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post #1 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 04:12 Thread Starter
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SiCG lives on.

I know this should probably go in the PD forum. But I do not have access there. At least in our own forum we have more control and less chance of the "usual suspects" destroying it.

Stop Djukanovic, says Montenegrin opposition

KOLASIN -- Tuesday – The president of the Montenegrin Socialist People’s Party, Predrag Bulatovic, reiterated today that there will be no referendum on independence for the state because government will not have the required two thirds majority in the parliament.

Bulatovic, speaking to party members in Kolasin, said that the aim of the Montenegrin regime was to use the referendum to consolidate power, which was why it wanted to separate from Serbia at any cost. :frustrat:

“Djukanovic believes he will be the president of an independent state. However, I can tell him that next year he will be on trial before the Montenegrin nation,” said Bulatovic.

He told supporters that the party would be the strongest in the government next year and called on the opposition to stop quarrelling and fight together against the regime and for the preservation of the federal state.

Bulatovic said that in 2006 Montenegro would have the opportunity of holding a referendum but was not under any obligation to do so.

“I can tell him that there will be no referendum because, without the opposition – and the two thirds majority which parliament needs in order to adopt a referendum act, the government can do nothing. In any case we shan’t talk to him with the mediation of the European community,” he added.

Bulatovic believes that, despite Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic’s statement that he will even oppose the European community for the sake or re-establishing Montenegro’s statehood, the prime minister understands that without the opposition there is no way forward.

He emphasised that the opposition must contest local elections in Cetinje and Mojkovac together in order to thwart Djukanovic.

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post #2 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 04:16 Thread Starter
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another significant article

Altering borders “will not be discussed”

STRASBURG -- Wednesday – Altering borders in Europe is impossible, and discussing such things would be a waste of time, said Erhard Busek.

“If we look at it through a European perspective, borders will not be important in the future. Creating borders just to take them down later is an impossible process.” the Special Coordinator of the Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe said.

Busek said that the ideas of Serbia losing the territory of Kosovo or receiving territories in Bosnia-Herzegovina, such as the Republic of Srpska, as compensation, should not be included in discussing Kosovo’s future status. :thmbdown:

“I think that this has to do with voices in Serbia saying that if there are changes made to Kosovo, a form of compensation must exist. It is important to be direct and say that altering borders in Europe is not possible.” Busek told the Voice of America.

Busek said that there is no chance of solving the Kosovo status issues in the manner of a big bang.

“A big bang means that some are talking about fast solutions in the direction of having Kosovo fully integrated into Serbia, and others are talking about its independence. This is not possible. I think we need to take this step by step.” Busek said, adding that the Republic of Srpska is also hoping for changes to be made to its borders, which is why it is refusing to take part in current reform plans.

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post #3 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 12:55
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Its only natural that ppl from Srpska will veto all government offices in BiH if Kosovo becomes independant.
Even if Srpska doesnt leave Bosna, we can bring Bosna down since we own 49% of land.

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post #4 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 15:59
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I hope Bulatovic turns out to be right about bringing that piece of sh!t Djukanovic in front of the court. Otherwise, I still have to see wether this union will work. It may offend some Montenegrins, but IMO the name of the country should be Serbia, simple as and the whole fit about the new anthem and flag has gotten pretty annoying as well.

As for RS, if Kosovo gets it's independence, at least the citizens of Republika Srpska will have to get theirs as well. So either way, the international community will have to think hard before they make a lasting decision.
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post #5 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 18:29
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No,

I am serb and the Country should be named Serbia and Montenegro, elsewise you always have these people like Djukanovic trying to make a story out of it.

I don`t have a problem. I kinda like it!
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post #6 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 21:17
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there are no such things as montenegreons

they are all Serbians. Not Montenegrians.


sorry if I offend anybody, but it is true.
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post #7 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 21:32 Thread Starter
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Montenegro has always had their own identity. I however agree that most Orthodox people from that area consider themselves as Serbian. The name Serbia and Montenegro is fine by me.

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post #8 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 22:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleka
Montenegro has always had their own identity. I however agree that most Orthodox people from that area consider themselves as Serbian. The name Serbia and Montenegro is fine by me.
Thats not correct, Montenegro was one of the many a provinces in Empierial Serbia.
When the rest of Serbia fell to the Ottomans Montengro was spared, from the Turkish invasion because of the harsh terrain which gave a good defensive position. There they managed to continue the old way of life for 500 yrs, while the rest of the serbs were under the ottoman yoke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:D..._Srbija200.jpg

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post #9 of 291 (permalink) Old December 1st, 2005, 23:56 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PartizanBeograd
Thats not correct, Montenegro was one of the many a provinces in Empierial Serbia.
When the rest of Serbia fell to the Ottomans Montengro was spared, from the Turkish invasion because of the harsh terrain which gave a good defensive position. There they managed to continue the old way of life for 500 yrs, while the rest of the serbs were under the ottoman yoke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:D..._Srbija200.jpg
Wasn't it still a province with its own identity? That is what I am saying.

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post #10 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 01:02
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Originally Posted by Fleka
Montenegro has always had their own identity. I however agree that most Orthodox people from that area consider themselves as Serbian. The name Serbia and Montenegro is fine by me.
yea but either way they are the same ppl, my families from crna gora, but im a serb either way

Last edited by Kezman9; December 2nd, 2005 at 01:08.
post #11 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 02:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleka
Wasn't it still a province with its own identity? That is what I am saying.
All of them had thier own identities, thats why they have different kolos/accents/nosnjas(cloths) from different areas. And all of them had thier own Kings.
Like Lazar from Kosovo(pec area if i remenber correctly)

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post #12 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 06:15
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Ok, that's like saying, we came from the same mother and father, but we have no blood relation at all? My mom's Montenegran, thus we are 100% Serbs. This type of Montenegran idenity is absurd! We're all Serbs from the same country. Djukanovic, is a gangster plain and simple on someone's payroll? As for Kosovo, they can't gaurantee basic human rights, state developement, and integration. How the heck, are they going to be an independent state, and with the war on terror going on, I don't think Europe will want to see another Bosnia in the Balkans.

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post #13 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 07:06 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by deki94
Ok, that's like saying, we came from the same mother and father, but we have no blood relation at all? My mom's Montenegran, thus we are 100% Serbs. This type of Montenegran idenity is absurd! We're all Serbs from the same country. Djukanovic, is a gangster plain and simple on someone's payroll? As for Kosovo, they can't gaurantee basic human rights, state developement, and integration. How the heck, are they going to be an independent state, and with the war on terror going on, I don't think Europe will want to see another Bosnia in the Balkans.

I mean Montenegro as a state or province not as a people.

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post #14 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 12:32
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Come on guys, wtf are you talking about? Montenegrians have every right to declare themselves as whatever they way. IMO, it is not about that. It is about saving the union because I believe that people in both republics would be better off and that the country as a whole would/could be stronger than two separate countries. Not to mention our domination of world sports...

But the kind of attitude where people say "Oh, they are 100% Serbs" or "We should wipe out Montenegro from the name and have Boze Pravde as the anthem" is exactly what Djukanovic and the likes feed on. Let them be what they want to be, I think keeping the "bratstvo" between the two people, if at all possible, is more important. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't, but Djukanovic has done enough damage to the relationship, we shouldn't let ourselves make things even worse.

I personally sometimes think it is better if they split because Montenegro have been acting like parasites, just using the union and blackmailing Serbia. But I am ready to give the others the benefit of the doubt once Djukanovic leaves. Of course, not at all costs, if things don't change, tell 'em to phuck off and end of story...

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post #15 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 13:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red star forever
Come on guys, wtf are you talking about? Montenegrians have every right to declare themselves as whatever they way. IMO, it is not about that. It is about saving the union because I believe that people in both republics would be better off and that the country as a whole would/could be stronger than two separate countries. Not to mention our domination of world sports...

But the kind of attitude where people say "Oh, they are 100% Serbs" or "We should wipe out Montenegro from the name and have Boze Pravde as the anthem" is exactly what Djukanovic and the likes feed on. Let them be what they want to be, I think keeping the "bratstvo" between the two people, if at all possible, is more important. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't, but Djukanovic has done enough damage to the relationship, we shouldn't let ourselves make things even worse.

I personally sometimes think it is better if they split because Montenegro have been acting like parasites, just using the union and blackmailing Serbia. But I am ready to give the others the benefit of the doubt once Djukanovic leaves. Of course, not at all costs, if things don't change, tell 'em to phuck off and end of story...
Thats true Djukanovic is feeding off stuff like this.
But know that Montenegrins are a shrinking minority in Montenegro. Ive seen a report on how many ppl called themselfves Serbs in 1991, back than it was like 9%. Now its somewhere around 45-50%. Its Tito who invented that identity, just to weaken the Serbs, like he did to Vojvodina and Kosovo.

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post #16 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 13:35
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The funny thing is that Serbia-Montenegro sounds perfectly underestimatable, like Trinidad-Tobago or Saudi-Arabia.

Maybe that will help us in WC 2006
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post #17 of 291 (permalink) Old December 2nd, 2005, 15:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PartizanBeograd
Thats Its Tito who invented that identity, just to weaken the Serbs, like he did to Vojvodina and Kosovo.

Bingo! Or can we forget Macedonia, people who last names were Petrovic, now are Petrovski? Someone mentioned Montenegero as a province? Don't you think, by having these provinces inside Serbia is just more trouble? I don't see provincens in Croatia, Slovenia, or Macedonia? Why should Serbia have provinces? It's one country-one people. As for the Union, it should be saved, however, the Montenegrans, or the Western Serbia should get a grip on reality. No economy, no infrastructure, they need Serbia more then in reality we need them. For Serbia, it's an outlet to the sea, and important shipping and commerce can come through there. Majority of Montenegrans would like to stay with Serbia. It's just the minority politicans, with some of the Muslim and Catholic factions down there who want to see a change. I don't think the whole state is that way. Njegosh, always said your a Serb first, Montenegran second.

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post #18 of 291 (permalink) Old December 6th, 2005, 01:15
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I always wondered what your guys reaction would be to the West coming in and basically carving up Kosovo away from Serbia.

If that did happen what would your reactions be? And what would the reaction of Beograd be? Considering there's more insight here, than in most 'reputable' media outlets I'd be interested to know.

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post #19 of 291 (permalink) Old December 6th, 2005, 01:45
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Ljubuski, the west has already carved Kosovo away from Serbia. In 1999. The people in power can at best hope to get a bit of it back, and get a good deal out of formally letting the rest go. That is the sad reality.

The people of the country are too tired and poor to worry about such issues. I'm only afraid that there are certain politicians in Belgrade who are resigned to Kosovo's fate, but don't want to be the ones to take on responsibility for signing Kosovo's independence or a partition, and would rather keep repeating the same tired line in denial, and then one the West grants Kosovo independence, proclaim it to be unjust occupation. And then the next government that would come in would just blame the previous for it, and that would be the end of that. That would be the worst-case scenario.
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post #20 of 291 (permalink) Old December 6th, 2005, 06:08 Thread Starter
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EU foreign policy chief to visit Belgrade for talks on Kosovo, Montenegro

BELGRADE, Serbia-Montenegro-The European Union's foreign policy chief was expected Monday in Belgrade for talks on both Kosovo's future status and Montenegro's planned independence referendum.



During a two-day visit to Serbia-Montenegro, Javier Solana was to meet Monday with top Belgrade officials, including federation President Svetozar Marovic, and then travel Tuesday to Kosovo for discussions with the province's ethnic Albanian leaders.



U.N.-mediated negotiations on Kosovo's future status are expected to begin in January. Although still officially a province of Serbia, Kosovo has been administered by the United Nations since a 1999 NATO bombing campaign halted the Serbian crackdown on ethnic Albanian separatists.



Belgrade and Kosovo's Serb minority want the province to remain within Serbia's borders, while the province's majority ethnic Albanians seek full independence.



EU officials have said a status settlement should respect rights of all Kosovo communities, saying the province cannot return to being directly ruled from Serbia nor be partitioned between Serbs and ethnic Albanians.



The EU is expected to play a key role in reaching a solution, and has appointed Austrian Balkan expert Stefan Lehne to assist U.N. envoy Martti Ahtisaari, a former Finnish president, in leading the status talks.



The bloc is also concerned about Montenegro, where the population is divided over the issue of independence from Serbia.



Montenegro has maintained a loose union with Serbia, after four other former Yugoslav states split from the former federation in early 1990s. But ties between the two have deteriorated, and Montenegro's leaders scheduled an independence referendum for the first half of 2006.



The EU has tried to talk Montenegro out of opting for secession, fearing it could trigger new Balkan tensions, and has warned that internationally accepted democratic standards must apply in the vote.

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