Belarus - Xtratime Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 15:07 Thread Starter
Xtratime Legend
 
Krle's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2002
Location: Rotterdam
Teams: Zvezda, Feyenoord and Serbia!
Posts: 40,555
Belarus

The situation is Belarus has been on the news these last few days because of the elections. Apparantly Lukashenko rigged them in his favour again, making him the last dictator left in Europe according to some. Today I read the European Union is considering sanctions against Belarus because of it.

Don't you guys think that Europe has ignored this situation for far too long? Even though the situations aren't exactly the same, they went to all costs to get rid of Milosevic at the time. Now is Belarus simply proof that if there are no interests involved, Europe doesn't give a damn?

And if anyone here knows more about the situation and the opposition, please feel free to share the info, I'm very interested.
Krle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 23:32
International
 
Fleka's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Teams: Red Star Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 5,287
Belarus reminds me of Republika Srpska. They would love to join Russia proper, but the Yanks just won't let them.

"Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Fleka is online now  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 23:50
Legend
Legend
 
Andrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2001
Location: Toronto
Teams: Partizan
Posts: 15,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleka
Belarus reminds me of Republika Srpska. They would love to join Russia proper, but the Yanks just won't let them.
I don't think it's that way. The Yanks probably wouldn't care that much. Lukashenko wanted a Belarus-Russia union with the 2 as equal partners but Putin basically offered him to become just another republic in the Russian federation. This would reduce Lukashenko's power a lot.

As for Drulo's question, I think it's a combination of 1) Russia has interests there and they already lost out in Ukraine so pushing them so soon on Belarus is probably judged not to be a good thing by the West 2) Belarus is not in the limelight like Serbia was for so long so if the West doesn't seem to care it doesn't look like a big deal and 3) Lukashenko's regime is far more oppressive and the opposition is much weaker than in other places (or at least that's what I've heard from Serbian democracy activists that went there - there are some over at Forum B92).
Andrix is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2006, 00:20
International
 
Fleka's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Teams: Red Star Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 5,287
If Russia got bigger, the US would care.

"Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Fleka is online now  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2006, 00:38
Xtratime Legend
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2002
Location: Lulea
Teams: Milan
Posts: 23,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleka
If Russia got bigger, the US would care.
Not really. Ukraina is another beast as that is a large and wellpopulated country, but belarus is just a little fish in the pond. If they want to join, the USA can do nothing about it and will do nothing about it.
Johan is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2006, 01:57
Xtratime Legend
 
Onree's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Teams: teh AFC lolz
Posts: 25,902
Hleb for President.
Onree is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2006, 03:29
Xtratime Legend
Xtratime Legend
 
AMOROSO!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 1999
Location: London
Teams: PAOK and Parma
Posts: 26,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrLe
Now is Belarus simply proof that if there are no interests involved, Europe doesn't give a damn?
Nooo. Why would you say that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Leonardo
Hleb for President.
Well, he's not very good as a winger so why not.

Love is the drug, and I'm a junkie.
AMOROSO! is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2006, 03:53
Xtratime Legend
 
Onree's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2004
Teams: teh AFC lolz
Posts: 25,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
Well, he's not very good as a winger so why not.
I refer you to his performances over the last few weeks - presidential quality right there. He even scored! :eekani:
Onree is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2006, 06:50
Premier Player
 
hungaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2003
Location: Fatönksziget
Teams: Ehh guess...
Posts: 1,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrLe
The situation is Belarus has been on the news these last few days because of the elections. Apparantly Lukashenko rigged them in his favour again, making him the last dictator left in Europe according to some. Today I read the European Union is considering sanctions against Belarus because of it.

Don't you guys think that Europe has ignored this situation for far too long? Even though the situations aren't exactly the same, they went to all costs to get rid of Milosevic at the time. Now is Belarus simply proof that if there are no interests involved, Europe doesn't give a damn?

And if anyone here knows more about the situation and the opposition, please feel free to share the info, I'm very interested.

The main problem with Belarus is that Luka would have won the elections without any rigging at all. Blaiming Europe is missing this sad fact. Its not that Europe is ignorring the situation but an election always rise the attention level so now its more about Belarus in the news.

The main (or most interresting) opposition in Belarus is a youth movement called Zubr. It means Bison and you see some of their flags with Bisons on from the news casts. They are actually much influenced by Otpor but their size is still small. Maybe the demonstrations will make some more people to join in but again, Luka has a strong support. I think the interresting question for debate is why.
hungaria is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old March 23rd, 2006, 14:00 Thread Starter
Xtratime Legend
 
Krle's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2002
Location: Rotterdam
Teams: Zvezda, Feyenoord and Serbia!
Posts: 40,555
Thanks for the answers, Andrija and Hungaria.

First about Russia, do they simply see Belarus as a buffer to the West and what separates the two nations? Cause out of all the former Soviet states it seems Belarus has kept the best ties with Russia. How big is the Russian minority over there and do they have any substantial influence?

So from what I gather the support for a new government isn't big enough to start something substantial. Also, it doesn't help when you see that in Ukraine the ousted party looks set to regain power in the upcoming elections this weekend.
The sanctions the European Union wants to impose IMO are a terrible method to get rid of a leader. You punish the people instead of Lukashenko himself and often it has the wrong effect. People end up hating the West because of it and turn to Lukashenko instead. They're better off supporting the opposition with money and other means.

Now onto your question Hungaria, why do you think it's that way? Is it the result of endless propaganda? Or is it fear? Since press freedom, freedom of speech, practicing religion etc seem to be very limited in Belarus. Or do people long for communist days? How is the economy holding up, is it a poor nation?

I read the EU looks set to have a meeting to discuss measures against Lukashenko's regime. I doubt anything constructive will come out of it. In fact I expect the press coverage to drop as soon as the demonstrations seize or public interest fades away.

BTW I'm not claiming Europe should invade Belarus or anything, far from it actually. I'm just debating their sense of conviction to try and make all of Europe democratic. I've always believed that to be BS of the highest degree and this is just proof of it.
Krle is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old March 23rd, 2006, 15:10
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 53,455
[QUOTE=KrLe]

Quote:
First about Russia, do they simply see Belarus as a buffer to the West and what separates the two nations? Cause out of all the former Soviet states it seems Belarus has kept the best ties with Russia. How big is the Russian minority over there and do they have any substantial influence?
sort of buffer, yes. the russians want to avoid another orange revolution in their western neighbour country. that is why they accept some strange even anti-russian decisions of lukashenko who on the other hand does so to calm down the hard-core nationalists in belarus. the etnic groups are Belarusian 81.2%, Russian 11.4%, Polish 3.9%, Ukrainian 2.4%, other 1.1%. theree was the plan for a long time that both russia and belarus would form a union, but lukashenko would never give away his power.




Quote:
Now onto your question Hungaria, why do you think it's that way? Is it the result of endless propaganda? Or is it fear? Since press freedom, freedom of speech, practicing religion etc seem to be very limited in Belarus. Or do people long for communist days? How is the economy holding up, is it a poor nation?
here we have the strange constellation that most people are in fact satisfied with the economic situation, althougn the average monthly income is about 250 $. but there is no hunger or people starving in the country, and they are afraid of what might happen if the system changes. however, lukashenko still gets cheap oil from russia, they have raffineries in belarus to refine that oil and sell it to other countries to world market conditions. that is how they always manage a certain amount of money to balance their economy, and in case give some tax presents to the population. people don't have to hold for the communist days, they are still living in communism. and, yes, it is a poor nation.
szövkap is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2006, 00:57
Legend
Legend
 
Andrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2001
Location: Toronto
Teams: Partizan
Posts: 15,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by szövkap
the etnic groups are Belarusian 81.2%, Russian 11.4%, Polish 3.9%, Ukrainian 2.4%, other 1.1%.
It's more like Russian 88.6%, Belarussian 4%, Polish 3.9%, etc.

Belarussian is almost an extinct language, from what I hear something like 96% of all schools in Belarus are in Russian and less than five daily newspapers are in Belarussian. I don't think most people in that country really make a difference between Russian and Belarussian, as an identity.
Andrix is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2006, 13:23
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 53,455
as bertolt brecht would have said it, "erst kommt das Fressen, dann die Moral"
szövkap is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome