Is it okay to be open with certain views which are considered racial and prejudice? - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 19:52 Thread Starter
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Is it okay to be open with certain views which are considered racial and prejudice?

I was just on the XT announcements forum (yes, thats right) and there were people tossing their 2 cents which i felt were rather out of place and not to mention off-topic. I will not mention who, but that certain person stated something like islam is a stupid religion. Now, i know its alright to have your personal beliefs and views, but to express certain opinions are wrong. If i can get away with saying somethin like islam is a silly religion when i know it will offend other people here, i should learn to shut the fuk up! Its like suppose i state something like black people are stupid... or i say something like i dont like jews. im only giving an example, but it could be my view and i could stand by it. But i should be smarter than saying it on a public forum. unfortunately there are a lot of racist people out there and we cannot help it, but as long as they dont violate my personal space or opinions i cud give a rats ass about them. But making certain controversial statements i feel are out of place and people who talk like that should be asked to take their garbage to some site where people like them congregate.

EDIT: I'm not a muslim and consider myself to be non-religious. i still feel such things are wrong

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post #2 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:10
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OK, I'm bored so I'm going to bite.

How about I state that this has to be one of the many stupid posts I've read here, not necessarily the stupidest, but not a mediocre effort either.

How is calling Islam a stupid religion, racial when you have in Iraq the Shiites and the Sunnis blowing up each other's mosques and killing each other? Are they being racial or just stupid?

....There was also a conspiracy against Sporting to keep them out of 1st place by 26 points. The conspiracy is about to be revealed in a public judicial forum soon enough. It's hasn't anything to do with Golden whistles, but with Golden Showers, as Sporting Administration and coaching has conspired to piss all over themselves this season.
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post #3 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:11
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Originally Posted by The Real Deal
but as long as they dont violate my personal space or opinions i cud give a rats ass about them.
How is someone saying his opinion about something (no matter how extreme or dumb) violating your personal space?

You can certainly disagree with him, and even confront him (this is why this is a discussion board), but saying that he shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion is violating HIS personal space.

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post #4 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:13
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Originally Posted by RedEagle
OK, I'm bored so I'm going to bite.

How about I state that this has to be one of the many stupid posts I've read here, not necessarily the stupidest, but not a mediocre effort either.

How is calling Islam a stupid religion, racial when you have in Iraq the Shiites and the Sunnis blowing up each other's mosques and killing each other? Are they being racial or just stupid?
You barked instead. And missed the whole point the guy was trying to make...

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post #5 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
How is someone saying his opinion about something (no matter how extreme or dumb) violating your personal space?

You can certainly disagree with him, and even confront him (this is why this is a discussion board), but saying that he shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion is violating HIS personal space.
Well, here are two opinions. Both are not necessarily true and are made only for the sake of argument.

1. In Dr. Malcolm's opinion, AMOROSO! sucks on donkey's genitals.

2. In Dr. Malcolm's opinion, Christianity is a religion for imbeciles.

Both are opinions. Both come under free speech. But one will be censored, the other will not.




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post #6 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:21
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Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
You barked instead. And missed the whole point the guy was trying to make...

As usual my post went completely over your head. Here's a tip. Write it 100 times and read it 300 times back to yourself.

Maybe then, it'll sink with what was said.

....There was also a conspiracy against Sporting to keep them out of 1st place by 26 points. The conspiracy is about to be revealed in a public judicial forum soon enough. It's hasn't anything to do with Golden whistles, but with Golden Showers, as Sporting Administration and coaching has conspired to piss all over themselves this season.
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post #7 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:44
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Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
Well, here are two opinions. Both are not necessarily true and are made only for the sake of argument.

1. In Dr. Malcolm's opinion, AMOROSO! sucks on donkey's genitals.

2. In Dr. Malcolm's opinion, Christianity is a religion for imbeciles.

Both are opinions. Both come under free speech. But one will be censored, the other will not.
The difference is that the first one is a personal insult. Personal insults obviously violate someone's "personal space", to use the terminology used in the thread. He talked about "racial and prejudiced" views.

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post #8 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 20:56
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With regards to a religion being qualified as 'stupid'; that doesn't imply that the followers of that religion are stupid as well. Religion, in that sense, is an abstract concept. It would be like saying that smoking is stupid. That doesn't mean that people who smoke are stupid people. Merely that one perceives the activity of smoking as stupid.

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post #9 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 21:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
Well, here are two opinions. Both are not necessarily true and are made only for the sake of argument.

1. In Dr. Malcolm's opinion, AMOROSO! sucks on donkey's genitals.

2. In Dr. Malcolm's opinion, Christianity is a religion for imbeciles.

Both are opinions. Both come under free speech. But one will be censored, the other will not.
In the real world #1 would get you a kick in the teeth from Amo.

#2 would get a yawn, as it is merely a poor imitation of Karl Marx.

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post #10 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 21:49
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The real deal: In the main I absolutely agree with your stance. Absolutely, and that explains my disdain for the editorial brass at Jyllands-Posten and their drawings scam.

Some times we will however get into situations where we discuss situations where religion is an unmistakable part of concrete problems. People can have a theological dispute over how much of any such problem can be traced back to whatever religious text, but in the end the application and religious justification means that you cannot avoid talking about it being a problem of the religion. Not exclusively; it's cultural, political etc too. But it is also religious, and to me it is very much unsurprising that a book that is more than 1000 years old, from a time with incomparable moral, social and whatever standards, virtually no scientific knowledge compared to to today etc leaves many openings for vile interpretation.

As such - I would never say that islam is a stupid religion other than in the Marx like sense Humbird hinted to. That it is escapism and deeply irrational, but obviously that would be my view as I'm not religious. I fully respect others right to disagree.
Islam I'm sure at it's base is humanitarian and full of good intentions - despite whatever cultural things from long time ago I entirely disagree with. Same goes for the bible and all other religious schools not to mention most all life world philosophy ever written.

I personally do find it stupid however, when people take anything arcane like that and make it indisputable, finite gospel, despite all the evidence of even the most 'respected' contemporary interpretators flip flopping on the interpretations to meet their political agenda. The Qua'ran like the bible is a mix of poetic texts catering to the mystic element of any religious base and concrete commandments on the other hand. Miracles and out of this world happpenings can be read at any and all time as allegory, but the very concrete advice and rules as to how one must live ones life often seems stuck in time, and obviously that will be so.
It seems unreasonably daft for me to not make the intellectual leap, that everything that will, from necessity, be interpreted differently by people at different points in time, quite naturally cannot contain some finite truth or validity.

Regardless of the religion again, but obviously more pregnantly so in the case of islam exactly because the teachings are supposed to be Gods final say on what should constitute good, acceptable human behaviour. Thus I often shake my head in disbelief when having the discussions about islam, and yes, the notion of stupidity plays a part here as well, as people are breaking their backs to not consider one tiny part of the Qu'ran to be up for re-invention, as that by default endangers the entire concept as the book is no longer infallible.

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post #11 of 201 (permalink) Old March 6th, 2006, 22:04
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Though it may be prejudiced, it isn't racist to say a religion is stupid.

As for statements pissing people off...well if you're going let that consideration determine anything, you may as well never utter a sound.
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post #12 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:03
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The real question here is: Are Muslims more sensitive about Islam than most are about their other respective religions?

While there's no doubt that each religion has their fair share of humorless stiffs, I don't think it possible to deny that this element is noticeably more frequent with Muslims.

As an atheist, I don't have to fear the fury of some figment of the human imagination. Not being bound by silly blasphemous taboo, religion is just like any other topic to me and fair game.

In my many years here, I'm sure I've attacked all religions most sacred. Be it calling Jesus a drunk (see locked photo), goose-stepping to the copy machine (See locked photo) or calling Muslim ancient scripture a ball of yarn (yeah, ball of yarn... oooh my, that one really is insulting, ain't it?).

Since 2001, I've received no less 10 personal threats of death to my own person and that of my family, and countless others of just silly insults and promises of eternal damnation, etc. by anonymous individuals proclaiming to be Muslims. Admittedly, I have no idea if indeed these were Muslims sending me the hate mail (for the record, I don't believe it's anyone I've interacted with here).

However, the ball of yarn comment got me barred for a month. Poor Admns knew there was no real reason to bar anyone for such a silly comment, but the whining finally wore them down. I almost volunteered to bar myself just to spare the Admns, but I digress…

On the other hand, no Jew or Christian has asked that I be banned or barred for my blatant blasphemy of their most sacred hood, never mind death threats.

Conclusion: Jews and Christians have learned to live and dismiss without insult or threat the self-condemning blasphemy of infidels. After all, if I'm wrong, it'll be me frying with the chicken nuggets, not them. And when they do feel insulted, seldom do they react in such anger that prompts violence and melee. In other words, they've grown up. In fact, most have learned to laugh it off, those-crazy-unbelievers-are-nuts type of dismissed laugh. It's time Muslims do the same. That is; grow up.

Yeah, I think religion is repressive, antihuman, antinature, a social retardant, humorless, vicious, joyless, intellectual servilely and yes, stupid. So sue me.

That is all.

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post #13 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
How is someone saying his opinion about something (no matter how extreme or dumb) violating your personal space?

You can certainly disagree with him, and even confront him (this is why this is a discussion board), but saying that he shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion is violating HIS personal space.
It is a violation of personal space. He can have his own personal opinions about any thing on earth. but he should not express it publically.
Let me give u an example. (this is just an example to prove my point - no offense meant)
I say in my opinion his mom is a dirty bitch. It sure will hurt him, though i am only expressing my opinion and i am entitled to my opinion. Though it is just my personal opinion, since it hurts someone i shouldnt express it publically. at the max i can discuss it with someone who thinks like me on the same subject.


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post #14 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
The difference is that the first one is a personal insult. Personal insults obviously violate someone's "personal space", to use the terminology used in the thread. He talked about "racial and prejudiced" views.
There are people in this world, who takes religion over self. So for them, an insult on their religion will hurt more than a personal insult.


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post #15 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:14
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Originally Posted by Boyo
With regards to a religion being qualified as 'stupid'; that doesn't imply that the followers of that religion are stupid as well. Religion, in that sense, is an abstract concept. It would be like saying that smoking is stupid. That doesn't mean that people who smoke are stupid people. Merely that one perceives the activity of smoking as stupid.
first of all, smoking is not stupid. smoking is dangerous. and please dont compare smoking with religion. I dont understand, why you people should defend someone who calls a particular religion stupid, when it certainly hurts a lot of people and gains nothing in particular.


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post #16 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:25
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Originally Posted by blitzkreig
It is a violation of personal space. He can have his own personal opinions about any thing on earth. but he should not express it publically.
Let me give u an example. (this is just an example to prove my point - no offense meant)
I say in my opinion his mom is a dirty bitch. It sure will hurt him, though i am only expressing my opinion and i am entitled to my opinion. Though it is just my personal opinion, since it hurts someone i shouldnt express it publically. at the max i can discuss it with someone who thinks like me on the same subject.
I'm afraid this whole concept of freedom still escapes you.

Having opinions but being unable to express them publicly is suppression of an inalienable right. That’s fascism. Albeit, the world seems to be heading in that direction… but again, I digress…

It's become obvious that Muslims lack serious conviction in their beliefs to be so easily offended by the opinion of the infidel that they'd suggest slavery over freedom. Now that I think about it, I'm not surprised that even Muslims, deep, under all that clout of unconditional servitude see the glaring flaws of their perfect book. It's no wonder they always react with such exaggerated fury as if trying to conceal or smother their own doubts and insecurities. It makes perfect sense.

By the way, you are free to call my mom a dirty ****, or whatever your tiny wit is able to conjure. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but the witless will never hurt me.

That is all.

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post #17 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:27
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Originally Posted by blitzkreig
first of all, smoking is not stupid. smoking is dangerous.
I'll contest that religion is seriously more dangerous than cigarettes.

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post #18 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:48
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I'll contest that religion is seriously more dangerous than cigarettes.
that is absolutely true.


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post #19 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 04:54
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Well, then - that kind of throws a wrench into your argument some, don't it?

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post #20 of 201 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2006, 05:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pila
I'm afraid this whole concept of freedom still escapes you.

Having opinions but being unable to express them publicly is suppression of an inalienable right. That’s fascism. Albeit, the world seems to be heading in that direction… but again, I digress…
how so ?. When one knows that his opinions might incite people, when made publically, one shouldnt carry out remarks publically. It is common sense, and being mature than fascism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pila
It's become obvious that Muslims lack serious conviction in their beliefs to be so easily offended by the opinion of the infidel that they'd suggest slavery over freedom. Now that I think about it, I'm not surprised that even Muslims, deep, under all that clout of unconditional servitude see the glaring flaws of their perfect book. It's no wonder they always react with such exaggerated fury as if trying to conceal or smother their own doubts and insecurities. It makes perfect sense.
No book is complete about the world. You have to differentiate between science and religion. for example according to hinduism earth is held straight by a naga (a snake). do u expect people to believe that ?. Every religion has its own flaws.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pila
By the way, you are free to call my mom a dirty ****, or whatever your tiny wit is able to conjure. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but the witless will never hurt me.

That is all.
well, not everyone is mentaly as strong as you.


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