Who knows details about the French "Under-26" law? - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 13:16 Thread Starter
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Who knows details about the French "Under-26" law?

From what I read, the government is proposing that people under the age of 26 can be fired without compensation at all. Surely, there must be something else in it?

If there isn't, this is a really unfair law.

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 17:25
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Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
From what I read, the government is proposing that people under the age of 26 can be fired without compensation at all. Surely, there must be something else in it?

If there isn't, this is a really unfair law.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 17:48
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What does "compensation" mean? The employer has to pay something out to people it fires? I don't see what that has to do with an employment law...the only reason compensation should be payed out is if 1) employee was unjustly fired (i.e. for racial, religious, sex, political reasons) and 2) the employee-employment contract stipulates compensation on abnormal contract termination.

If you suck at your job, there's no reason why you should get compensation after beeing fired.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 19:10
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form what i understood, they can now fire any person under age 26 (if employed under new kind of contract) without any explanation.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 19:20 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Andrix
What does "compensation" mean? The employer has to pay something out to people it fires?
He must pay it out to people he fires without reason. According to the French government, being under 26 is a reason.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 19:57
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I believe it encouraged employers to hire more. Im pretty uninformed on the reasoning behind this, but I assume its because employers dont want to hire because of the restrictive laws.

But Im just an ignorant American. Mali, ouvrir mes (how do you say eyes on Fronsay?)




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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 21:11
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Welcome to the real world French people. This is what it's like for every worker in the USA and always has been.
Alot of the Euro's make me wonder. They rush into the EU headfirst which is just a huge plunge into globalization but then they don't want to adapt at all to the changes and sacrifices thatmust be made.

Can't have the best of both worlds?
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 21:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
He must pay it out to people he fires without reason. According to the French government, being under 26 is a reason.
Firing without a reason is fine - it's within the rights of a private employer. Firing for the wrong reason (i.e. ethnicity) should be sanctioned, but if I employ you, and wake up one day feeling it would be hoot to fire you, it is within my rights. It's like saying I can't call up the cable company and cancel my TV service "without a reason".

Not to mention that employers 99% of the time fire people with reason, because which business would go through the hassle of firing and replacing a worker if it didn't have reason to do so?
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 22:19
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Wow..."at will" employment. What a new concept...and then they bitch about no work. Bwah! This and the "government must CREATE jobs" fantasies...

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 22:36
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De Villepin is in a reality a left-wing who has found a way to kick Sarkozy and the UMP out from the presidential election. What a brilliant man he is. What a good way to lose elections !

There is nothing worthy in this contract since your employer can fire you during 2 years without the need to give an explanation and receive financial compensation from the state. Apparently De Villepin thinks if firm can hire more easily independently of the needs of the firm, unemployement will finally decrease. Wow magic operate !

Just a way to put pressure on the flexibility of workers.

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 23:08
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4816306.stm

It's not complete, but it gives a good idea. Good thing is that this has completely swept away De Villepin's chances of winning the presidential elections. Sad thing is that this leaves the way open to Sarkozy.

Anyway if people in other parts of the world think it's ok they get exploited, so be it, but at least the French are sticking up (although I know this cultural element if fed by the rigid structure in which French policy-making happens) to this deranged neo-liberal 'logic'.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 23:12
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...are there any restrictions on French employees quitting their jobs without prior notice or a good explanation?
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2006, 23:35 Thread Starter
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Presumably, noone would quit his job without a good reason Tim. But a big company could exploit this new law and recycle employees every two years keeping its staff flexible and "fireable" at all times. Then they could have a hoot with some risque' strategy and if it doesn't work they can always cut costs by firing people - after all, it costs nothing and it can be done in a second.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 04:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
Presumably, noone would quit his job without a good reason Tim. But a big company could exploit this new law and recycle employees every two years keeping its staff flexible and "fireable" at all times. Then they could have a hoot with some risque' strategy and if it doesn't work they can always cut costs by firing people - after all, it costs nothing and it can be done in a second.
So now companies shouldn't take risks?

Huh? Yes there are companies that recycle workers every 2 years. It just means those workers are easily replacable. Next thing you'll be saying we should ban robots from assembly lines - after all, that eliminates jobs. But not all workers are easily replaceable. I don't see the big deal in all of this...

If you're someone who can be "cycled" every 2 years you're likely to be replaced by a robot or computer at some point anyway...better try and find a job where you aren't an automaton than waste time protesting about it.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 04:19 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Andrix
So now companies shouldn't take risks?
Come on, I'm obviously not saying that. However, there is a difference between risking and high risking just because a certain amount of your employees cost nothing to get rid of.

You seem to forget that those who loose jobs are people. Not numbers.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 04:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gOD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4816306.stm

It's not complete, but it gives a good idea. Good thing is that this has completely swept away De Villepin's chances of winning the presidential elections. Sad thing is that this leaves the way open to Sarkozy.

Anyway if people in other parts of the world think it's ok they get exploited, so be it, but at least the French are sticking up (although I know this cultural element if fed by the rigid structure in which French policy-making happens) to this deranged neo-liberal 'logic'.
Get exploited...hahaahahahaa

oh my lord, no wonder Europe is in the cellar

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 04:29
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And who decides that level or risk? And it can also work both ways. Imagine where a company is thinking about a risky venture which would require it to quickly increase its workforce by 10%. However the chances are 50/50. Now if the company knows that it can easily fire those 10% extra people if the venture fails they will be willing to to try it - they might succeed and those people might get long term jobs. They might fail and those newly hired people might be out of work again, but hey at least they had some work.

In the other case, company knows that if venture fails it'll be stuck with a bunch of employees it can't fire. Company decides not to go ahead. Those potential hirees never get those jobs, not even for a short time.

Besides, you said firing without a reason. "We're firing you cause business is doing badly" (for whatever reason) is a valid reason to fire someone. The government can't sit there and say "well you made bad management decisions and now you have to compensate the people you laid off". That's just ridicilious. And yes these are people who lose jobs, but think of the big picture. Fire 50% of the people so the other 50% can keep their jobs or keep all the workers until the company goes bankrupt leaving everyone without a job?

Sure there's abuse in any system. You just have to figure out whether the potential benefits outweigh the potential abuse.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 05:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrix
And who decides that level or risk? And it can also work both ways. Imagine where a company is thinking about a risky venture which would require it to quickly increase its workforce by 10%. However the chances are 50/50. Now if the company knows that it can easily fire those 10% extra people if the venture fails they will be willing to to try it - they might succeed and those people might get long term jobs. They might fail and those newly hired people might be out of work again, but hey at least they had some work.

In the other case, company knows that if venture fails it'll be stuck with a bunch of employees it can't fire. Company decides not to go ahead. Those potential hirees never get those jobs, not even for a short time.

Besides, you said firing without a reason. "We're firing you cause business is doing badly" (for whatever reason) is a valid reason to fire someone. The government can't sit there and say "well you made bad management decisions and now you have to compensate the people you laid off". That's just ridicilious. And yes these are people who lose jobs, but think of the big picture. Fire 50% of the people so the other 50% can keep their jobs or keep all the workers until the company goes bankrupt leaving everyone without a job?

Sure there's abuse in any system. You just have to figure out whether the potential benefits outweigh the potential abuse.
good post; have to agree with you. and according to the new law, a company can fire only those people with below 2 years of experience in the company without showing any reason.


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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 06:11
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The reason I asked whether French employees are currently restricted from quitting their jobs without prior notice and without good reasons is because I wanted to learn a bit more about the balance between the rights of employees and those of employers. Any time the balance favors one party over the other, regardless of which side it favors, it is an invitation for problems.

If employees can up and quit their jobs whenever they feel like it, I don't see any reasons for why employers should be restricted from firing them without prior notice, reason, or compensation. Employers are basically purchasing a service from the employees, a service they can choose to cancel at any time, and a service employees can cease providing at any time.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2006, 06:45
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You don't have to give an explanation officially. But you have to notify your employer that you are leaving 2 or 3 months before, depends of the work. Of course you don't receive any kind of financial compensation in that case.
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