Originally Posted by IVO
I don't know why people didn't complain about it back then. Does that make it okay right now?
Everything you hear is stupid isn't it? That's not an argument though. Tell me why it's stupid because I don't even know what you mean.
Once again the ATF with permission from congress and the President committed alot of questionable tactics such as spying and roaming wire taps to stop the mountain men and groups who sympathize with Timothy McVeigh. This was only ten years ago i heard little to no outrage (their shouldn've been none anyways). And this issue isn't about the past its still happens today! The mob and the gangs are still alive and well and these tactics the government uses on terrorist right now are being used against the mob and some gangs right now on all levels of government. Why doesn't someone say thats an infringement on personal freedom?
When is someone going to stand up and say something about these questionable tactics? If your going to make an issues about personal freedoms don't pick your spots. And the examples i've listed here and make no mistake their are probably even more out their that have had similar tactics, laws passed that all might be questionable under the consistitution. Why are some of these tactics now a problem with terrorism?
This debate doesn't incudue enemy combatant stuff thats another issue in my eyes. But regarding the so called domestic spying scandal and the patriot act. These things aren't anything new in US law enforcement.
And as i said before this current debate has alot to do with politics.
The reason today we hear outrage is because Bush is president. I think the people who always talk about this personal freedom stuff in the US are people of the left (at least for right now) and a small number of right wing libertarian (their consistent). Now you think if Clinton passed the patriot act would the left be outraged?
But the right wing would be though. Most politicians are utter hypocrites and will try to bash one figure under any circumstances if the political climate is right. When the patriot act first was passed nobody had a problem because you couldn't have a problem if you were a politician from the left. Bush was so popular he'd trample over you politically. But now that Bush is lower in the polls now these politicans feel its the right time to strike a President and the opposing party when they are low in the polls on a variety of issues.
Bush is down in the polls. So the left is getting everything off its chest now because they can they are more popular than the other side right now. They'll bash him on anything right now. If this story of the domestic spying popped up in 2002 the news media would've never given it coverage and outside of a few brave souls in congress who actually have a belief system nobody would give a damn what so ever. Republicans would do the same thing if they were in the Dems situation.
The funny thing is the average American doesn't really care about this personal freedom stuff, terror alert stuff. They think in much simpler terms. I haven't been attacked on home soil since 9/11 so all these measures might be working. Very few people don't like Bush because of domestic spying or the Patriot Act very few. They are unhappy about the war!
Originally Posted by IVO
Your last paragraph perfectly illustrates how bogus the war on terrorism really is. The bush administration has no problem sending American citizens to war in the middle east so that they can "protect" the country from terrorism. Yet at home they don't see to really want to protect anybody do they? If the federal government really thought terrorism was such a threat, don't you think that you and other Americans would know what to do because you've been taught what to do? Why can the federal government protect you by sending the army half way across the world but not in your own backyard?
The federal government knew that if a Cat 3 hurricane hit New Orleans the city would be in shambles! I think its fair to say their response wasn't too good.
I'm sure the feds really cared about the people of the Gulf as they do the safety of all Americans. But their lack of response and planning wasn't for a lack of compassion, concern or understanding but rather the typical and far too common bureaucratic stupidity.
And i'm sure if NYC is hit again the feds will be in a similar position as a Katrina.