Blair Defeated! - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 17:52 Thread Starter
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Blair Defeated!

Probably the two sweetest words in the English language. For the first time ever, Tony Blair's government has lost a vote in the House of Commons. Yippee. This is the first Commons defeat in 11 years, and only the fifth in 25 years (the other four all being under John Major; two of them were on Maastricht).

His attempt to lock up anyone that looked slightly dodgy, for as long as 90 days, was defeated by a large majority: 322 votes to 291. An amendment, allowing for a detention period of 28 days, was passed by a similar margin in favour. The government argued that, as the police wanted the power to lock up suspected terrorists, they were obliged to deliver them. Funny, given that, time and again, the police's (more reasonable) demands are rejected on the grounds of human rights or accountability.

If a Motion of No Confidence is tabled, the vote would almost certainly come out in favour of the government, but it would also be close. All of the opposition MPs would vote against the government; account for Sinn Fein, that makes his majority 71. Then again, more than a few Labour backbenchers would vote against Blair, too (seeing the lack of Conservative leadership as leaving a window for a Brown election victory). If the government majority is reduced to fewer than 20 MPs, that should be his cue to exit, even if the arithmetic says otherwise (as with Thatcher in the internal party vote).

There'll be celebrations in the streets of Bradford and Bethnal Green (and pretty much everywhere else) tonight.

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post #2 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 17:58
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Bastin this is a great result, but can I ask why are you vehemently opposed to Blair?? He is the most conservative Labour PM in history. And he is getting more conservative and closer to free-market policy now that he is that he is a "lame duck" PM in the twighlight of his career.
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post #3 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 18:07 Thread Starter
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Because he's an arsehole. I'll repeat: Yippee!

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacìni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
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post #4 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 18:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
Because he's an arsehole. I'll repeat: Yippee!
Hey get more specific, I want to know your reasons for hating Blair. I cannot understand conservatives that praise Thatcher and hate Blair. His is her natural heir, is it tribal??

I am talking about people like Bruce Anderson and Richard Littlejohn
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post #5 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 18:32 Thread Starter
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I can't understand why people call Blair a Thatcherite. New Labour is NOT a contination of Conservative government. Between 1979 and 1997, the public sector's share of GDP fell from 45% to 37%. Since 1997, it has increased from 37% to 43%. That is to say, New Labour is undoing Thatcher's legacy of lower taxation and a more streamlined public sector.

Meanwhile, the education system is not improving; crime levels and perception of crime are increasing; the NHS kills 39,000 people a year through incompetence; our armed forces are dwindling in size and in calibre; integration into Europe has increased, despite public opposition; the immigration and asylum systems are failed wrecks; the UK is being broken up by devolution; not enough new power stations have been commissioned; FDI and investment in R&D have collapsed in relative terms; household debt has soared; and everything else is miserable, too.

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacìni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "

Last edited by Bastin; November 9th, 2005 at 18:44.
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post #6 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 18:39
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This is the best moment in British politics in living memory.
322 British and Irish MPs in shock display of courage :eekani: Well done every one of 'em.
The days of the slimy, bootlicking, mincing, stammering, fake-sincerity-oozing, pig-shagging His Tonyness are numbered.
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post #7 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 18:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
Meanwhile, the education system is not improving.
That is deliberate. No-one educated would ever vote for such a dipstick.
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post #8 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 18:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila_the_Nun
That is deliberate. No-one educated would ever vote for such a dipstick.
True.
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post #9 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 19:36
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wow

never knew blair was so hated....though the ppl loved him and re-elected him in landslides....

what happened? apart from iraq

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post #10 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:06
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Landslide? Only due to Britain's inadequate electoral system, which allows a party with 36% of the popular vote to take absolute majority in parliament.
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post #11 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:08
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Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
allows a party with 36% of the popular vote to take absolute majority in parliament.
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post #12 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
Landslide? Only due to Britain's inadequate electoral system, which allows a party with 36% of the popular vote to take absolute majority in parliament.
Uh oh. I hear Bastin and Attila coming a running down the hall now...
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post #13 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
Landslide? Only due to Britain's inadequate electoral system, which allows a party with 36% of the popular vote to take absolute majority in parliament.
Yep. I believe Blair polled the lowest vote for an election winner in over a century (was it the lowest share ever?), and it was 36% of not much (Bastin will probably know the turn-out); happily, I scarpered back to Moscow on the day of the election.
Suffice to say, Blair has always been despised by a majority of the population, but I believe 75-80% of over-18s did not vote Labour at the last election.

Edit: the electoral system is good in that it is more likely to produce a clear winner, guarding against 'government by committee' which is such a disaster in Euro-proportional-representation-land. But when the clear winner is a pathetic little pipsqueak like Blair it does make us nostalgic for the stick-a-red-hot-poker-up-their-arse days of politics.
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post #14 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:22
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Quote:
Edit: the electoral system is good in that it is more likely to produce a clear winner,
Granted. But the way to prevent someone with 30% of the vote to take 60% of the seats would be to have 2nd-round voting, which can get a little sticky if you have 600 ridings.

Still, having a system where, if there are for example 10 parties, one can theoretically take all the seats in parliament with 15% of the vote, is disqueting.
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post #15 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 20:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrija PFC
Granted. But the way to prevent someone with 30% of the vote to take 60% of the seats would be to have 2nd-round voting, which can get a little sticky if you have 600 ridings.

Still, having a system where, if there are for example 10 parties, one can theoretically take all the seats in parliament with 15% of the vote, is disqueting.
As Winston Churchill said, the UK model is the worst political system there is - apart from all the others.
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post #16 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 22:19
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He went really low saying "I just hope you don't all regret this".

Interestingly I have the oppurtunity to go to a speech by Gordon Brown. In light of this, it could be an interesting Q&A session. Think I should go?
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post #17 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 22:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One
He went really low saying "I just hope you don't all regret this".

Interestingly I have the oppurtunity to go to a speech by Gordon Brown. In light of this, it could be an interesting Q&A session. Think I should go?
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post #18 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 22:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One
He went really low saying "I just hope you don't all regret this".

Interestingly I have the oppurtunity to go to a speech by Gordon Brown. In light of this, it could be an interesting Q&A session. Think I should go?
Could you pose him this question:
"Mr Brown, how do you reconcile your desire to be perceived as having been a careful custodian overlooking fiscal policy while simultaneously tolerating an unprecented rise in the public sector, with the inevitable increase in the burden on the taxpayer - you fat, slobbering, Scottish tosser?"
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post #19 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 22:41
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Originally Posted by Attila_the_Nun
Could you pose him this question:
"Mr Brown, how do you reconcile your desire to be perceived as having been a careful custodian overlooking fiscal policy while simultaneously tolerating an unprecented rise in the public sector, with the inevitable increase in the burden on the taxpayer - you fat, slobbering, Scottish tosser?"
How do you know when to use "tosser" as opposed to "W*nker" ?

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post #20 of 100 (permalink) Old November 9th, 2005, 23:39
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Originally Posted by Humbird
How do you know when to use "tosser" as opposed to "W*nker" ?
The two are interchangeable. Like England NT goalkeepers it doesn't matter which one you choose.
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