A Response to Greater Serbian Propaganda - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 71 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:06 Thread Starter
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A Response to Greater Serbian Propaganda

KNIN NOT IN THE VOJNA KRAJINA

Knin, like Benkovac, is over 50 kilometers from the historical
boundary of Vojna Krajina as the crow flies. 50 kilometres
may not seem a long distance in Canada, but on 19th century
European mountain tracks, where every square kilometer has
3000 years of history, distance is a relevant factor

A Response to Serbian
Propaganda

A propaganda campaign is spreading that Knin was in the Vojna
Krajina, and that by association the so-called-krajina created in
the early 1990s was part of the Vojna Krajina (Military Frontier).
Documented treaties in history show this propaganda to be a lie, a
lie which served as a pretext for starting a war of aggression
costing the deaths and displacement of hundreds of thousands of
people. Official condemnation of the lies about the
so-called-krajina should be
a non-negotiable condition set by Croatia during negotiations for
its EU membership.

Serbs in Croatia had to ethnically cleanse one-third of Croatia of
its Croats and other non-Serbs, and barricade major transportation
routes in Croatia (so-called log-revolution), before the fictitious

so-called-krajina within Croatia could be materialized.
Contemporaneous newspaper reports, and official census data over the
past two centuries verify that there is no factual basis to Serbian
claims of an historical right to Croatian territory.

In addition, an exaggerated Serbian presence in Croatia has been
claimed by alleging that most, or all of the Orthodox in Dalmatia
and Croatia have always been Serbian. But many European documents
contradict this claim. Indeed there have been many famous Croatian
Orthodox people in history as well as Croatian Orthodox churches, all documented. And European Statutes exist which refer to the
Vlachs in Croatia or the Morlachs in Dalmatia, not to Serbs.

Incredibly, on many internet reports and in many books the number of
Serbs who
allegedly left Croatia in 1995 varies from 40,000 to
600,000, depending upon the source. The fact is however that many of
the Orthodox had fled the Serbian-occupied territory of Croatia long
before 1995, and they were subsequently branded as traitors and
cowards by the Serbian regime in Belgrade.

The Serbian anti-historical claims about Croatian territory have
been concocted as part of a long-term revolutionary plan to
legitimize a Serbian presence there, in order to enlarge the Serbian
state. Today Serbian minority in Croatia are the most vocal of all
other minorities put together, even though their numbers throughout
Croatia in the most recent 2001 census is quite small in proportion
to their demands. Serbs had initially objected to being called a
minority because they
had
politically administered Croatia and the rest of the former
Yugoslavia through a totalitarian system, until its collapse along
with the collapse of the Berlin Wall. But as new conflict resolution
legislation in post cold-war Europe was being discussed, the Serbs
began to reformulate their demands within a minority framework just
as they had reformulated the Yugoslav constitution many times in
order to cater to re-servicing of former Yugoslavias international
debt.

The Ominous Treaty of Paris

Dalmatia and its hinterland have been the object of barter in
European treaties for centuries. In 1919 for example at the Treaty
of Paris in Versailles the Italians obtained parts of Croatia from
Istria throughout Dalmatia.I In 1995 the Dayton Accords became
officially known as the
Treaty of Paris, to be signed at the Elysee
Palace in France. Given the tragic consequences of Versailles for
Croatia, what legacy should Croats expect after the Dayton/Paris
Treaty?II Since 1995,
the administrators of the Dayton/Paris Treaty in Bosnia &
Herzegovina have given-in to Serbian intransigence at the expense of
Croatian peoples human rights. Fifteen years on, Serbs still do not
comply with Dayton in B & H, as Croats are unable to return to their
ancestral homes in peace, homes which now fall within the boundaries
of the newly created Republika Srpska a region formed by the ethnic
cleansing and slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
The reinforcement of Serbian intransigence in B & H has caused
Serbian intransigence to spread into
Croatia.

Serbian non-compliance with the Dayton/Paris Treaty in Bosnia is
heard of occasionally with reference to indicted war criminals
responsible for the Srebrenica massacre, etc., but how many people
know about Serbian ultranationalism in Croatia? For example, in
Croatia today Serbian provocation includes changing street signs,
and spreading graffiti which
says this is Serbia.III One can easily conclude therefore that like
the first Treaty of Paris in 1919, the 1995 Treaty of Paris has
created a legacy of instability for Croatian people.

Tragically Serbian fabrications are supported by foreigners who
inadvertently encourage contravention of international law. As part
of a very vocal pro-Serbian lobby around the world many books,
websites, and international
organisations have shown unquestioning
support of false historical claims. On some unofficial maps of
Croatia a non-existent region appears known as the
so-called-krajina, an alleged historical region which exists only in
the minds of Serbia and its foreign
allies.IV Unfortunately the UN Hague Tribunal indictments, many
NGOs, together with other official European institutions have
apparently integrated the unauthenticated Serbian version of
Croatian history into their documents and agendas.


Croatias Stolen History

Before analysing the so-called-krajina fabrication, it is essential
to understand that this propaganda is inextricably linked to the
historical theft of the history of the Morlacchi, or Vlach presence
in Dalmatia and Croatia. Up until the late 19th
century there had
been practically no Serbian churches in Dalmatia but there had been
many Greek Orthodox churches with mostly Croatian worshippers--many
of whom had become integrated with Morlacchi hinterland families. In one of many sources which allude to the true ethnicity of the
original Orthodox in Croatia, Larry Wolff in "Venice and the Slavs",
writes that The heterogeneous Orthodox society of Zadar included
Montenegrin officers and Sarajevo merchants and (others) from Corfu
and Crete (The Venetians) were concerned to reduce foreign influence
on Orthodox Dalmatians, including the Morlacchi The issue of the
Morlacchi in Dalmatia is well documented and over the coming months
I will analyse it in a separate article. Thus, Serbian propaganda
has re-written the history of the
Morlachi in Dalmatia, with false
claims that most of them were of Serbian background.

Until the feudalistic creation of the first Yugoslavia at Versailles
there had never been a strong Serbian presence in Dalmatia. Only
when Serbs ruled under a dictatorship and later under a totalitarian
communist system did the Knin regions ethnic balance begin to
change. This ethnic balance shift also occurred due to post WWII
immigration into Croatia of Serbs, or due to the conversion or
compliance of non-Serbian Orthodox for the purpose of their own
social
mobility or communist party membership. In communist Yugoslavia the
Serbian numbers in Croatia swelled again due to their staffing of
military garrisons, including for example, Benkovac and Knin. Its
very important to understand that its
because Serbs did NOT have
numbers in Lika in the late 20th century that they had to include
Knin municipalities in their so-called krajina territorial claims.
This led to the fabrication and spreading of the lie that Knin had
always been part of the Vojna Krajina.

Foreign-sics of Serbian Propaganda

Like Chinese whispers, the following examples show how Serbian
propaganda has reached the recent English language community, which
has also unfortunately spread into some tourist guides.

For example, relying on Silber & Little as a source in "The Death of
Yugoslavia", on the internet the Canadian RCMP Inspector Graham Muir
discussed his UN duty at Benkovac. Tragically, Muir has been fooled
by pro-Serbian propaganda: "(in Benkovac) 50 km west of Knin I
quickly came to understand that Vlade and his people were Serbs
living in Vojna Krajina, a region that hugged the western boundaries
of Bosnia-Herzegovina. The word
Krajina pronounced Cryeena--comes from the Serbo-Croatian word Kraj,
meaning end or edge. The name of the region means military frontier.
that it was the Austrians who created the Krajina and that Serbs
directly were ruled by imperial Vienna."ť VI

It is particularly unsettling for me as a Canadian to witness such
misinformation from a member of the RCMP. The history of the RCMP
(Royal Canadian Mounted Police) was the topic of my first school
speech in grade 6 in Toronto.
Because of my four-page speech, I experienced a youthful pride when
watching the world-famous RCMP Ride. In 2003 I followed-up my family

background in Ottawa with a visit to the old War Museum, the Chateau
Laurier, the Canadian Archives, and a tour”one of the highlights of
which for me was the RCMP headquarters.

Knin, like Benkovac, is over fifty kilometers from the historical
boundary of Vojna Krajina as the crow flies. Fifty kilometers may
not seem a long distance in Canada, but on 19th century European
mountain tracks, where every square kilometer has 3000 years of
history, distance is a relevant factor.

Before the UN arrived in 1992, Benkovac and predominantly Croatian
villages around it had been ethnically-cleansed and the villagers
slaughtered there under the command of Ratko Mladic (before he took
command of Serb forces in Bosnia). The Serbian war crimes of nearby
Skabrnje or Brusko have been dealt
with at the Hague Tribunal; but
other towns surrounding Benkovac which were cleansed by Serbs before
the UN arrival included Lisane-Ostrovicke, Medvida, Rodaljice,
Sopot, Polaca, Korlat, and Nadin. During 1991, every town with a
Croatian majority was ethnically cleansed all along major roads,
from the south of Knin to Korenica in northern Lika across the
border from Bihac.

About the 1991 Serbian attacks in the Benkovac vicinity a British
archeological team wrote:

"The shelling of the city (Zadar) by the Serbian Army, or JNA, was
shocking and distressing. News followed that many of the hilltop
monuments investigated by the project had been taken over as
military strongholds by the JNA; the damage caused to these sites by
the excavation of army trenches cannot be
underestimated. And the
massacre by the Army of an unknown number of Croats in the hamlet of
Nadin, where the project worked for three seasons, can only be the
cause of the deepest regret."VII

Misha Glenny (of BBC) in his book,"The Fall of Yugoslavia" blurs the
meaning of Vojna Krajina and Krajina, by using the terms
interchangeably and in reference to Knin, and says that the
minorities question should include territorial integrity.VIII

Glennys version of history was refuted by Ivo Banac, a Yale History
Professor, who writes: For example, the Knin area of northern
Dalmatia was never part of the Hapsburg Military Frontier, or, more
properly, of the Croatian-Slavonian Military Frontier, the
inhabitants of the latter were predominantly Croats (and) that the
migration of
Serbian patriarch Arsenije III Carnojevic to southern
Hungary had virtually nothing to so with the Serb presence in
Banija, Kordun, Lika and the Knin area ť IX

Similarly, even Tim Judah, in his book which has a pro-Serbian bias,
"The Serbs", made the point that Knin and Southern Dalmatia were never part of the Habsburg Vojna Krajina.X

It appears Croatian historical boundaries and timeframes are being
deliberately distorted to create a fictitious succession of Serbian
power which did not exist in history. Another example of this is in
US Ambassador Richard Holbrookes "To End a War" (1998).XI Holbrooke,
the architect of Dayton, inserts two maps which shows Krajina in
Croatia. In his monologue Holbrooke refers to Kijevo as being in
Krajina. Like Inspector Muir, Holbrooke also uses
Silber & Little
for a reference, that Serbs had lived in Krajina for generations.

Silber & Little, (of BBC) in "The Death of Yugoslavia" discuss
Krajina as the Serbo-Croatian word for Kraj or edge or end, or means
Vojna Krajina, or Military Frontier. After the meaning of the terms
Krajina and Vojna Krajina are discussed interchangeably, the book
then continues with, Knin is a lonely dust-bowl of a place in the
isolated barren wastelands of Croatias Dinaric mountains. Krajina
forms the hinterland of Croatias prosperous Adriatic coast, with
which it had traded and intermarried for centuries. Knin and Krajina
generally, were economically integral parts of southern Croatia. XII

In "A Paper House" Mark Thompson writes: "(Serbs) policed the vojna
granica or vojna krajina
(Military Frontier). A spartan tradition of
pride and independence was transmitted from father to son, just as
in the southern Habsburg borderlands, where Serb communities
protected Knin and the Likaâ (or) named after the vojna krajina
(Military Frontier) between the north Dalmatian coast and the
Bosnian border the historic territories of the Vojna Krajina were
proclaimed autonomous." .XIII Just as with Silber & Little, after
reading this text, Knin appears to have existed in Vojna Krajina,
and of course no authentic European documents or relevant maps could
be referred to.

In the book "War in the Balkans 91-93" there is a blur between the
historical meaning of Vojna Krajina and the more recently alleged
Krajina territory. Many glossy photographs and maps are
explained on
adjoining pages by text, that Croatia has strong Serbian
settlements, dating back to the 16th and 17th century and descended
from the farmer soldiers who were encouraged by the Habsburgs to
settle down in this region and which became known as the frontier
in Serb Krajina in reference to the Zadar or Knin region.XIV

The propaganda which originated in a few pro-Serbian books has
become widely spread over the internet. According to one internet >site, The so-called Military Krajina (Vojna Krajina) comprised
northern Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun, Banija and Bosnian Krajina (western
Bosnia).XV

Another report on the internet," Minorities in Croatia" shows a map
of the Republic of Croatia 2000 marking the main regions of Croatia
as Slavonia, Istria,
Krajina and Dalmatia.XVI

One more example from the internet is of Heather Field of Australian
Political Studies Association, discussing the Knin Krajina area and
the minority issue in Croatia as being problematic because of its
historical tradition of not being under Croat or Zagreb control from
when they had acted as the frontier military force and defence of
the Austro-Hungarian
empire XVII

Instead of referring to the official UNPA Sectors, the Hague
indictments constantly refer to the unrecognized Krajina region of
Croatia instead of Croatia.XVIII It would seem that Krajina has been
recognized in many international circles including the Hague, even
though it was not recognized by the UN. In addition even the OSCE
(Org. for Security & Cooperation in Europe) talks in
Europe rejected
proposals to link minority rights with territorial demands in 1991.

Croatias Territorial Integrity

If the Hague indictments do not use accepted international terms how then can one expect others to do so? The issue of territorial
integrity and sovereignty should be a Croatian condition for EU
entry, just as Turkey and other countries have their own set of
counter-conditions.

Croatias historical territory around Knin has been documented in
treaties by the Habsburgs, the Ottomans, and the Venetians, just to
name a few. For example, several stages of Venetian occupation which
rivalled Ottoman incursions over the centuries around the Knin
region have been well documented. For centuries Knin has always been
an integral part of Croatian history, not
Serbian history. Even when
under the Ottoman Empire, Knin was in Turkish Croatia (as designated
by many official contemporaneous mapmakers). Later when Knin and the
Dalmatian hinterland was occupied by Venice the majority of the
inhabitants there were Croats with whom most of the Morlacchi became
assimilated as either Orthodox or Catholics.

In their official capacity Croatian government representatives must
articulate in clear terms that they expect their territory
and history to be respected, before Croatia enters the EU.

These are just a few of the Lies greater Serbian dreamers have come up with over the last 200 years. Of course there are many more and I will present them whenever I can. Funny as well how some members of the Serbian board here use the same lies/propaganda to defend their nations assualt on Croatians/Bosnian Muslims/Albanians etc... esspecially during the war years of 1991-1999.
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post #2 of 71 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:59
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oh no, not the 3752th time a thread of this kind
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post #3 of 71 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 23:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanyi
oh no, not the 3752th time a thread of this kind

He is quite repetitive, isn't he...

Anyway, Knin was definitely in Vojna Krajina. :thmbup:

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post #4 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 04:21
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Look!
CT is trying to say something! But I can't see what it is - since he's on my ignore list. And I like it that way. So don't expect me in this one, boys.
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post #5 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 04:51 Thread Starter
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Andrija and rsf must respond to my hard hitting posts by dodging the real issue and just making of themselves...look
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post #6 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 05:09
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Andrija, dude, it works!! :thmbup:

From now on, I am going to have a fool-free XT experience..

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post #7 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 16:29 Thread Starter
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From now on, I am going to have a fool-free XT experience
What, you're gonna ban yourself?
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post #8 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 19:32
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Aw, I can't believe it, this is just brilliant...Long live "Ignore"! :thmbup:

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post #9 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 19:35
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The madness never stops with you guys does it?
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post #10 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 19:56
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A hell of a lot of British and Americans seem to have recently taken Serbian citizenship, judging by the names of the 'Serbians' cited as distributors of propaganda.
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post #11 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 21:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red star forever
Aw, I can't believe it, this is just brilliant...Long live "Ignore"! :thmbup:
it's great isn't it

A big to the developers of vBulletin...

I recommend the use of this feature extensively.

Last edited by Andrija PFC; November 10th, 2005 at 21:54.
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post #12 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 21:45 Thread Starter
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Wow I never knew ignoring constituted in replying?

Well either way it's good to see that you have given up trying to defend your Greater Serbia...at least for now. Serbian krajina in Croatia and in BiH never existed, it's a tough pill to swallow
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post #13 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 22:36
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Complexes showing again.

Why don't you just dedicate your whole life to it Tommy. Instead of being on here, you could just write books about it...I'm sure you'll find some mental patient who cares

S R B
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post #14 of 71 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2005, 22:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
it's great isn't it

A big to the developers of vBulletin...

I recommend the use of this feature extensively.

After discovering it, I'm ready to do those "how Ignore has changed my Internet experience" commercials.
Miha, for a shyte-free XT, use Ignore. :thmbup:

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post #15 of 71 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2005, 00:34
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CroatTommy, keep up the great posts as usual.

Funny, how they "ignore" you yet keep popping up in the thread you started...

Little andrea put me on his "ignore" list as well. I am honoured.




To all those slaughtered in the sick pursuit of greater serbia, rest in peace. :frownani:

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post #16 of 71 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2005, 00:40
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Originally Posted by Ante
CroatTommy, keep up the great posts as usual.

Funny, how they "ignore" you yet keep popping up in the thread you started...

Little andrea put me on his "ignore" list as well. I am honoured.




To all those slaughtered in the sick pursuit of greater serbia, rest in peace. :frownani:

That's not nice, especially not against your Orthodox brothers.

A useful vBulletin feature would be automatic detection and ignoring of shyte-stirrers. Probably not easy to implement, but useful nevertheless. It would save shyte slipping through eventually as in the case of our Orthodox brother Ante.

The truth about Sinisa Mihajlovic and his destruction of the Serbian NT

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post #17 of 71 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2005, 01:16
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rsf why did you quote Ante's post!? You're degrading my internet experience after all the lengths I went to to make it better.

This is not regular!!!! STOP IT!!!!111
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post #18 of 71 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2005, 01:22
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Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
rsf why did you quote Ante's post!? You're degrading my internet experience after all the lengths I went to to make it better.

This is not regular!!!! STOP IT!!!!111

Sorry, dude..But now that you mentioned it, I think that is another useful feature for future versions of the software - ignores should apply to quotes as well.
I think it's a great idea, and would save you and the rest of us from occasional, unwanted shyte-leaking...:thmbup:

ccccccccccccc

The truth about Sinisa Mihajlovic and his destruction of the Serbian NT

Crvena zvezda - The Greatest EE Club of all time

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Demandred: First, I just have to say the Red Star fans were absolutely amazing, incredible atmosphere
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post #19 of 71 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2005, 01:42
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You're right. :thmbup:

But forget that now - since this is an empty thread of sorts, what should we do?

Let's party!

Igra rock 'n' roll cela Jugoslavija...





(XT forum rules compliance: that thing up there says "all of Yugoslavia is rockin'")
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post #20 of 71 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2005, 01:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
You're right. :thmbup:

But forget that now - since this is an empty thread of sorts, what should we do?

Let's party!

Igra rock 'n' roll cela Jugoslavija...





(XT forum rules compliance: that thing up there says "all of Yugoslavia is rockin'")

I thought you've ignored this thread and you don't have a clue whats going in this thread? CT might might be praising your amazing intellect. Don't be jumping to conclusions

Interesting read though.
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