasons.

We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace!

26.000 Faces :frownani:
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old April 14th, 2005, 16:42
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I won't leave! Lou Reed and John Cale, bad, bad! The fought among themselves! They shouldn't have.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old April 14th, 2005, 16:51
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He'd have like that spelling of his name, no doubt.
Mine is not Caravaggio, although he was always brawling and getting exiled, but Gabriele D'Annunzio, the Symbolist/Romantic poet and, er, adventurer. Never much of a subtle fellow, D'Annunzio first made his name by looking just the way a young boy poet was supposed to look in the 1880 (slim, shy, girlish) and thus being picked up by various older aethetes of the day. He ran up debts and managed a long-time affair with Eleonora Duse, Sarah Bernhardt's great rival actress while he lived in, natch, Paris. An odd looking man, bald and maybe 5'5", D'Annunzio bragged that he "cuckolded 30,000 husbands" and gained the reputation as the man of the hour, so to speak, in the 1890s. Robert de Montesquiou kept him much in the manner that Wagner had been kept by Ludwig of Bavaria. Running up huge debts, while writing, among other remembered flights of fancy, Il Piove, Il Fuoco, Il Piacere, La Citta Morta and the libretto for Debussy's Sant Sebastian, D'Annunzio still found time to have public and well chronicled affairs with every prominent woman of the day. Driven out of France by his debts, D'Annunzio built a fantasticly over-done Romantic villa in Italy (after forcing Duse to tour the provinces 50 times to raise the money), where he lived in camp splendor. For example, he had plaster casts made of Michelangelo's slaves and had them dressed in silk couture by Poiret. During WWI he finagled a commission as a flyer and spent much of the war doing such non-productive activities as scattering propaganda poems of his own device over Vienna and Berlin and being highly decorated by the state. After the War, he moved in the obvious direction of the camp-aesthete and into a sort of aesthetic Fascism, which with its uniforms and over-all style was an obvious lateral move. Leading a bunch of troops in predictably silly oufits, he actually took over the Adriatic port of what is today Rijeka, Croatia (and was then a disputed city between Yugoslavia and Iatly) and ruled it for a while as a seperate nation. The whole operation collapsed of its own ridiculousity and the fact the city itself was almost wholly populated by Croats who didn't appreciate the Italo-chavinism inherent in the poet's aesthetic, as D'Annunzio spent much of his time haranging the troops from a balcony for hours on end and changing into new and sillier uniforms several times per day. He was pretending to be his historical hero, Cola di Rienzo. When forced to give up "his" city to Yugoslav and allied forces, D'Annunzio, who liked to be addressed as "Duce", was told by an aide that his army had spent two months occupying the city, he corrected him by saying, "Not so my friend! We have been in Fiume (the Italian name for Rijeka) for sixty days of passion and sixty nights of anguish!" Then he quit the city and returned to his villa and fancy decorations. Quite a character, that Gabriele.

You know the scene it's very hum-drum
And my favorite song's entitled "Boredom"...
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old April 15th, 2005, 02:26 Thread Starter
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Couldn't agree with ye more, Heather :thmbup: And I guess I have never told you how much I appreciated your unformatted text. It is like one of those "across-tics" puzzels in the NY Times. After a while, I start to see new words ...

When I look at anything Warhol, I always think about Miguel-Angel, my Venezuelian intern who left home early to escape Chavez's crack down on local artists. I don't like all of Warhol's work nor do I completely dislike Chavez's policies. But to think of a 21-year-old artist who was inspired enough by Andy to risk jail sentence or even death! When I look at Warhol's life, I see, beyond the pretense, pioneers in music [just can't part with the Velvet's Banana album], theatre [do you folks remember the late Lance Loud, and the Tv series An American Family?] and best of all, Paul Morrissey who directed all of Andy's films [Lonesome Cowboy, Nude Restaurant, Heat, Flesh, Trash, Sleep ...] These people -- bad or good -- breathed life into the art world. Just think, what would the name gOD be without the humble little g?

Che. One cannot bear to imagine an aged Che. Lou Reed. His tragedy is that he lives too long, beyond All Tomorrow's Children, Heroin, White Light, White Heat, Berlin; even Coney Island Baby. This world -- XT included -- is so full of ironies, no,J?



My favourite bad boy of the hour remains to be Damien Hirst.


Damien Hirst (British, born 1965), Autopsy With Brain Out, 2004,
oil on canvas, colln Gagosian Gallery, NYC.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old April 15th, 2005, 04:19
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Such fine ironies...Once someone achived immortality there should be no way to that person to step back and share our mortality with us again. It does not fit.

I remember Lima Barreto. Great brazilian writer, anti-racist, dense. Was a bad boy however, hated football with passion

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old April 15th, 2005, 16:49
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I've a problem with the indent key. It doesn't work for me.
Thanks for posting a picture of my auntie.

You know the scene it's very hum-drum
And my favorite song's entitled "Boredom"...
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old April 16th, 2005, 02:38 Thread Starter
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No blaming the indent key, Heather, it's your writing that sings!

Yes, J, such fine ironies. In the film Breathless, the rookie reporter [played by the other-worldly Jean Seberg] asked the has-been: "What is the most important thing in life?" Answered the has-been: "To be immortal, then die." Truffaut wrote the script to Jean-Luc Godard's first film noir.

Be patient, I will soon get to my all time favourite bad boy: JLG.



A good weekend to you all.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old April 16th, 2005, 03:24
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Breathless...That is the name of this movie in english (in portuguese it is Acossado, but Seberg reference was enough)...Polanski could be in such list also. Even because he cut down when he was in his best (The Pianist is good, but It is nowhere near Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby or Fearless Vampire Killers or, the most funny title: Pardon Me, But Your teeth are in My Neck)...
Talking about Lou Reed, talking about immortality and death, here is a bad boy: Ian Curtis (who was actual faster to die than became immortal) from Joy Division.
I remember a few years when Adjanini Movie about Camille Claudel became short of a cult and at sametime there was an exposition of Rodin here, he became the top Bad Guy.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2005, 21:38 Thread Starter
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Yes, the original title is "Ā bout de souffle" but I bet you still remember the scene in which Jean Seberg blocked Paris traffic with armfuls of newspaper and cries of "Noo Yawk Herald Tribune! Noo Yawk Herald Tribune!"

The Pianist. We can almost guess the current state of mind Polanski must be in by looking at the empty face of Adrien Brody. Bad boy + sad life. Knife in the Water :thmbup:

Rodin the top bad guy. In the bad old days, his behaviour was "normal," no? Much like the behaviour of Modigliani [who actually pushed his mistress out of a high floor window several times].

In all honesty, the few scuptures I have seen by Camille Claudel convince me she was not only on the same level with her significan other but, technically and contextually, more superior.


Camille Claudel (French, 1864-1943) in an undated photograph.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2005, 21:59 Thread Starter
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These two re-define the word bad. Patti Smith. Robert Mapplethorpe. Once upon a time.



Mapplethorpe's photograph of Patti Smith appeared on the cover of her first album, Horses in the 1970's.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old April 18th, 2005, 05:26
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trully I do not remember the scene, or better, the accent, probally because my english would make her look like perfect. (Still, my favorite scene is the the night scene when Belmondo steals one car and try to find a friend, near the end of the movie)

There is a story of Camoes, you may decide if he is a bad boy or not (but this is a "story", not history, so I knew a friend of my neighbour who told me): He was with her loved girl in a ship, finishing his Lusiadas. Then the ship wrecked and sinked. He got the papers (it was not far from coast) and swimm, then he heard his loved asking for help, drowning. Camoes turned back just to remember he had to let the papers go...He then keep to the coast, put the papers in safety and turned to see, but it was no longer possible to rescue her. Of course Camoes then wrote wonderful poems about his lost love...Our kind of Bad Boy, Bonita ?

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old April 21st, 2005, 01:58 Thread Starter
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He's probably not as much a bad boy than a very clever boy, J, unlike the story of Orpheus and Eurydice.

Btw I like that scene too. I also like the fact that Belmondo lied about his name ("Laslo Kovacs"? The great cinematographer? )

Now, a bad girl of the 17th Century.

In her time [in the male-dominated world of post-Renaissance art. In an era when female artists were limited to portrait painting and imitative poses], Artemisia Gentileschi was considered a bad girl because she was the first woman to paint major historical and religious scenarios. After her death, she drifted into obscurity, her works often attributed to her father [the well-known Roman painter Orazio Gentileschi (1563 - 1639)] or other artists. Mary D. Garrard notes that Artemisia "has suffered a scholarly neglect that is unthinkable for an artist of her calibre." Renewed and overdue interest in Artemisia in recent years has recognized her as a talented seventeenth-century painter and one of the world's greatest female artists.


Artemisia Gentileschi (1593 - 1652/1653), Mary Magdalen, c. 1621-22
Oil on canvas; 1.365m by 1.00m; private collection (in France).

The above is a replica Artemisia Gentileschi painted after her origin [shown below] for the cathedral at Sala del Tesoro, Seville, Spain. There are a number of differences between the two paintings. The most noticeable change is that in the Seville version the veil over the sitter's left shoulder, covers most of the underarm and breast, whereas this is more exposed in this version. It is likely that the larger veil was added at the request of the cathedral for modesty's sake.


Artemisia Gentileschi (1593 - 1652/1653), Mary Magdalen, c. 1621-22,
Oil on canvas, 1.22m by 0.96m, cathedral at Sala del Tesoro, Seville, Spain.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old April 21st, 2005, 02:29
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Ah, I know well Orpheus and Eurydice travel, but you must have now, caused Camoes's ghost to arise from his tomb in pure joy to see him in someway compared with Orpheus(what a great idea you had) to visit you tonight. Learn portuguese quickly...
Talking about Orpheus a bad boy, but really bad boy in his youth, in the old sense of youth that the elders can not control did a play basead in this story, but using Rio de Janeiro, Carnaval and a favela as background; the Great Vinicius de Morais. But his bad boy habits are just a love for many women, beer and doing nothing all day but sit and sing with his friends (which included Tom Jobim)...

There is a bad boy, who was more bad in his own mind and thus we have a lot of voices in his works. Dostoievisky, all the guilty, fear, tormet with alchoholism, too young girls, gambling, communist and revolution and a fear of Good and such wonderfull and almost interminable works...

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Kat: "JCam knows, we do not doubt in him".
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