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post #1 of 126 (permalink) Old January 28th, 2006, 12:54 Thread Starter
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Gay laws...

First things first, I hate the idea of homosexuality. I am stating this so that anyone reading would know on what side of the divide I am. In my life I have only once met an openly gay person (2 actually), in the Nigerian trading city of Onitsha, and when they made the mistake of revealing their sexual orientation, they were beaten to within an inch of their lives by a mob. I wasn't part of that mob because I personally don't like mob action for one, and besides, I didn't have any quarrels with the 2 men in question. I acknowledge that some gays (like some heterosexuals) are really evil people. In much the same way as some heterosexuals (like some gays) can really be good people. Having said that I think that homosexuals need to have their heads examined.

Now for the main thrust of this write up: in the last two weeks, we have heard of a proposal by the Nigerian government to ban all gay marriages in the country. My initial reaction to that news was: 'is it really what we are after now?' We don't have a homosexuality problem like South Africa say, so why are our officials falling over themselves to ban it at this point in time? We have more pressing issues (Ladoja for example).

The official government mouthpiece, the Minister of Information says that the legislation is "a pre-emptive step". And I ask, pre-emptive step against what? Nigerian society is still very patriachial and generally conservative, so what is he talking about?

According to the minister, "it is an offence for anybody to contract a marriage or have a relationship with a person of the same sex..." Duh! Anything new? It has been an offence around these parts since time imemorial.
"If you do, it carries a sentence of five years imprisonment without the option of fine," I mentioned the lynching of the two young men that I witnessed in Onitsha almost 2 years ago so that people would know that there has always been a prescribed punishment for that offenc. For crying out loud, they stone them to death in Northern Nigeria, and that is not about to change anytime soon...
"and if you aid or support in any way, anybody of the same sex to contract a relationship or marriage, it will also attract five years imprisonment." Let me say this now: if I find out that a close relation or friend of mine is gay, I'd talk to him and maybe send him to some mental institution on one pretext or the other than risk letting him enter a Nigerian prison. Those places are worse than hell!

But the crux of this whole debate is not the new bill, God knows that I support the bill on general principle. My quarrel is the proviso in the bill that states that "any form of protest concerning the law be it a march or demonstration or debate will be liable to the same punishment". For crying out loud why should we pass a law that once passed can never ever be revisited?

That in itself is an assault on the rights of all Nigerians to free speech and free association. It will end up being used as a tool for witch hunting people. I know my Naija. In Nigeria a lot of young men opt to stay with their friends because of the costs of accomodation especially in urban centres. Ditto young women. Imagine a situation where I have a roomate (who is a guy) say, and at the same time I have my eye on a girl who some guy somewhere has his eye on. What prevents that third guy from going to the anti-gay police which would be created to enforce this law and denouncing my roomate and myself as a gay couple, just so he can get me out of the way? Nothing! And let's not kid ourselves, IT WILL HAPPEN. Laws are made to guide our general conduct, and should be subject to review from time to time. The new law being passed is draconian, and way too unnecessary.

Another annoying aspect of this whole thing is that the law is being proposed by a set of people (Nigeria's ruling class) whose antecedents are nothing short of horrible. Our vice president is reputed to be a bisexual. Would the law get him? We saw the implementation of Shar'ia laws in some of our Northern (and as a result Muslim dominated) states. At least 6 years ago. Have we since then heard of cases where people of the ruling class were caught under the Shar'ia law? Not one. That is hypocrisy. That is the problem of Nigeria's ruling classes. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم ) never supported hypocrisy. So our rulers should clean up their acts before trying to shackle the led.

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post #2 of 126 (permalink) Old January 28th, 2006, 15:37
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I'm going to ignore the bit about examined heads and mental institutions because this has been debated extensivelly in the past right here.

Now... What actually worries me is that you're more concerned with the enforcement and practical sides of the "anti-gay" law rather than it's principles. I realise societies are different in many aspects, but since homosexuals are being lynched anyway, what the hell difference does it make whether they are penalised by the state or not? Surely the problem lays somewhere else. (And that is valid even if you see homosexuality as a mental disorder).

In any case, any law about homosexuality is bound to fail. A certain percentage of people always were and always will be homosexual, or at least feel that way, and there is nothing that can stop that. The various practices you describe (lynching, beating up etc.) are obviously preventing them from "coming out" anyway so it all is rather pointless.

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post #3 of 126 (permalink) Old January 28th, 2006, 17:42
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Besides the difference in sexual preference, gays are like all other people. There are smart gays and dumb gays, good gays and bad gays. Being gay doesn't make them inherently better or worse members of society.

Therefore, I find homophobia as useful as racism. While I'm not a fan of trying to "force" acceptance of gays by bringing special attention to them, there is no reason not to extend to gays equal rights under the law, including marriage.

I'm not very familiar with the Nigerian legal system, however, and with how much Sharia law plays a role there. If it plays a significant role and marriage is not just a legal but also a religious concept in the eyes of the law, I suppose then it's a different matter.
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post #4 of 126 (permalink) Old January 28th, 2006, 17:55 Thread Starter
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In both the mainly Muslim North and Christian South, most laws are deeply rooted in religous beliefs.

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post #5 of 126 (permalink) Old January 29th, 2006, 00:00
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Originally Posted by Tim
If it plays a significant role and marriage is not just a legal but also a religious concept in the eyes of the law, I suppose then it's a different matter.
Considering the incident that Chxta described and labelled as something common, I doubt gays in Nigeria would actually get married even if the law allowed it.

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post #6 of 126 (permalink) Old January 29th, 2006, 21:27
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Lynch them faggots by day, wank to good ol' trannies by night - a closet homosexual's favorite past time.

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post #7 of 126 (permalink) Old January 29th, 2006, 22:41
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Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
A certain percentage of people always were and always will be homosexual, or at least feel that way, and there is nothing that can stop that.
Why would a certain percentage of people always be homosexual? Are you saying its genetic?




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post #8 of 126 (permalink) Old January 29th, 2006, 22:45
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Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
Why would a certain percentage of people always be homosexual? Are you saying its genetic?
THat's precisely what it is.

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post #9 of 126 (permalink) Old January 29th, 2006, 23:11
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

One recent hypothesis on the formation of sexual orientation is the prenatal hormonal theory. It holds that as prenatal exposure to particular levels of circulating sex hormones determines whether a fetus will acquire male or female traits, so similar exposure determines sexual orientation. However this begins with genetic susceptibility. Twin studies provide strong support for this theory, with a high concordance rate in identical twins, who share 100% of their genetic material. Fraternal twins, as with siblings born at different times, share only 50% of their genetic material on average and are much less likely to both be homosexual. In a fetus that carries the genetic susceptibility for homosexuality, sex hormones from the mother and sex hormones from the gonads of the fetus (to a lesser extent) trigger the expression of those genes.

Although identical twins have identical genes and almost always share a placenta, they do have their individual umbilical cords, providing subtle differences in the chemical environment for the developing brain. There are differences in identical twins, such as fingerprints, which are unique in each individual. Fingerprints are formed during the second trimester of pregnancy; lesbians often share a unique fingerprint swirl, adding to the mounting evidence that homosexuality is caused by genetic susceptibility triggered by the prenatal hormonal environment.


Homosexual behaviour is common in the animal kingdom, especially in species closer to humans on the evolutionary scale, such as the great apes.

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post #10 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 07:40
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pitty Luigi Vampa doesnt post anymore. He would prove that homosexuality is a mental disease.....
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post #11 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 07:42
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Just to make sure ....

American Psychological Association... (www.apa.org)

.."The literature that classifies homosexuality and bisexuality as mental illness has been found to be methodologically unsound. Gonsiorek (1991) reviewed this literature and found serious methodological flaws including unclear definition of terms, inaccurate classification of subjects, inappropriate comparison of groups, discrepant sampling procedures, an ignorance of confounding social factors, and questionable outcome measures. The results from these flawed studies have been used to support theories of homosexuality as mental illness and/or arrested psychosexual development. Although these studies concluded that homosexuality is a mental illness, they have no valid empirical support and serve as the foundation for beliefs that lead to inaccurate representations of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people.

All major American mental health associations have affirmed that homosexuality is not a mental illness. In 1975, the American Psychological Association (APA) urged all psychologists to "take the lead in removing the stigma long associated with homosexual orientations" (Conger, 1975, p. 633). Subsequently, the APA and all other major mental health associations adopted a number of resolutions and policy statements founded on this basic principle, which has also been embodied in their ethical codes (cf. American Association for Marriage & Family Therapy, 1991; American Counseling Association, 1996; Canadian Psychological Association, 1995: National Association of Social Workers, 1996). In addition, this principle has informed a number of APA amicus curiae briefs (Bersoff & Ogden, 1987).

Thus, psychologists affirm that a homosexual or bisexual orientation is not a mental illness (APA, 1998). "In their work-related activities, psychologists do not engage in unfair discrimination based on ... sexual orientation..." (APA, 1992). Furthermore, psychologists assist clients in overcoming the effects of stigmatization that may lead to emotional distress."..
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post #12 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 08:36
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Conclusion: don't move to Nigeria anytime soon.
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post #13 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 09:55
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Conclusion: don't move to Nigeria anytime soon.

Conclusion: Johan just outed himself.
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post #14 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 10:02
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I can't understand why people spend so much of their time venting their hatred towards homosexuals. If you don't like men who are with men, just be glad that you are not into that and let everyone enjoy their own coney castle. Gay hatred is sooo last century.

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post #15 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 10:07
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Sounds like Nigeria needs a visit from Big Gay Al.


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post #16 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 12:00
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Conclusion: Johan just outed himself.
Hey, you know what I'd be liking oh and maybe you need to reread his post.

Stop the hating Osman. It certainly isn't smashing, I am fabolously not that. That said, would you think pink or red would go best in my bedroom? I think red is nice, but pink fits better with my flower arrangment...
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post #17 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 12:32
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Why would a certain percentage of people always be homosexual? Are you saying its genetic?
why are you always the one making the stupid questions?
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post #18 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 12:35
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oh and people that lynch people is the reason why Nigerian congress will pull such law, in the end politicians are a mirror of our society. Now I can understand how Africa is ****ed up, seems we share some common problems, glad to see that at least we are a bit ahead of times here.
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post #19 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 13:28
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Why would a certain percentage of people always be homosexual? Are you saying its genetic?
Yes.

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post #20 of 126 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2006, 16:47
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In other news...Nigeria bans travel by men and women on the same public transport...in accordance with sharia.

This thread has received all the attention it deserves.
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