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post #1 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 17:08 Thread Starter
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Abortion !!

Guys I want to know your opinion on abortion, I am going to be honest here, I am totally against it. Whats more important? The woman's right to choose, or the unborn baby's right to live?

I have heard the arguement for, and some women to me sound so selfish when explaining their reasons. The other day on TV some women who is semi-famous, who had an abortion was asked how she feels about it. She said nothing, its pointless to think about it :eekani: :thmbdown: Potentially a human being was killed, and its pointless to think about it.

I think there are certain cases like in rape, where one could try to find a justification for it, but I think a woman's right to choose ends the minute she decideds to have unprotected sex.

This might make me unpopular with the ladies in XT, but I am being honest and giving what I truly think.
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post #2 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 19:20
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Don't like abortion if i had it my way Abortion would only be legal for rape or incest.

Partial birth and late term abortions should be terminated ASAP.
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post #3 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 19:30
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post #4 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 20:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croatian batman
Don't like abortion if i had it my way Abortion would only be legal for rape or incest.

Partial birth and late term abortions should be terminated ASAP.
Why don't you "like" abortion? What is the difference between a baby conceived from a relationship, and a baby conceived from a rape?

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post #5 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 20:43
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I am theoretically against abortion (except in rape cases and cases of medical necessity) but dont really want to live in a society were women have abortions in dirty cellars.
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post #6 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 20:44
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again, why should there be a difference?

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post #7 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 21:09
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I'm entirely in favour of abortion. I don't care what the circumstances are. Given how the pro-choice lobby is portrayed and stigmatised, I guess that makes me an arch-feminist.

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post #8 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 21:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
I'm entirely in favour of abortion. I don't care what the circumstances are. Given how the pro-choice lobby is portrayed and stigmatised, I guess that makes me an arch-feminist.
That used to work for me, but then I realized that as a feminist supporting abortion, I was agreeing to the destruction of fellow females.

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post #9 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
Why don't you "like" abortion? What is the difference between a baby conceived from a relationship, and a baby conceived from a rape?
I'll field that one- The rape victim is in no way responsible for the conception of the child she bears.




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post #10 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
I'll field that one- The rape victim is in no way responsible for the conception of the child she bears.
But the child is conceived either way. The child exists. It is not the child's fault that the father was a rapist. The child is the same no matter who the father is. There is no difference between the types of conception. It's all or nothing.

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post #11 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
I'll field that one- The rape victim is in no way responsible for the conception of the child she bears.
Humbird's question is not about the victim, is about the baby. What is the difference between the babies?

The answer is none. If you are against abortion because of protecting the life of the unborn, then there is no difference between their lives.

Life is life.

Edit; darn, bird, you are way too fast

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post #12 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barça
Edit; darn, bird, you are way too fast
Fastbird!

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post #13 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
But the child is conceived either way. The child exists. It is not the child's fault that the father was a rapist. The child is the same no matter who the father is. There is no difference between the types of conception. It's all or nothing.
Its not a principle, its a compromise. I am not FOR women killing fetuses conceived of rape, its a concession.

Aborting rape-fetuses has more hope of being justified than aborting babies conceived through willful consensual sex. Not because consensual babies have more value but because of the circumstances in which the child and her mother (and her father) will live and what they will have to experience.

If I had a fairy god-mother abortion would not have to occur at all.




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post #14 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
because of the circumstances in which the child and her mother (and her father) will live and what they will have to experience.
:eekani: So, one would be killing the baby to protect him/her. How does that work?

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post #15 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:45
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Humbird:

Physically their isn't a difference. But just if a woman willingly engaged in a sexual encounter she knew the risk when getting it on so i have little sympathy for someone like her. She should've known better.

But a woman raped by some animal is very different in my eyes. She had no choice it was taken out of her hands. Having a pregnancy is emotional and stressful enough but having to experience a pregnancy when someone raped you that must be hard. I mean that baby could be a physical reincarnation of that day that women got raped. I mean having to look at that child and having to raise that child whose father is a man that committed one of the most horrific acts imaginable upon you. Or could you imagine if that kid looks alot like the father that would kill me. And then having to explain to your kid that your father is an animal that hurt me.

God thats tough to handle. I knew a women who had to face this difficult choice. She was a nurse at a hospital and came to speak at a right to life club meeting. She was a white women with a white husband and had a few kids already. She was raped by some black guy who was some mental case patient at the hospital. She got pregnant but her and her husband kept the kid. The kid came out dark skinned and looked very much like her attacker. She said that was the toughest thing. She said it was almost a constant image of the her attacker that did to her. But she put that behind her as did the husband. She raised the kid as her own and her husband loved the kid like it was his own. The kids looked at the kid as their brother and loved him just the same. How those two could raise that kid with so much love even though they knew how horrible his father was and how horrible the act was that created him. And how she put her attack behind her and put her baby in front of her. I don't know who goes to heaven and who doesn't but I know those two are going up their.

But once again thats so tough to deal with. I'll leave the women who was attacked the choice of what she thinks is best for her ona rape instance.

Last edited by croatian batman; December 14th, 2005 at 22:56.
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post #16 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:51
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cb has a point, if we're talking about being "pro-choice", well my view on choice is that you make that choice when you choose whether to have sex or not. Obviously if you don't choose to have sex but are forced into it that's different. You didn't have the choice. So that argument is in fact consistent with the "pro-choice" chant...
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post #17 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 22:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barça
:eekani: So, one would be killing the baby to protect him/her. How does that work?
Now now, no twisting of words allowed. I didnt say that at all. Go back and read over my post. I think I covered all the bases there.




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post #18 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 23:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
Now now, no twisting of words allowed. I didnt say that at all. Go back and read over my post. I think I covered all the bases there.
I did, I still got the same. You say that "Not because consensual babies have more value but because of the circumstances in which the child and her mother (and her father) will live and what they will have to experience"

That to me means that becuse of how the child (mother and father) will live and what they will experience is ok to 'compromise" and abort the baby.

cb;

The problem with your argument is that you are still killing a human being. I understand the hardship of the woman in question, but what about the baby? In my opinion, no hardship justifies the killing of that baby.

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post #19 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 23:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barça
I did, I still got the same. You say that "Not because consensual babies have more value but because of the circumstances in which the child and her mother (and her father) will live and what they will have to experience"

That to me means that becuse of how the child (mother and father) will live and what they will experience is ok to 'compromise" and abort the baby.

cb;

The problem with your argument is that you are still killing a human being. I understand the hardship of the woman in question, but what about the baby? In my opinion, no hardship justifies the killing of that baby.
I said that it would provide slightly more justification. Unless you want to take a hardline against abortion which is realistically impossible.




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post #20 of 305 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 23:53
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Two-part reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by croatian batman
She should've known better.
Just as she should have known better, so should have he; he is, after all, as responsable for the pregnancy as she is. I think the key is beyond teaching just the birds and the bees: i.e. teaching both male and female mutual respect as well as self respect. This is something that I see as lamentably lacking, and thus we have kids screwing around because their elders are too chicken shit to hit the message home that your self worth doesn't lie in how much ass you get. It's too late to make much of a difference when she's already contemplating termination.

Quote:
Having a pregnancy is emotional and stressful enough but having to experience a pregnancy when someone raped you that must be hard.
I'm going to out myself, but I think what I have to say is important to this discussion, so bear with me because I've lived with it for almost four years. The main reason why I scoff at those who are against both the use of contraceptives and against abortion is because my being on the pill prevented an abortion from happening. For a time, I was seeing a guy, and a month into our dating, he threw a party. I stayed after to help him clean up; he wanted to get it on and I didn't. He didn't care what I thought, and after he fought me down, he did his business. He didn't use any protection, and it was at a point where I could have been knocked up. I want to kiss whomever developed Ortho-Novum, because I would have terminated had I got pregnant. It's already bad enough that a **** like that exists; I could not have lived with bringing anything of his into the world.
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