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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 12:06 Thread Starter
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Israel

I managed to find Daniel Barenboim's Reith transcipt of one of his recent speechs.

Quote:
"if Israel wants to have a permanent place it must become part of the Middle East, and it must be aware of the culture that already existed here, and not pretend, as has been done for a long time now, that it was a desert and an uncultured one at that. For the future of Israel it is necessary for Israelis to open their ears to the Arab culture. This is not an issue of Israel denying its European roots but instead a question of enriching and enhancing its European heritage by placing it side by side with its Middle Eastern heritage. Otherwise the State of Israel will remain forever a foreign body, and as such there is no possible perspective of future for its remaining here, because a foreign body can exist in a society, or in music, or in a human being, only for a limited amount of time."
Such a statement would be impossible for a non-Jew to make in this day and age, for fear of charges of anti-semitism, and it takes a VERY brave Jew to say it let alone non jew, but Barenboim Reith does not lack any courage in saying this. In an earlier part of the transcipt I found he made reference to the musical concept of tempo rubato ("stolen time" i think), whereby variations of tempo have to be given back, having been 'stolen' from the basic beat:


Quote:
"It is the ear that must guide us in tempo rubato to have the moral strength to give back what was inadvertently stolen. In other words, when taking time in parts of a phrase, we must find the right place to give it back. This is not unlike the moral responsibility to give back what has been stolen."
I take this to be a clear reference to 'stolen lands'. The use of the word 'moral' is surely not accidental. Again, a very brave statement.

Now lets take a look at the new Israeli Prime Minister said not too long ago.

Quote:
we must ensure that there will be a proven Jewish majority in the State of Israel, otherwise the term Jewish state becomes empty of meaning. The obligation of the national leadership is to be responsible to the vision of Herzl and to ensure a Jewish majority in the State."
What the ****? Now lets substitute any country in the world with the country 'Israel'. I.E

Quote:
"we must ensure that there will be a proven British majority in the country of Great Britain, otherwise the term British becomes empty of meaning. The obligation of the national leadership is to be responsible to the vision of (Herzl) and to ensure a British majority in the State."
Wouldn't this be classed as racist?

There are people living as refugees in Gaza and the West Bank, even after the passage of over fifty years, who could take you to their former home in Israel, from which they were driven out. I simply ask: which statement, which attitude, is more likely to lead to peace and justice in the Middle East, that of Daniel Barenboim or that of the New Israeli Prime Minister? Which is the more humane? It's a shame the western world gets such a biased and fabricated view of whats actually going on over there.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 15:08
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Such bull....

The Jewish People deserve a state like all people. The Arab people have 22 countries. It's only natural for the Jewish to have 1 country too. There are thousands of Jewish refugess who fled Arab countries but were placed in new lives in Israel. This whole "refugee fiction" is simply ridicilous.



It's funny that a "British" guy will attack Israel's position.

Ever heard of Balfour ?

Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour

-------
then the mandate.

Article 2 of the Palestine Mandate stated that the administration would "secure the establishment of the Jewish national home", while "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine".

=== in both, no mention of another state deserving ...

The Arabs too have accepted this :

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...aisaltext.html
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 15:47
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Hhahahaahahahaaaaa How typical of a jew to bite the hand that helped him! hahahahaaaa

Dude, have your ****ing state wherever you want, just **** off and have it somewhere else.

Vamos Argentina!
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 17:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooh
Hhahahaahahahaaaaa How typical of a jew to bite the hand that helped him! hahahahaaaa

Dude, have your ****ing state wherever you want, just **** off and have it somewhere else.
well you're already in argentina. I suggest all the other arabs leave there too and leave the Jewish land alone. Or just go to the other 22 countries they have.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 17:50
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gba, Somalia is not an arab state(nor is Djibouti), and I doubt if Mauritania is either.

And as usual, you are highly amusing, calling the Palestinian refugee problem a work of fiction.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 18:08
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The current members of the Arab League (and the date of their admission):

* Egypt - March 22, 1945 (Founder) (suspended, 1979-1989)
* Iraq - March 22, 1945 (Founder)
* Jordan - March 22, 1945 (Founder) (entered when still using the name "Transjordan")
* Lebanon - March 22, 1945 (Founder)
* Saudi Arabia - March 22, 1945 (Founder)
* Syria - March 22, 1945 (Founder)
* Yemen - May 5, 1945 (Founder)
* Libya - March 28, 19531
* Sudan - January 19, 1956
* Morocco - October 1, 1958
* Tunisia - October 1, 1958
* Kuwait - July 20, 1961
* Algeria - August 16, 1962
* United Arab Emirates - June 12, 1971
* bahrain - September 11, 1971
* Qatar - September 11, 1971
* Oman - September 29, 1971
* Mauritania - November 26, 1973
* Somalia - February 14, 1974
* Palestine - succeeding to the position held by the Palestine Liberation Organization since September 9, 1976
* Djibouti Djibouti - April 9, 1977
* Comoros - November 20, 1993


Quote:
Originally Posted by Osman
And as usual, you are highly amusing, calling the Palestinian refugee problem a work of fiction.
oh really, and you're an expert on this, because of your Swedish knowledge on refugees. Highly amusing, or highly ignorant of you I would say.

Arab refugees part 1 :

Only a George Orwell or a Franz Kafka could have done justice to the story of the Arab refugee problem. For twenty years, the world has been indoctrinated with a vision of its origins, its scope, the responsibilities for its solution. The intent of this picture is, roughly, that in 1948 the Jewish people launched an attack on the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, drove them out, and thus established the State of Israel. The number of innocent peace-loving Arabs thus turned refugee was -- here you may insert any figure that occurs to you, such as a million, one and a half million, two million. Justice demands that the refugees be restored to their homes, and until that day, the world (everyone, that is, except the Arab people) must care for their upkeep.

The Arabs are the only declared refugees who became refugees not by the action of their enemies or because of well-grounded fear of their enemies, but by the initiative of their own leaders. For nearly a generation, those leaders have wilfully kept as many people as they possibly could in degenerating squalor, preventing their rehabilitation, and holding out to all of them the hope of return and of "vengeance" on the Jews of Israel, to whom they have transferred the blame for their plight.

The fabrication can probably most easily be seen in the simple circumstance that at the time the alleged cruel expulsion of Arabs by Zionists was in progress, it passed unnoticed. Foreign newspapermen who covered the war of 1948 on both sides did, indeed, write about the flight of the Arabs, but even those most hostile to the Jews saw nothing to suggest that it was not voluntary. In the three months during which the major part of the Right took place -- April, May, and June 1948 -- the London Times, at that time [openly] hostile to Zionism, published eleven leading articles on the situation in Palestine in addition to extensive news reports and articles. In none was there even a hint of the charge that the Zionists were driving the Arabs from their homes.

More interesting still, no Arab spokesman mentioned the subject. At the height of the flight, on April 27, Jamal Husseini, the Palestine Arabs' chief representative at the United Nations, made a long political statement, which was not lacking in hostility toward the Zionists; he did not mention refugees. Three weeks later (while the flight was still in progress), the Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, made a fiercely worded political statement on Palestine; it contained not a word about refugees.

The Arab refugees were not driven from Palestine by anyone. The vast majority left, whether of their own free will or at the orders or exhortations of their leaders, always with the same reassurance-that their departure would help in the war against Israel. Attacks by Palestinian Arabs on the Jews had began two days after the United Nations adopted its decision of November 29, 1947, to divide western Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state. The seven neighbouring Arab states-Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt -- then prepared to invade the country as soon as the birth of the infant State of Israel was announced. Their victory, was certain, they claimed, but it would be speeded and made easier if the local Arab population got out of the way. The refugees would come back in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and not only recover their own property but also inherit the houses and farms of the vanquished and annihilated Jews. Between December 1, 1947, and May 15, 1948, the clash was largely between bands of local Arabs, aided in diverse ways by the disintegrating British authority and the Jewish fighting organisations.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 18:20
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Nobody is saying Israel can not have their own state.

Just don't camp next door to the enemy, it's asking for trouble.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 22:26
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I'm open to suggestions . We'll have to fight a few Eskimos in Alaska, won't we.

btw, seriously, the ones that camped next door were the Arabs historically speaking. It's after WW 1, England and France divided territories between them and decided to reward Arab princes with Syria, Iraq, Saudi, and eventually Jordan too....
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 22:33
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Originally Posted by Del Piero
I'm open to suggestions . We'll have to fight a few Eskimos in Alaska, won't we.
Hmm, how about the Dakotas?

Iowa seems like a cracking little place, too.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2006, 22:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madridista10
Hmm, how about the Dakotas?

Iowa seems like a cracking little place, too.
So the U.S won't object to the immigration of millions and all the army stuff and everything ? we can move everything and be a country there ? It doesn't sound too bad, though it might be easier to move the Palestinians there, n'est pas ?
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