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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2005, 15:48 Thread Starter
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Art in Context : Discussion 1

Happy New Year, fellow forumers. To begin 2005, I would like to post a weekly discussion thread on art and hope that you will participate. Here we go.

Week One: 3 January, 2005:

1. Where does art rest in society?

2. What, exactly are the functions of art?

3. Is it important for an artist to be a commercial success?

4. If you are an artist, do you wish to be able to earn a good living by selling your work? Is it at all possible?

5. If you are not involved in the creation of art works, do you think art should be promoted as commodity?

Your views?
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2005, 20:00
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1. Where does art rest in society?
Good question. I'm afraid most people see it as a waste of time because it isn't "productive". There isn't a concrete use to it and certainly in our Western society there isn't a bigger sin

2. What, exactly are the functions of art?
Just as religion and science (or to make it less glorious collecting stamps ), I think it's a way of trying to get hold of "life/reality" by portraying it. It goes further than feelings alone but to give 2 examples. The fear of the lmodern man is something difficult to express in everyday words, but if you see The Scream by Munch, you know that's what it is, same for that fearing and sadness of being left by your lover, still when you hear Brel's "Ne me quitte pas" you know realsie immediately that it is that very specific feeling.

As function for me at last, it is a way of stopping everything, and reflecting about stuff.

3. Is it important for an artist to be a commercial success?
Definitely no, the value of art is not the price at Sotheby's. Although for the artist itself it probably matters whether he works under a bridge or in a hip NY-penthouse

4. If you are an artist, do you wish to be able to earn a good living by selling your work? Is it at all possible?
Question is what a good life is. And in that there's a difference between selling your art, and in the end making "a product".

5. If you are not involved in the creation of art works, do you think art should be promoted as commodity?
By a commodity you mean, something everybody should/can have in it's living room?
You know that cheap-supermarket chain Aldi? They started with a line of affortable art. On itself that's noble. Of course it ended up with selling cheap (in the other sence of the word) paintings. Those thinsg were not art they were products. It's teh question whether people want art in their livingroom. I think they don't.

We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace!

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Last edited by gOD; January 4th, 2005 at 08:34.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2005, 23:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonita
Happy New Year, fellow forumers. To begin 2005, I would like to post a weekly discussion thread on art and hope that you will participate. Here we go.

Week One: 3 January, 2005:

1. Where does art rest in society?

2. What, exactly are the functions of art?

3. Is it important for an artist to be a commercial success?

4. If you are an artist, do you wish to be able to earn a good living by selling your work? Is it at all possible?

5. If you are not involved in the creation of art works, do you think art should be promoted as commodity?

Your views?

Is this question posed in relationship to high Art?


1. Art in Wetern Society: I believe that when we look at the evolution of art in the last 100 years we see a movement that has come to an end of a cycle.

Safe to say that Modern Art started with Paul Cezanne and his still life's that became inspiration to the cubist movement. The 20th century art movement started to break down the conventional ideas of the Romanticism, Impressionism and Realism. The idea of Academics and function was revolutionised by the Fauvist, Cubist and into dada and the surrealist....

The century of revolution and the cycle of revolution is now spent.

2. Function of Art: needs to be vangarde to be a reflection of society and to attack the morals and conventions that it is reflecting.

3. Commercial success; No since the spirit of the artist and his relationship to society can not be corrupted by the lure of financial success. In a sense the artist must have contempt for society at large

4. The life of an artist is not easy and the idea of starving for your art may be romantic but not enjoyable, since few artist are recognized in their time

5. High art has become commercial as art dealer are looking for the next movement, they will buy up art work looking to gain success financially as well as a place in art history by finding a new talent.


If you look at the work of Jeff koons, Andres Serrano or Karen Finley, R. Maplethorp the last of the social morales are being attacked and this occured some 20 years ago. Art has come to the end of its cycle in its relationship to society.

As far as what is the new movement in art, that's the million & millions of dollars question
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old January 4th, 2005, 00:24
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1. Where does art rest in society?
Depends of the society, but usually on quite an important place. People have always felt the need to express themselves creatively, from the earliest drawings of cavemen to the modern hotchpotch of different mediums and styles.
2. What, exactly are the functions of art?
Impossible to define. Portraying, reflecting, giving new meanings, taking away meanings, creating order, creating chaos, offering entertainment, offering enlightement...
3. Is it important for an artist to be a commercial success?
Yes, if he/she wants to be financially secure an/or famous. No, if he/she doesn't want that.
4. If you are an artist, do you wish to be able to earn a good living by selling your work?
I quess that most of serious artists want that, as it gives them freedom to do what they want. Otherwise they might be forced spend 8 hours a day doing some office work they don't care about only to make living.
Is it at all possible?
Obviously yes, as many artists are receiving big sums for their work.
5. If you are not involved in the creation of art works, do you think art should be promoted as commodity?
Well, it is already, isn't it?
In most cases there's nothing wrong about that, as gives some few, selected artists a living and gives their work a wide audience.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old January 6th, 2005, 02:00 Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking the time to reply to this thread it's comforting that art and artists are still being thought of in this day and age. I will try to address all your responses [eventually ] but here are some short comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gOD
1. Where does art rest in society?
Good question. I'm afraid most people see it as a waste of time because it isn't "productive". There isn't a concrete use to it and certainly in our Western society there isn't a bigger sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Christ
1. Where does art rest in society?
Depends of the society, but usually on quite an important place. People have always felt the need to express themselves creatively, from the earliest drawings of cavemen to the modern hotchpotch of different mediums and styles.
It's interesting to see these opposing responses - and from opposite corners of Europe

How true, Geert, art is often considerd "a waste of time." I still remember, as a bewildered 5-year-old, being asked by my playmate "why is she using 6 colour crayons when she can use 2 to finish the drawing?" Why? To this date, those who have taken an interest in art are still speechless.

That said, I want to command Andy for his replies.

Art is also regarded highly by collectors becuase it isn't "productive." The common complaint about a work of art is: "My child can do that." Well, what they were trying to say is: "I can't understand it," or "What can I use this for?" To better answer these questions, high prices are put on certain art work. Now, the new complaint, or question, becomes: "What is its investment value?"

I guess human beings are always looking for methods to elevate their own status. To become the owner of something entirely useless is, in a way, an effective mode of social climbing. (You know, Heather and I have a favourite author, Thorsten Veblen who mentioned this and other items in his infamous and humourous book "The Theory of the Leisure Class.")

Still, that doesn't explain the real motives for creation. I don't think one should even try. Art is, after all, just art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Che
If you look at the work of Jeff koons, Andres Serrano or Karen Finley, R. Maplethorp the last of the social morales are being attacked and this occured some 20 years ago. Art has come to the end of its cycle in its relationship to society.

As far as what is the new movement in art, that's the million & millions of dollars question
I was reading a new book on China's Cultural Revolution and found this amusing passage. In the mid 1970s, Premiere Chou En-lai was asked what he thought of the French Revolution. Chou paused for a second and answered: "It's too early to tell."

Art movements is an illusive entity. We cannot proclaim the birth or death of any movements because art, unlike science, cannot be quantify. Textbooks can tell us that "Cezanne is the father of modern art," then again, who influenced Cezanne but the neo-classicist Ingre and the Realist Puvis de Chavannes. Robert Mapplethorpe was a person who wanted to make photographs of people in his circle and became known as a master for doing that. The fact that his work got tangled up with Jesse Helms' accusations was pure chance. (Helms would have swiped at any other names in the arts if RM or Karen Finley hadn't come along. To destroy the National Endowment for the Arts was a mandate of the Reagan administration.) If you look closely at Mapplethorpe's photographs, you will find that they are -- well besides those of male nudes no even those of males nudes! -- extremely tastefully composed and painstaking rendered. Ditto with Jeff Koons' art (which I can explicate later.)

Fear not, Che, there are many people doing work. We are not hearing from them before the time is not yet ripe.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old January 6th, 2005, 11:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonita
Art is also regarded highly by collectors becuase it isn't "productive." The common complaint about a work of art is: "My child can do that." Well, what they were trying to say is: "I can't understand it," or "What can I use this for?" To better answer these questions, high prices are put on certain art work. Now, the new complaint, or question, becomes: "What is its investment value?"

I guess human beings are always looking for methods to elevate their own status. To become the owner of something entirely useless is, in a way, an effective mode of social climbing. (You know, Heather and I have a favourite author, Thorsten Veblen who mentioned this and other items in his infamous and humourous book "The Theory of the Leisure Class.")
"La Distinction" by Bourdieu also is a very good read on that topic.

We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace!

26.000 Faces :frownani:
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old January 6th, 2005, 15:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonita
Fear not, Che, there are many people doing work. We are not hearing from them before the time is not yet ripe.
I think that high art has been replaced by POP Art.

In direct relationship to A. Warhol's pop art movement has evolved into TV, Music were the influences on society is what they get from TV & internet images, instead of the the art pieces of artisians
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old January 6th, 2005, 16:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonita
1. Where does art rest in society?

2. What, exactly are the functions of art?

3. Is it important for an artist to be a commercial success?

4. If you are an artist, do you wish to be able to earn a good living by selling your work? Is it at all possible?

5. If you are not involved in the creation of art works, do you think art should be promoted as commodity?

Your views?
1. Art serves a a quick visual shorthand to define a community or society. it also can serve, for good or for ill, as a lightning rod for the difficult and disturbing currents running underneath a society. Art shows us things first, and that sometimes worries or angers people. But it is truly what makes a society more than just a conglommeration of disparate people.
2. Art serves an important purpose as both the symbol and explaination of what that community is and what it wants other's to think it is (this can be the same or different). Art is also the unknowing of what's coming next, while at the same time serving as the what's coming next, if you get what I am saying. Also, any demogogue can get a toehold of publicity by attacking art as degenerate or perverse, and in that it can help in their rise to power (this happens all the time).
3. NO. It only matters that their works touch the viewer.
4. Not at all, but it'd be nice not to be in debt.
5. NO. Who's word would set the market price? Who's opinion? Art is not pork bellies nor stock in Microsoft.

You know the scene it's very hum-drum
And my favorite song's entitled "Boredom"...
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old January 8th, 2005, 04:38
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In short: art is the definable of the un-defined
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old February 9th, 2005, 03:42
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A bit late, but I hope that's alright...

1) I think art is important to everyone. While I do agree that there are many people for whom paintings and the like are a waste of time, we have to remember that art includes all forms of self-expression. Art can be media like television and film, music, photography, and even clothing.

2) Art is meant to convey emotion and ideas.

3) No, all that matters is that the artist is happy with the final piece. To me, art is more about the artist than the audience. ...unless the art is meant to be a commercial success, of course, and then the opposite is ture.

4) The good life is subjective. For some people, being healthy and having good friends is the good life, whereas for others a nice villa and a few Ferraris are the goal. If I were an artist trying to make earn a living through art, I think being able to cover the basic bills and having financial freedom would be important.

5) I think it already is.
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