"Heart of Serbia" - Xtratime Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 09:11 Thread Starter
Premier Player
 
Join Date: 05 2004
Location: Dardania
Teams: Albania
Posts: 1,833
"Heart of Serbia"

Posted a new topic the "heart of Serbia":

One question to the serbs in this forum:

You know that you migrated to the place where serbia is now.
How can you claim that Kosova is the heart of Serbia?
When your ethnic origins trace back to
Tajikistan/Pakistan/India/Iran/Afghanistan/.



Serbs are not sllav they are mix iraniano-pakistan people

It is proved by serbs historian and evropian!

Last edited by G-landKD; February 14th, 2006 at 09:24.
G-landKD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 09:28 Thread Starter
Premier Player
 
Join Date: 05 2004
Location: Dardania
Teams: Albania
Posts: 1,833
the map comes from a wikipedia article based on serb literature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Serbs

Aleksandar M. Petrović, Kratka arheografija Srba, Novi Sad, 1994.
Živko D. Petković, Prve pojave srpskog imena, Beograd, 1996.
Lazar Šebek, Stari Srbi, Serbi sveske 2, Izdavač: Krim, Beograd, Ložionička 4.
Lazo M. Kostić, O srpskom imenu, Srbinje - Novi Sad, 2000.
Sava S. Vujić - Bogdan M. Basarić, Severni Srbi (ne)zaboravljeni narod, Beograd, 1998.
Nikola Jeremić, Srpska zemlja Bojka, Zemun, 1993.
Relja Novaković, Baltički Sloveni u Beogradu i Srbiji, Beograd, 1985.
Relja Novaković, Još o poreklu Srba, Beograd, 1992.
Relja Novaković, Srbi, Beograd, 1993.
Relja Novaković, Srbi i njihovi pradavni srodnici, Beograd, 2000.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iranian theory of the origin of the name 'Serb'


"Serbi" located near the mouth of the Volga, based on Greek literary sources, in a map printed in London, ca 1770
Enlarge
"Serbi" located near the mouth of the Volga, based on Greek literary sources, in a map printed in London, ca 1770

The original Serboi were probably Sarmatian (Iranian) tribe, who lived in Eastern Europe (Sarmatia Asiatica), to the north of the Caucasus. The earliest historical records about these Sarmatian Serbs dates from the 1st century, in the works of the historian Tacitus (ca. 50 AD) and geographer Pliny (Plinius) (69-75 AD).

In the fourth century, these Sarmatian Serbs, together with Huns and Alans, moved to Central Europe, and were found dwelling near the Elbe, in a region designated as White Serbia, in what is now Sachsen (eastern Germany) and western Poland. The Sarmatian Serbs, it is argued, intermarried with the indigenous Slavs of the region, adopted their language, and transferred their name to the Slavs. Since the white colour was designation for the west, name 'White Serbia' actually could mean 'Western Serbia'.

Byzantine sources report that part of the Serbs (already a Slavic people by that time) then migrated southward in the seventh century and eventually settled in the lands that now make up southern Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Herzegovina. In this region, Serbs mixed with other Slavic tribes (which settled there in the sixth century) and with descendants of indigenous peoples of the Balkans.

Rival chiefs, or župani, vied for control of the Serbs for five centuries after the migration. Župan Vlastimir formed a Serbian principality under the Byzantines around 850, and the Serbs soon converted to Christianity. The Serbs had two political centers in the eleventh century: Zeta, in the mountains of present-day Montenegro, and Raška, located in modern southwestern Serbia.

Another part of the Serbs did not migrated southwards, but remained in the Elbe region. Descendants of these Serbs are the present day Lusatian Serbs/Sorbs, who still live in the Lusatia (Lužica, Lausitz) region of eastern Germany.

It is possible that the proto-Serbs in Sarmatia were similar to other Sarmatian/Iranian peoples on the northern Caucasus, such as the Alans, and spoke an Indo-European Iranian language similar to present-day Ossetian. At some point in the history of the Serbs, this Old Serb language stood side by side with the Slavic language in White Serbia (mentioned by the Byzantine emperor, Constantine Porphyrogenitus), and likely even in the first 300 years leading up to the formation of the Serb state in the Balkans in the 9th century. Even to this day, the Serbian language has at least a third as many words in its vocabulary than other Slavic languages. This is because of the influence of Old Serb and Illyrian as well as Turkish on the Slavic language spoken by the Serbs today.
One of the possible routes of the migration of Serbs
Enlarge
One of the possible routes of the migration of Serbs

What was the origin of the Sarmatian Serbs? Since the modern Ossetian language derived from ancient Sarmatian, we can search for the origin of Sarmatians if we compare relationships between languages of Iranian stock. The Ossetian language is a member of Eastern Iranian branch of Iranian languages, along with Pashtun, Yaghnobi and languages of the Pamir. The original homeland of the Sarmatians was probably in the region where these eastern Iranian languages are spoken today, somewhere between Afghanistan, Tajikistan and Pakistan.

The Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitos, in his Book Of Ceremonies66, calls the Croats and Serbs "Krevatas and Sarban", who were located between Alania and Tsanaria. The information that Serbs were mentioned under the name Sarban is important because there is a Pashtun tribal group in Afghanistan named Sarbans, and that could mean that these Pashtun Sarbans are ancestors or relatives of Sarmatian Serbs. There is an old Pashtun legend which say that father Pathan (Pashtun) had 4 sons: Sarban (Serb), Batan, Ghurghusht and Karan (Croat?). This legend could suggest that Sarmatian Serbs and Croats were actually descendants of Pashtun tribes.


Traces and possible migrations of Serbs

Serb lands in the 9th century, mostly according to De Administrando Imperio
Enlarge
Serb lands in the 9th century, mostly according to De Administrando Imperio

The Serbs were mentioned by Plinius the Younger in the first century AD (69-75) as living on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov as Serboi in his Geographica. In the 2nd century, Herodotus writes in his Persian Wars that Serbs (Serboi, Sirboi - Serboi, Sirboi) live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea. In the fourth century the Carpathians are mentioned as Montes Serrorum (Serb mountains?) by the Roman emperor Licinius.

In the Caucasus, the homeland of the Sarmatian Serbs, they left their traces around the river Volga (Araxes in Greek). In modern Georgian, that river is called "Rashki". This name was used by Balkan Serbs as a name for their first state and is found wherever the name Serb is found in clusters indicating settlements. It is often used to designate hydronyms and likely meant 'river' or 'water' in Old Serb.

The Serbs possible migrated in two directions from the Caucasus, northwest and northeast. Those who went northwest became overlords to the Slavs. There they established a mighty empire and became slavicized. Konstantine Porfirogenitus called this "White Serbia". Their descendants are known as Lusatian Serbs today and despite immense Germanization, there are still a few thousand left. These we can also call 'White Serbs'.

There is theory that the other branch of Sarmatian Serbs maybe moved northeast to the southern base of the Urals, settled there for a period of time. We can call them 'Volga Serbs'. They possible moved to the east and went deep into Siberia and left its traces in the names of cities and towns along the coast of the Sea of Japan. They faded out with onslaught from the Mongols. These we can call 'Siberian Serbs'. It seems likely that Siberia was named after this Old Serb tribe.

White Serbs were probably completely Slavicized by the 6th century. The descendants of these Slavicized White Serbs are today's Lusatian Sorbs. One branch of these White Serbs have left White Serbia, and according to Porfirogenitus, came to the Balkans (7th century), invited by Heracleus, defeated the Avars and were given Macedonia to inhabit. There they took the already settled Slavs (who began arriving in the 5th and 6th centuries) under their control and mixed with them to form modern Serb nation.

These Slavs who came before the Serbs had already assimilated the Illyrians, who were an Indo-European people. Many historians agree that the old Serbs were no Slavs, but a non-Slavic caste ruling over Slavs, though Serbs, which entered Balkans in the 7th century, were mainly Slavs, which adopted Serbian name.


Toponyms related to the Serb name and connections between toponyms and possible migrations

In Caucasus region, we find some of the toponyms related to the Serb name in Georgia (Serbaisi, Serebryannoye or Serebryanyy, Serebryanoye), and Azerbaijan (Serebovski or Serebrovskiy, Seri-abad, Ser-Abad).

There are also many toponyms related to the Serb name found in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Germany, which can maybe show possible ways of the migration of Serbs from the Caucasus to Central Europe and to their present location in the Balkans.

The location of these toponyms could suggest that Serbs moved from the Caucasus into two directions: northwest and northeast. It is suggested that northwestern group latter reached Carpathians, Central Europe and Balkans, while the southeastern group reached Ural mountains, Kama river, Siberia (according to some named after Serbs), and the coast of the Sea of Japan, where are two towns named 'Serbia' and two other towns named after the Serb toponym 'Rashka'.

The Serbs toponyms are the most densely concentrated in the territory of modern Czech Republic, Western Ukraine, and southern Poland as well as Eastern Germany.


ECT ECT.

Last edited by G-landKD; February 14th, 2006 at 09:35.
G-landKD is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 09:38
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 53,420
every single european ethnics' origins trace back to somewhere in asia, with the mere exception of the basques maybe. every single indo-european language (which is all european languages except basque, finnish, estonian, hungarian, saami, turkish) has its origins in ancient indian and persian or these one's predecessors respectively. so what's the point here? send every european ethnic (whoever decides where one belongs to, mengele maybe) back to where they came from maybe some 3,000 years ago?

or what are you trying to show with this thread?

Last edited by sanyi; February 14th, 2006 at 09:51.
szövkap is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 09:42
World Class Player
 
MacoBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2004
Teams: Inter Milan, Macedonia NT
Posts: 8,892
Ffs.
MacoBoy is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 09:51
Premier Player
 
Blitzkreig's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2004
Location: The Republic Of Mancunia.
Teams: Manchester United
Posts: 1,940
Blog Entries: 1
humanity originated in Africa.


All the drugs in this world won't save you from yourself.
Blitzkreig is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 10:46
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 53,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkreig
humanity originated in Africa.
now this is also true.
szövkap is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 10:48
Community Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
red star forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2000
Location: Melbourne
Teams: Red Star , Srbija
Posts: 27,245
Sanyi put it well. The one who started this thread obviously feels the need to work on his insecurity regarding the issue.

The truth about Sinisa Mihajlovic and his destruction of the Serbian NT

Crvena zvezda - The Greatest EE Club of all time

Nerazzurri4life: Those Red Star fans are truly astonishing.
Demandred: First, I just have to say the Red Star fans were absolutely amazing, incredible atmosphere
red star forever is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 12:55
Deo
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Deo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2005
Location: Too far from Anfield...
Teams: Liverpool Football Club
Posts: 23,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by red star forever
Sanyi put it well. The one who started this thread obviously feels the need to work on his insecurity regarding the issue.
Well if you belive Sanyi (I do too) than why do you call kosovo heart of serbia than? What makes it yours?
Deo is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 15:58
Rising Star
 
Rijeka Moraca's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2005
Posts: 275
people already know that. see how much u love serbia .
coming from caucasian amd
with a iranian name "serbs" mixed with slavs and moved to balkan. in balkan kosovo is their heart. albanians are gipsy people comn from italy. nothing to do with illyrians.

Fudbalski klub Pod Goricom
Rijeka Moraca is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 16:17 Thread Starter
Premier Player
 
Join Date: 05 2004
Location: Dardania
Teams: Albania
Posts: 1,833
Moraca dont Cry , fact is that your serbs are very simaliraty to Gibsy .hahahha and dont forget your heart is not Russia but is Iran-Afganistan for mix to Gipsy DUDE
G-landKD is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 16:22
Rising Star
 
Rijeka Moraca's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2005
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-landKD
Moraca dont Cry , fact is that your serbs are very simaliraty to Gibsy .hahahha and dont forget your heart is not Russia but is Iran-Afganistan for mix to Gipsy DUDE
is iran gipsy? hope a iranian or a serbian choke u to death stinky albanian shit.

ALL ORTODOX PEOPLE UNIT AND CLEAR ALL SHIT FROM THE HOLY BALKAN!

Fudbalski klub Pod Goricom
Rijeka Moraca is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 16:28
Deo
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Deo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2005
Location: Too far from Anfield...
Teams: Liverpool Football Club
Posts: 23,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rijeka Moraca
people already know that. see how much u love serbia .
coming from caucasian amd
with a iranian name "serbs" mixed with slavs and moved to balkan. in balkan kosovo is their heart. albanians are gipsy people comn from italy. nothing to do with illyrians.
I alredy proved you that we are illyrian origin


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rijeka Moraca
ALL ORTODOX PEOPLE UNIT AND CLEAR ALL SHIT FROM THE HOLY BALKAN!
Try it
Deo is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 16:34
International
 
panicos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2003
Location: London
Teams: Arsenal
Posts: 5,837
Here we go again... Where are the others to throw around mindless insults? Still at school.
panicos is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old February 14th, 2006, 16:38
Deo
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Deo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2005
Location: Too far from Anfield...
Teams: Liverpool Football Club
Posts: 23,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by panicos
Here we go again... Where are the others to throw around mindless insults? Still at school.
You mean Arsenal?
Deo is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome