What the hell is going on?? [riots in Paris] - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 16:19 Thread Starter
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What the hell is going on?? [riots in Paris]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4401670.stm

This has been going on for a few weeks now, started with a couple of fires in the city a couple of months ago as I recall. I haven't been following the developments, but now it seems like a persistent phenomenon. Anyone care to shed some light on this? What's the back story here?

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post #2 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:02
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The riots in Paris' suburbs aren't that uncommon. They are the result of poverty, unemployement,... and police racism. In this case 2 young immigrants (who hadn't done anything wrong btw) ran away from another police control and got electrocted in their hiding place. As a result their friends took the streets and started rioting.

It had the usual cat-and-mouse game between police and rioters (although a teargass granate fired by the police ending up in as mosque didn't exactly calm things down), but then the minister of interior affaires, Sarkozy, felt it was time to start his presidential election campaign. He went to visit and made some totally unacceptable claims about scum and how the streets should be swept clean (you know the typical bs that does well with a big part of the electorat). This brilliant intervention had the predictable result that youngsters in other suburbs than Clichy-sous-bois started rioting as well.

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post #3 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:04
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http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...iot051103.html

I saw an interview yesterday of a guy who lived in the affected areas and he said the main reason is poverty. He said people are tired of being hungry, of not having jobs, in general of not being able to live like the rest of the French.

But that was only one guy and I haven't paid much attention to it either.
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post #4 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVO
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...iot051103.html

I saw an interview yesterday of a guy who lived in the affected areas and he said the main reason is poverty. He said people are tired of being hungry, of not having jobs, in general of not being able to live like the rest of the French.

But that was only one guy and I haven't paid much attention to it either.
Are these people French citizens? If you are born in France are you automatically a citizen? Do you have to take a Frenchness test like in the UK?

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Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
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post #5 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:40
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I don't know, maybe they come from former colonies in which case the government should change their policy or they won't have a national team anymore
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post #6 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:51
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Uh huh... and how is rioting going to put an end to the poverty? Do they expect the government to create jobs out of thin air for them? Or do they believe the government owes it to them to take care of them?
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post #7 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:54
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Originally Posted by Tim
Uh huh... and how is rioting going to put an end to the poverty? Do they expect the government to create jobs out of thin air for them? Or do they believe the government owes it to them to take care of them?
The rioters were first-year Economics undergraduates, and all fell for the broken window fallacy.

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post #8 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 17:56
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post #9 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 18:05
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Originally Posted by Tim
Uh huh... and how is rioting going to put an end to the poverty? Do they expect the government to create jobs out of thin air for them? Or do they believe the government owes it to them to take care of them?
rioting is not a logical, measured response to poverty. it is an emotional response, an expression of frustration.

if those people could help themselves they wouldnt riot.

Europe in general has always had the kind of immmigration policy that promotes this kind of thing- a cultural resistance to assimilation, and simply put- poor immigration policies.

Its ridiculous to see immigrants allowed into france by france, and then subsequently heap scorn on the same country. Is it wrong on the part of the french or the immigrants...who knows.

Our resident frenchie Mali should come in and educate us.




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post #10 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 18:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gOD
The riots in Paris' suburbs aren't that uncommon. They are the result of poverty, unemployement,... and police racism. In this case 2 young immigrants (who hadn't done anything wrong btw) ran away from another police control and got electrocted in their hiding place. As a result their friends took the streets and started rioting.
So the French Police are at fault for pursuing criminals, because two onlooking non-criminals were so stupid they ran into an electrical substation and were electrocuted.
I know the French Police like to give a good kicking to North Africans but it's nearly 40 years since they would handcuff them and chuck them in the Siene to drown, so it is surely the two deceased and their dumb friends who are the ones guilty of over-reacting.
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post #11 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 18:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila_the_Nun
So the French Police are at fault for pursuing criminals, because two onlooking non-criminals were so stupid they ran into an electrical substation and were electrocuted.
I know the French Police like to give a good kicking to North Africans but it's nearly 40 years since they would handcuff them and chuck them in the Siene to drown, so it is surely the two deceased and their dumb friends who are the ones guilty of over-reacting.
No, no, it's clearly the fault of the French police for not pleading with the fleeing youths not to hide anywhere where they could electrocute themselves.
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post #12 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 18:38
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No, no, it's clearly the fault of the French police for not pleading with the fleeing youths not to hide anywhere where they could electrocute themselves.
BWAHAHA!
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post #13 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 18:40
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Are these people French citizens? If you are born in France are you automatically a citizen? Do you have to take a Frenchness test like in the UK?
Young teenagers who are the children of Immigrants; however, they are French citizens.

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post #14 of 375 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2005, 18:46
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I think the two boys were the last straw..It is not that the rioters are rioting because of these kids, it is frustration as Mr.Bean says. I think that life in those banlieues is not always that pleasant and from what I've heard, the govt. is not doing anything for those suburbs at all. When Sarkozy comes on the tv to call all those people scum, it is not very smart if you ask me.

I think the French don't have a good policy surrounding immigrants. You see this ghetto-forming in French cities and we've seen the fires in the 'houses' of the African refugees in Paris too.

The rioting is wrong, but the underlying cause might not be that strange to look at if you ask me.

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post #15 of 375 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2005, 02:51
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It's the Police's fault for trying to prevent the illogically sound unfortunates from burning down their own communities.

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post #16 of 375 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2005, 03:22
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I'm always baffled by "unemployed immigrants" myself. The reason immigrants come to a country is to make a better life for themselves. Thus, they work. That's what hardworking immigrants do, and I believe most immigrants are of that variety. They take a job, any job, and hopefully if they have the skills and education they advance up to a point which allows them to use most of all of those skills & education. If you've got no skills & education, well then you're stuck sweeping the streets or selling hotdogs on the street - but at least you give an opportunity to your children.

Now, if you've immigrated to a country and can't find work - any work - you should not have immigrated. People who come into a country to suck its welfare service ad aeternum with no intent of finding work (and I know such cases) should be deported.

On the other hand, if a country is letting in more immigrants than there are jobs for them to fill, then there is something terribly wrong with that country's immigration policy. Immigration policy is a science. Immigration is there to fulfil a particular need. I should think that Euro bureacrats of all people should have realised that. You don't just open the floodgates to random immigrants from wherever.
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post #17 of 375 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2005, 03:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bean
rioting is not a logical, measured response to poverty. it is an emotional response, an expression of frustration.

if those people could help themselves they wouldnt riot.
If the rioters were to spend about 5 percent of the effort it takes to being victims of society and another tenth of the effort it takes to riot and other such like selfdestructive efforts and rather, turn that into efforts of contribution to that same society they would in fact help themselves a great deal out of poverty, misery and angst.

Society doesn't owe you shit. It is you who owe society.

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post #18 of 375 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2005, 03:39
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God helps those who help themselves... and you don't even need to be religious to appreciate that saying.
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post #19 of 375 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2005, 04:01
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I'm always baffled by "unemployed immigrants" myself. The reason immigrants come to a country is to make a better life for themselves. Thus, they work. That's what hardworking immigrants do, and I believe most immigrants are of that variety. They take a job, any job, and hopefully if they have the skills and education they advance up to a point which allows them to use most of all of those skills & education. If you've got no skills & education, well then you're stuck sweeping the streets or selling hotdogs on the street - but at least you give an opportunity to your children.

Now, if you've immigrated to a country and can't find work - any work - you should not have immigrated. People who come into a country to suck its welfare service ad aeternum with no intent of finding work (and I know such cases) should be deported.

On the other hand, if a country is letting in more immigrants than there are jobs for them to fill, then there is something terribly wrong with that country's immigration policy. Immigration policy is a science. Immigration is there to fulfil a particular need. I should think that Euro bureacrats of all people should have realised that. You don't just open the floodgates to random immigrants from wherever.
I have an even better question? If their so angry at the French for being poor and therefore begin to riot. Why didn't they start rioting in their country of origin where they were even poorer and even more oppressed?
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post #20 of 375 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2005, 04:07
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All that rage could have been put to good use - I'm sure shelters could use more volunteers, streets in need of cleaning, not to mention poodle shit all over the sidewalks. I know I could use a caddie whenever I go hit 18 holes, I'm sure there's a strong young cueca in that mass of rioters able to carry my golf clubs...

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