Iran's military - Xtratime Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2006, 20:17 Thread Starter
BANNED!
Legend
 
Join Date: 06 2004
Teams: Argentina, Russia, Greece, Israel, Czech Republic
Posts: 12,611
Iran's military

...

Last edited by Purger; October 22nd, 2009 at 15:11.
Purger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2006, 20:36
Legend
 
Manijak's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2002
Location: Ottawa
Teams: BIH, Zeljo & OL
Posts: 10,914
Those statistics are pretty much impossible to find. (or if you do, they are usually inaccurate)
Manijak is offline  
post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2006, 20:39
Keyboard Hero
World Class Player
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Posts: 8,361
What difference does it make.

People keep carping about the West, this and that.

They won't do anything. If Iran goes nuclear Turkey will be parading through Tehran in 4 weeks.

Cheersch

Reprezentaciju ste ukrali, istinu ne možete

"Football is an extension of the war by other means"

Franjo Tudman

PS. Iako si najavio ne moraš dolaziti u Hercegovinu, ovamo nisi dobodošao. Sasvim sigurno su ti otvorena vrata onih koji su skupa sa tobom radili na zabrani utakmice, i otvorena su ti vrata njihovog grada gdje se pale i brane hrvatske zastave.
Ljubuski is offline  
 
post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2006, 23:06
Star Player
 
Rafo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2001
Location: CA, USA
Teams: Bayern München
Posts: 4,552
Iran has bought lots of weapons from Russia in the past years and from other sources secretly. And managed to produce some on its own. But the power doesn't lie only in the weaponry but also in the large young population who are serving military. Don't forget Iran had world's 5th strongest army and weaponry before the revolution.

For some information you can go to http://iranmilitaryguide.itgo.com/


Here's an interesting article.

What if the United States drops assorted non-nuclear weapons on Iran before the bourse opens? The potential targets are many; the underground facilities will be hard to destroy. But what if all of them are taken out?

Iran instantly wins the legitimacy sweepstakes. Dr. Ahmadinejad becomes the first universally respected Shi'ite political leader in the Sunni- and Wahhabi-dominated Middle East. All across the Middle East, restive Muslims in the streets will start murmuring: "Where is our leader? Why doesn't he stand up to the United States?" The answer is obvious: because he has long been bought off by the United States. Because, in the immortal words of Lyndon Johnson, the United States has his pecker in its pocket.

There will soon be a lot of newly exposed members at risk. An unprovoked American attack on Iran will instantly and permanently de-legitimize every American client state in the Middle East. If the United States bombs Iran, the Bush Administration might as well send that "Mission Accomplished" banner to Al Qaeda headquarters.

President Bush can issue warnings. The Administration can talk tough. But what is the point? The President of Iran can call the President of the United States's bluff, if it is a bluff. He is doing this, day by day. He is not going to cooperate with the United Nations. There is no need to. If it is not a bluff, and the bombs fall, the United States' client regimes in the Middle East are as good as gone. We will then be driven out of Iraq. This message will be fully understood by every Muslim in the street. The Great Satan can be whipped. No better reason exists to start looking for a local client to whip.

Iran cannot be occupied by U.S. troops. As retired four-star general and NBC commentator Barry McCaffrey said in mid-2005, the wheels are already close to coming off the Army's machine in Iraq. So, the enforcement of any anti-nuclear technology development program is a bluff.

Iran's program can be delayed a few years by bombing, but only at the price of solidifying Dr. Ahmadinejad's rule in Iran and making him a regional symbol of Islamic defiance. In this non-elected office, he will replace Osama bin Laden. The difference is, Ahmadinejad is a legitimately elected President of a nation with a lot of oil.

This is about oil, political power, currencies, and above all, legitimacy. It is about the ability of the United States to change regimes its way and then preserve these new regimes from replacement by domestic enemies. The United States and its client state regimes will be replaced in the Middle East. It is only a matter of time. If the United States bombs Iran, the timetable will speed up.
Rafo is offline  
post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2006, 23:41
World Class Player
World Class Player
 
Bastin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, the UK
Teams: Arsenal, Watford, UK NTs, and dozens more.
Posts: 7,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo
Iran has bought lots of weapons from Russia in the past years and from other sources secretly. And managed to produce some on its own. But the power doesn't lie only in the weaponry but also in the large young population who are serving military. Don't forget Iran had world's 5th strongest army and weaponry before the revolution.
Iran never had the world's fifth strongest army, or anything near as prestigious. One of the largest, perhaps, but never strongest. Excluding N/B/C weapons, Iran's military is probably no more capable than Iraq's was, except in size.

The revolutionary armed forces overall have about a third of a million professional servicemen, and another quarter of a million conscripts. Both professionals and conscripts serve disproportionately in the infantry. Due to the low level of average training, poor integration, and the inferiority of officer training, it's hard to see Iranian infantry serving particularly well.

Iranian armour is similar to that in the Iraqi army in 2003. Their MBT is based predominantly on the T-72, which was developed by the Soviet Union over 30 years ago. It's highly unlikely that the T-72 could penetrate the first-generation Chobham armour (as used on the M1 and the Challenger 1), never mind have a chance of breaking through second-generation (used by Challenger 2).

All of their fighter jet configurations are based on the American F-5 Freedom Fighter: either the 200-or-so supplied to it before the Revolution or those built domestically since then along the same technical lines. Clearly, any air force that relies entirely on aircraft that are forty years out of date will fare very badly against any modern fighter.

The Iranian navy is very small. Their submarine fleet consists of a few early 1990s Kilo-class Russian SSKs. They have no appreciable surface fleet, although they have a handful of assorted surplus ships from the early NATO fleets, particularly the Royal Navy.

In short, there would be no military contest between Iran and any Western country. If any attack on Iran is launched in 2008 or later, one would assume that there would be enough forces to knock out their military capabilities, lines of communication, and nuclear weapons programme in a straight-forward Blitzkrieg, even if occupation isn't an option. Of course, politically, that would be a nightmare. That's why this time has to be used to secure the backing of other Muslim countries and the US and UK's NATO allies, to minimise that fall-out.

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacìni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
Bastin is offline  
post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 00:12
Premier Player
 
Vinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: Buffalo, New York USA
Teams: Italia, Juventus
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo
Iran has bought lots of weapons from Russia in the past years and from other sources secretly. And managed to produce some on its own. But the power doesn't lie only in the weaponry but also in the large young population who are serving military. Don't forget Iran had world's 5th strongest army and weaponry before the revolution.

For some information you can go to http://iranmilitaryguide.itgo.com/


Here's an interesting article.

What if the United States drops assorted non-nuclear weapons on Iran before the bourse opens? The potential targets are many; the underground facilities will be hard to destroy. But what if all of them are taken out?

Iran instantly wins the legitimacy sweepstakes. Dr. Ahmadinejad becomes the first universally respected Shi'ite political leader in the Sunni- and Wahhabi-dominated Middle East. All across the Middle East, restive Muslims in the streets will start murmuring: "Where is our leader? Why doesn't he stand up to the United States?" The answer is obvious: because he has long been bought off by the United States. Because, in the immortal words of Lyndon Johnson, the United States has his pecker in its pocket.

There will soon be a lot of newly exposed members at risk. An unprovoked American attack on Iran will instantly and permanently de-legitimize every American client state in the Middle East. If the United States bombs Iran, the Bush Administration might as well send that "Mission Accomplished" banner to Al Qaeda headquarters.

President Bush can issue warnings. The Administration can talk tough. But what is the point? The President of Iran can call the President of the United States's bluff, if it is a bluff. He is doing this, day by day. He is not going to cooperate with the United Nations. There is no need to. If it is not a bluff, and the bombs fall, the United States' client regimes in the Middle East are as good as gone. We will then be driven out of Iraq. This message will be fully understood by every Muslim in the street. The Great Satan can be whipped. No better reason exists to start looking for a local client to whip.

Iran cannot be occupied by U.S. troops. As retired four-star general and NBC commentator Barry McCaffrey said in mid-2005, the wheels are already close to coming off the Army's machine in Iraq. So, the enforcement of any anti-nuclear technology development program is a bluff.

Iran's program can be delayed a few years by bombing, but only at the price of solidifying Dr. Ahmadinejad's rule in Iran and making him a regional symbol of Islamic defiance. In this non-elected office, he will replace Osama bin Laden. The difference is, Ahmadinejad is a legitimately elected President of a nation with a lot of oil.

This is about oil, political power, currencies, and above all, legitimacy. It is about the ability of the United States to change regimes its way and then preserve these new regimes from replacement by domestic enemies. The United States and its client state regimes will be replaced in the Middle East. It is only a matter of time. If the United States bombs Iran, the timetable will speed up.

No...

its about a fanatical madman trying to get a nuclear weapon, so he can use it on Israel, Europe, the USA, or anyone else he damn well pleases...

he needs to be, and will be stopped, if not by the USA, then another concerned country (believe me there are MANY !!)

FORZA ITALIA !!!!
Vinman is offline  
post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 00:18
Xtratime Legend
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2002
Location: Lulea
Teams: Milan
Posts: 23,795
People don't use Nuclear bombs if they don't want their whole family tree wiped off the face of the planet.
Johan is online now  
post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 00:50
Tim
Xtratime Legend
 
Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Texico
Posts: 33,807
All that nuclear weapons do in this day and age -- at least in the hands of a nation's military -- is protect against war. Nobody is going to use them offensively, because even the craziest dictators -- especially the craziest dictators -- value their power above everything else, and its difficult to stay in power when the country you rule was just wiped off the map in a nuclear response. Also, in that sense, at best they guard against an attack.
Tim is offline  
post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 01:52
Legend
Legend
 
Andrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2001
Location: Toronto
Teams: Partizan
Posts: 15,157
Ljubo, I don't think Turkey would have such an easy time against Iran. Although Turkey posseses one mean military.
Iran's military, if assaulted would most likely last much longer than Iraq's (which by itself does not say much) - however holding Iran would be orders of magnitude more difficult due it's larger size, larger population, fierce national pride, and diverse terrain.

But Tim is right - contrary to popular belief, Iran doesn't want nuclear weapons so it can nuke Israel. Israel already has nukes. Attacking them with nukes would certainly not be smart. The Iranians might produce a lot of rhetoric, but they are not stupid.

The reason smaller countries want nuclear weapons is to have them act as a deterrent against American attack (if you're someone like Iran or N. Korea) or against the attack of their archenemy (if you're Pakistan). Not to mention that Israel having nuclear weapons also makes the Muslim countries in the neighbourhood want to have them too. You get nukes because you feel threatened, not because you want to wipe X off the map.
Andrix is offline  
post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 02:16
gOD
***** *******
Legend
 
gOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12 1999
Location: Hippotopia
Teams: RSC Anderlecht
Posts: 14,672
Ah, how refreshing to see intelligence prevail in a discussion as this. Clap clap clap to Tim and Andrix

We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace!

26.000 Faces :frownani:
gOD is offline  
post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 03:01
Premier Player
 
Vinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: Buffalo, New York USA
Teams: Italia, Juventus
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
All that nuclear weapons do in this day and age -- at least in the hands of a nation's military -- is protect against war. Nobody is going to use them offensively, because even the craziest dictators -- especially the craziest dictators -- value their power above everything else, and its difficult to stay in power when the country you rule was just wiped off the map in a nuclear response. Also, in that sense, at best they guard against an attack.
when's the last time you heard a ruler of a country threaten to wipe another country off the map ??

if you havent noticed, Iran is the only country in the world run by Islamic revolutionaries

they would love nothing more than wiping Israel and the USA off the map, no matter the cost to themselves

FORZA ITALIA !!!!
Vinman is offline  
post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 03:16
Legend
Legend
 
Andrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2001
Location: Toronto
Teams: Partizan
Posts: 15,157
So what? It's just rhetoric.

Iran is run by Islamic revolutionaries? And?

Are they any worse than North Korea (run by a Stalin wannabe) or any of the extremely conservative Muslim monarchies in the Gulf?

Quote:
they would love nothing more than wiping Israel and the USA off the map, no matter the cost to themselves
Riight. I find myself wanting to say "stop watching FOX News" but somehow I doubt even they could come up with such stuff.
Andrix is offline  
post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 03:32
Forum Manager
Xtratime Elite
 
HajdukSplit's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: FL
Teams: Hajduk Split, Derby County
Posts: 68,661
hmm so it looks like I'll be going to North Korea or Iran... there is definetly going to be adraft is this goes on
HajdukSplit is offline  
post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 03:59
Tim
Xtratime Legend
 
Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Texico
Posts: 33,807
Talk is cheap. Iran, North Korea, and whoever else can talk about wiping other countries off the map all they want, but it's not going to happen. You can accuse them of being a lot of things, but the only negative characteristic their leaders possess that's important is megalomania.

bin Laden and al-Zawahri would also love to wipe Israel and the US, among others, off the map, but you don't see them volunteering to strap on a bomb vest and blow themselves to smithereens. No, they're too megalomaniacal to do that, and so instead they delegate the actual operations to their lackeys.

However, nuclear weapons are a different matter. Even if Ahmadinejad were to let someone else push the button, Iran would still disappear within a few minutes, and, like I said, it's difficult to be the supreme ruler of something that no longer exists... or when you've been vaporized in the first place.

It's easy to say that Iran would then attack indirectly by supplying terorists with suitcase nukes, but you don't need Iran in order to worry about that. A wide-open border and lots of inadequately-secured nukes and plutonium around the world, and the threat could come from almost anywhere.
Tim is offline  
post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 04:16
Forum Manager
Xtratime Elite
 
HajdukSplit's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2002
Location: FL
Teams: Hajduk Split, Derby County
Posts: 68,661
we can beat North Korea by just bring one slice of bread to the country
HajdukSplit is offline  
post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 04:25
Premier Player
 
Vinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: Buffalo, New York USA
Teams: Italia, Juventus
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
Riight. I find myself wanting to say "stop watching FOX News" but somehow I doubt even they could come up with such stuff.
well, its pretty obvious that you dont watch the news...its already been said

FORZA ITALIA !!!!
Vinman is offline  
post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 08:41
Star Player
 
Rafo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2001
Location: CA, USA
Teams: Bayern München
Posts: 4,552
It is clear that with any sort of attack on Iran, Iran will first bomb Israel(or threaten to do so). And that's something the US, UK and Israel want to avoid at any price. So when the first doesn't happen, the second won't either. It's all about threatening, ya know.

Only thing US can afford right now is strategic bombing of Iran. There is not enough man power to invade Iran, draft is needed. And I assure you Iran isn't as easy as Iraq to be occupied. Around 30 million (60% of the population) attended the last voting to choose the president. So there're still people who will die for this country. And don't forget the Basiji's who aren't considered among armed forces, but are capable are doing anything. They were the real reason we defeated Iraq in the war.

The country with almost 70 million population will put up some resistance, unlike Iraq. They even got some older models of Russian tanks (T62, T72), and if they can handle them properly, the road to Tehran can get really bumpy for the Americans. And last but not least, during 2006 Iran will be getting some Russian S300 air defence batteries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrix
Are they any worse than North Korea (run by a Stalin wannabe) or any of the extremely conservative Muslim monarchies in the Gulf?
.
Of course it isn't. As much as I hate the current regime, I accept the fact that the democrasy is much higher than most of the Middle East and Persian Gulf countries.
Rafo is offline  
post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 09:00
Star Player
 
Rafo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2001
Location: CA, USA
Teams: Bayern München
Posts: 4,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
Iran never had the world's fifth strongest army, or anything near as prestigious. One of the largest, perhaps, but never strongest.
.
It was a well-know fact back then (1975). Sorry if you can't Google and find it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinman
they would love nothing more than wiping Israel and the USA off the map, no matter the cost to themselves
What's that? The new brainwashing trend out there? Yeah, go hide somewhere, Axis of Evil is coming to get ya. :dielaugh:

It worked last time with Iraq's WMD bs, this excuse ain't bad either.
Rafo is offline  
post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 09:14
Xtratime Legend
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2002
Location: Lulea
Teams: Milan
Posts: 23,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by HajdukSplit
we can beat North Korea by just bring one slice of bread to the country
What do you mean? you already bring them tons of bread, what would one slice make as difference?
Johan is online now  
post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2006, 09:29
gOD
***** *******
Legend
 
gOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12 1999
Location: Hippotopia
Teams: RSC Anderlecht
Posts: 14,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo
The country with almost 70 million population will put up some resistance, unlike Iraq.
Indeed and apart from that, the political consequences on worldscale would be unseen (from the entire Arab world to China). Attacking Iran would be soo irresponsible, that even the Bush administration wouldn't do it

We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace!

26.000 Faces :frownani:
gOD is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome