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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old December 9th, 2005, 04:02 Thread Starter
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The War on Terror....

What are your thoughts on the War on Terror so far considered a war that's been unpopular with so many.Personally IMO I feel that as I'm from Australia it's certainly something that we didn't need here and it appears It's always the centre of attention.How much we have to keep pumping into defence from our Budget's as Issues on our home front struggle to get attention.

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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old December 10th, 2005, 20:38
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There is no war on terror

This is the begining of the road to World War 3, not my words but from the famous Jerry Falwell. America wants to grab strategically important countries, but everyone from Israel to China to Pakistan is using it to destroy opposition and cover everything with terrorism.

This war is being used to curtain liberty and human rights, and by default it gives the state enormous power to act as it pleases, with out a war on terror there would not be a war in Iraq etc . . . .

Times ahead of us are dark, if we let the elected morons run amok and create unecessary conflict.

I am not condoning the methods of terror groups, but if there are genuine grievances we should look it. For every one "terrorist" we kill another 10 will take his place, the only thing that can happen is esclation of the level of violence, and sooner or later we have to sit at negotiating tables.

John Garang, Menachem Begin etc . . . were all terrorist's and then ended up in governtments, this shows how easily "terrorists" can be rehabilitated.

Just my 2 cents
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old December 11th, 2005, 09:47
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terrorism has been blown out of proportion i mean its been around for decades, also there are different types of terrorist, you can't just group them all together, some so-called terrorist are fighting for a worthy cause while others are committing terrorist acts just for the sake of terrorism

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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old December 11th, 2005, 17:52
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The guy in your avatar if he was around now, would end in Guantanamo Bay
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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old December 14th, 2005, 19:09
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If this is a war on terror and the architect of terrorism is Bin Laden why are there 100,000 US soldiers in Iraq and only 10,000 in Afghanistan where Bin Laden resides?
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old December 24th, 2005, 15:52 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panicos
If this is a war on terror and the architect of terrorism is Bin Laden why are there 100,000 US soldiers in Iraq and only 10,000 in Afghanistan where Bin Laden resides?
Who really knows where Bin Laden is? :eekani: In any event it's proved what a waste of a war it has been.

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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old December 26th, 2005, 11:59
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I thinK it was a good initial idea, but it was carried out in an improper fashion.

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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old December 26th, 2005, 15:59
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I think it is a pathetic and deceptive war.
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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 09:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarich
terrorism has been blown out of proportion i mean its been around for decades, also there are different types of terrorist, you can't just group them all together, some so-called terrorist are fighting for a worthy cause while others are committing terrorist acts just for the sake of terrorism
The cause isn't as important as the effect.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2006, 23:45
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We all know that the whole thing was just about oil...

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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 07:01 Thread Starter
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Little arselicker John Howard has brought Terrorism to Australia and created a "war on Freedom" as has George Bush and Tony Blair.They rave on like Terrorist are the root of all eveil,but really we can look no further than see who really are the greedy one's trying to hide behind the one's they had relations with until things turned ugly.

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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 17:13
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It's sad how many governments around the world have used terrorism as an excuse to take away personal freedoms. And I guess it's even more sad that many people agree with what they're doing.
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 18:51
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This notion that terrorism is overblown is just plain stupid.

If you would've told us that on 9/10, that 19 hijackers would've caused so much havoc and killed as many people as they did and throw our economy to crap for a year or two. Alot of people would've gotten up and laughed in your face.

I believe Al-Qadea and their friends are very dangerous. They have one goal to destroy the West and America. Just ask them they are a group of fanatics they believe in crap that belongs in the middle ages! Sadly i think most of the public have just tried to polticize security and now have lost sight of what might happen. Sadly i know it sounds harsh but i think America might need another terrorist attack to wake it up to the threat.
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarich
terrorism has been blown out of proportion i mean its been around for decades, also there are different types of terrorist, you can't just group them all together, some so-called terrorist are fighting for a worthy cause while others are committing terrorist acts just for the sake of terrorism

No its not the stakes are just higher and the goals are more grandiose.

The IRA, Hamas, KLA etc are groups that are localized and their goals revolve around nationalism. These new guys goals are total destruction of a group of people. On top of that with the economy as globalized as it is and the availability or bigger more powerful weapons. Sprinkle it the fact that these guys have little regard for their life and believe god is on their side. Not a safe combo.
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 19:16
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No what's stupid is having colour-coded terrorism alert levels. What's stupid is acting lke the threat of terrorism is omnipresent. What's stupid is buying "terrorism kits." What's stupid is allowing a government to trample on inalienable rights and use "national security" as an excuse without ever having to justify it in any other way.

Isn't it ironic that both al-qaida and the bush administration both hate freedom?
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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 20:28
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What personal freedoms?

I have to take my shoes off at the airport? Oh boy Thomas Jefferson must be spinning in his grave!

All this "personal freedom", patriot act, and spying on American junk is quite possibly the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

Did you know we've passed laws on the federal and local level like roaming wire taps, secret search warrants, heck searches without warrants etc. On the Klan, Hick mountain men, mobsters, and gangs all across the US. Lyndon Johnson basically committed many illegal acts trying to get the clan. Illegal surviellance etc. I believe several Klan memebers were let go because of this.

The ATF had wire taps on mountian men that were warrantless. (Ask Clinton about that)

Police have done the same to local street gangs.

The Rico laws basically allow the government to do anything it wants when pursuing a mobster.

Did the average joe give a damn that these pieces of garbage where treated like this. Simple answer no! Nobody's hearts bleeds that their pathetic rights might have been trampled on!

Yet now terrorsim shows up and now the weirdo's now have a problem with "personal freedoms"? Where was a peep when we we're doing it to these characters? Where? I've yet to hear them? But alas terrorism now we have to talk about personal freedoms why i don't know. Why didn't they have a problem back then because its simple. As usual its people politics?


I truly feel NYC will be hit again sometime soon and i think the public has to have a basic understanding on what to do in a situation of a dirty bomb, biological, nuclear god forbid (Something better than hide under your desk stuff). I work in the downtown area i would like to have some clue on what to do and not have millions of people running around like chickens without a head. Just like the West coast has earthquake plans and the coastline has hurricane plans. NYC, LA, Washington and a few other cities should take these things a little more seriously. NYC though has been pretty good the local government here tries to be more independent when dealing with a crisis. Rather than relying on the state or federal government to save the day (which they never do)
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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 20:47
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I don't know why people didn't complain about it back then. Does that make it okay right now?

Everything you hear is stupid isn't it? That's not an argument though. Tell me why it's stupid because I don't even know what you mean.

Your last paragraph perfectly illustrates how bogus the war on terrorism really is. The bush administration has no problem sending American citizens to war in the middle east so that they can "protect" the country from terrorism. Yet at home they don't see to really want to protect anybody do they? If the federal government really thought terrorism was such a threat, don't you think that you and other Americans would know what to do because you've been taught what to do? Why can the federal government protect you by sending the army half way across the world but not in your own backyard?
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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 21:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVO
I don't know why people didn't complain about it back then. Does that make it okay right now?

Everything you hear is stupid isn't it? That's not an argument though. Tell me why it's stupid because I don't even know what you mean.
Once again the ATF with permission from congress and the President committed alot of questionable tactics such as spying and roaming wire taps to stop the mountain men and groups who sympathize with Timothy McVeigh. This was only ten years ago i heard little to no outrage (their shouldn've been none anyways). And this issue isn't about the past its still happens today! The mob and the gangs are still alive and well and these tactics the government uses on terrorist right now are being used against the mob and some gangs right now on all levels of government. Why doesn't someone say thats an infringement on personal freedom?

When is someone going to stand up and say something about these questionable tactics? If your going to make an issues about personal freedoms don't pick your spots. And the examples i've listed here and make no mistake their are probably even more out their that have had similar tactics, laws passed that all might be questionable under the consistitution. Why are some of these tactics now a problem with terrorism?

This debate doesn't incudue enemy combatant stuff thats another issue in my eyes. But regarding the so called domestic spying scandal and the patriot act. These things aren't anything new in US law enforcement.

And as i said before this current debate has alot to do with politics.

The reason today we hear outrage is because Bush is president. I think the people who always talk about this personal freedom stuff in the US are people of the left (at least for right now) and a small number of right wing libertarian (their consistent). Now you think if Clinton passed the patriot act would the left be outraged?

NO.
But the right wing would be though. Most politicians are utter hypocrites and will try to bash one figure under any circumstances if the political climate is right. When the patriot act first was passed nobody had a problem because you couldn't have a problem if you were a politician from the left. Bush was so popular he'd trample over you politically. But now that Bush is lower in the polls now these politicans feel its the right time to strike a President and the opposing party when they are low in the polls on a variety of issues.

Bush is down in the polls. So the left is getting everything off its chest now because they can they are more popular than the other side right now. They'll bash him on anything right now. If this story of the domestic spying popped up in 2002 the news media would've never given it coverage and outside of a few brave souls in congress who actually have a belief system nobody would give a damn what so ever. Republicans would do the same thing if they were in the Dems situation.

The funny thing is the average American doesn't really care about this personal freedom stuff, terror alert stuff. They think in much simpler terms. I haven't been attacked on home soil since 9/11 so all these measures might be working. Very few people don't like Bush because of domestic spying or the Patriot Act very few. They are unhappy about the war!



Quote:
Originally Posted by IVO
Your last paragraph perfectly illustrates how bogus the war on terrorism really is. The bush administration has no problem sending American citizens to war in the middle east so that they can "protect" the country from terrorism. Yet at home they don't see to really want to protect anybody do they? If the federal government really thought terrorism was such a threat, don't you think that you and other Americans would know what to do because you've been taught what to do? Why can the federal government protect you by sending the army half way across the world but not in your own backyard?
The federal government knew that if a Cat 3 hurricane hit New Orleans the city would be in shambles! I think its fair to say their response wasn't too good.

I'm sure the feds really cared about the people of the Gulf as they do the safety of all Americans. But their lack of response and planning wasn't for a lack of compassion, concern or understanding but rather the typical and far too common bureaucratic stupidity.

And i'm sure if NYC is hit again the feds will be in a similar position as a Katrina.
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 23:07
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Good to see that while I'm in the process of moving area codes that someone like Croatian Batman is watching the shop and bitchslapping peons into an oblivion with common sense and knowledge.

Keep it up CB. I owe you a beer sometime.
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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 23:37
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Apparently the excuse used to justify arbitrary and unregulated surveillance of citizens is that the application process for acquiring a warrant takes too long.

Why is it that nothing is being accomplished to sort out the process? Yes, infringing on personal liberties when in a time of crisis might be justifiable depending on the circumstances, but would you rather not sort out the NSA/DHS issue instead of infringing on civil liberties?

Its like we're faced by a mountain of bureaucracy that we ourselves created. And this bureaucracy itself is putting our nation under threat. The irony. So why not attack, streamline, reform, alter the bureaucracy instead of handing over so much unchecked power into the hands of a select few who's performance leaves so much to be desired in the first place?

In many ways the fear of terrorism has a greater effect on a persons life than an act of terrorism itself. Seeing the way terrorism was so cleverly used to boost a certain someone's approval ratings in the past makes you wonder...

And lets not even get into the "success" Bush experienced after 9/11. When colored by emotions after a very recent terrorist attack anything and anybody can come to become a hero. Though it was pointed at Giuliani, Sharpton said it best "Bozo the Clown could have united the city after the Sept. 11, 2001".

How bout a reply in bitch-slap form as my Californian colleague so aptly puts it?




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