The origin of aids - Xtratime Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 03:20 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
The origin of aids

I saw the documentary with the same name

and since im arguing about big pharma with bastin and cro batman i remembered this

basically a few scientists where in a race to find the polio cure and one of them a polish american, was using a method that his rival told him was unsafe and had dangerous consequences.....and voila, the HIV virus appeared as the blood of chimps was mixed up with some human blood, and the mutation resluted in aids.

that would not ahve been a problem had his backer not arranged with a corrupt african govt(not sure which country anymore) to test the drug on the local popluace (polio) this was ofcourse mandatory testing....and as such the cure that was supposed to cure one disease just caused a monster that is bigger then polio ever could be.

to this day the scientist denies the claims that he is responsible, as does the scientific community despite the first places of aids being in the same area by the same people who were samples for drugs, despite that the native workers and order papers back the claims that chimps were used (denied by the pharma and scientist) even a former high level scientist there admits to it now.


so here is my point....an example of a pharma first testing drugs on people who are deemed expendable, them not actually caring about human life (the one which cannot afford thier blockbusters), and getting caught in a frenzy to put the next big thing on the market that they cut corners and make mistakes....that jsut lead to more dangerous diseases...


who knows what the scourge of the 21st century will be, and when we will find out it exists....

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 09:41
Star Player
 
Alarich's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2001
Location: Perth, Australia
Teams: Hong Kong, Japan, Celtic
Posts: 3,277
oh well shit happens, the world we live in is fcuked up what did u expect
people in third world countries are always being exploited in one way or another, at the end of the day it all comes down to money & power

The Christmas Holidays
"Money is tight, times are hard, here's your @#$/& Christmas card!!!"

"The holidays are a great time to be with family. Of course, your family
won't be with you, since I'm taking the kids and moving in with my sister,
you cheating bastard!!!"
Alarich is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 10:14
Xtratime Allstar
World Class Player
 
nasty nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12 1999
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Teams: Gli Azzurri and AC Milan.
Posts: 9,820
http://www.avert.org/origins.htm


Here's a few diffrent Aids theories. I still go for the "Hunter Theory". Which seems to be the most likely one.

"I think my greatest ambition in life is to pass on to others what I know"

"May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine"

"The best revenge is massive success"

Frank Sinatra

"There are as many opinions as there are experts"

Franklin Delano Roosevelt
nasty nick is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 19:43
World Class Player
World Class Player
 
Bastin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, the UK
Teams: Arsenal, Watford, UK NTs, and dozens more.
Posts: 7,673
This is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. The Polio vaccine was discovered in 1954. The first documented suspected AIDS case occurred in 1959. Why were the scientists rushing to discover the cure for a disease that had already been cured?

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacžni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd Łber-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
Bastin is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 19:55
BANNED!
Xtratime Legend
 
Liternit's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02 2003
Location: S„o Paulo
Teams: Tricolor Paulista
Posts: 23,575
Maybe it took 5 years for the virus to infect a human, or maybe 1959 was only the first documented case, other cases could have happened with people assuming to be other diseases.
Liternit is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 20:08 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
bastin cause there were several cures for polio....and they were competing for the rights to administer it in publis schools in the USA...they wanted the best one...

and it takes time for a virus to actually adapt, form and show symptoms and be understood, that this is infact something new

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 20:33
World Class Player
World Class Player
 
Bastin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, the UK
Teams: Arsenal, Watford, UK NTs, and dozens more.
Posts: 7,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav
bastin cause there were several cures for polio....and they were competing for the rights to administer it in publis schools in the USA...they wanted the best one...
There have only ever been two cures for Polio. One cured it, but didn't block the disease's transmission. The other (developed by Albert Sabin, the Pole to which you refer) did both. However, even the later one was developed in 1957, two years before the first ever AIDS case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liternit
Maybe it took 5 years for the virus to infect a human, or maybe 1959 was only the first documented case, other cases could have happened with people assuming to be other diseases.
People assumed the 1959 case to be another disease, too. That diagnosis was retrospective (suspected in 1988, confirmed in 1999), as all diagnoses were for almost two decades. The first case in which a doctor diagnosed AIDS to be an entirely new virus was in 1966, and the first case in which a doctor recognised any symptoms of the epidemic occurred in 1981 ("Year Zero" in AIDS terms).

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacžni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd Łber-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
Bastin is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 20:35
Star Player
 
Gauchito's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2001
Location: Few miles East to Benghazi
Teams: Milan
Posts: 3,273
Here is the theory explanation from the site that nasty nick stated above (in case you didn't bothered to read that)


Some other rather controversial theories have contended that HIV was transferred iatrogenically (i.e. via medical experiments). One particularly well-publicised idea is that polio vaccines played a role in the transfer.

In his book, The River, the journalist Edward Hooper suggested that HIV could be traced to the testing of an oral polio vaccine called Chat, given to about a million people in the Belgian Congo , Ruanda and Urundi in the late 1950s. To be reproduced, live polio vaccine needs to be cultivated in living tissue, and Hooper's belief is that Chat was grown in kidney cells taken from local chimps infected with SIVcmz. This, he claims, would have resulted in the contamination of the vaccine with chimp SIV, and a large number of people subsequently becoming infected with HIV-1.

However, in February 2000 the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia (one of the original places that developed the Chat vaccine) announced that it had discovered in its stores a phial of polio vaccine that had been used as part of the program. The vaccine was subsequently analysed and in April 2001 it was announced4 that no trace had been found of either HIV or chimpanzee SIV. A second analysis5 confirmed that only macaque monkey kidney cells, which cannot be infected with SIV or HIV, were used to make Chat. While this is just one phial of many, most have taken its existence to mean that the OPV vaccine theory is not possible.

The fact that the OPV theory accounts for just one (group M) of several different groups of HIV also suggests that transferral must have happened in other ways too.

The final element that suggests that the OPV theory is not credible as the sole method of transmission is the argument that HIV existed in humans before the vaccine trials were ever carried out. More about when HIV came into being can be found below.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." :smileani:
Gauchito is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 20:41 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
bastin

im just saying what the documentary showed...even a famous english biologist, who was said to be the best brain in the business since darwin agreed, he died on a trip to the congo trying to prove that

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 23:01
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Good God, this kind of "documented" theory makes me weary.
What this thread proves is that you can support about anything if you are willing to do the Google.
If you honestly believe that Santa is gay, walla, you can find sixteen articles in 7 different languages to prove your point. Throw in Rudolph's alcohol problem, hence the reason for the red nose, and the nunber climbs by 11 additional, 3 of them even have streaming video.

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 23:21 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
hawki

this was a big documentary shown at a film festival with UN backing....its not some bullshit you find on google


'THE ORIGINS OF AIDS

directed by Peter Chappell and Cathťrine Peix

91 MINS

Startling in its thesis, compelling in its argument and chilling in its measured presentation, this award-winning documentary by Peter Chappell and Catherine Peix delves into the possible origins of AIDS in the jungles of Zaire (formerly the Belgian Congo). Investigating a theory detailed in journalist Edward Hooper's controversial book The River, THE ORIGINS OF AIDS looks into the possibility that the deadliest disease known to mankind came as a result of a risky, mass inoculation of an experimental polio vaccine during the late 1950s.

This documentary explores a controversial theory. Sundance Channel presents this documentary as a theory, not as a factual account.'


http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmart.../evidence.html

can answer more questions...

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 23:26 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
The other (developed by Albert Sabin, the Pole to which you refer) did both.
i missed this....clearly u did no understand me

i am talking about Hilary Koprowski and his work in the belgian congo

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old October 6th, 2005, 02:18
Premier Player
 
Faith Knopfler's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2004
Teams: La Vecchia Signora
Posts: 1,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
This is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. The Polio vaccine was discovered in 1954. The first documented suspected AIDS case occurred in 1959.
This argument is flawed. Clearly you have mistaken HIV with AIDS.

A subject can be infected with HIV but it can take up to 15 years for AIDS to appear. Although, I have seen a number of patients that have been infected with the virus for over 20 years without the slightest symptoms of AIDS apart from the occasional fever. The pathophysiology behind this is that AIDS appears when the virus (HIV) has attached itself to most of the T-Lymphocytes to gain entry into the cells, thereby, suppressing the immune system. Hence, AIDS manifests itself early in some individuals and late in others.

Galbraith
Faith Knopfler is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old October 6th, 2005, 14:35
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav
hawki

this was a big documentary shown at a film festival with UN backing....its not some bullshit you find on google


'THE ORIGINS OF AIDS

directed by Peter Chappell and Cathťrine Peix

91 MINS

Startling in its thesis, compelling in its argument and chilling in its measured presentation, this award-winning documentary by Peter Chappell and Catherine Peix delves into the possible origins of AIDS in the jungles of Zaire (formerly the Belgian Congo). Investigating a theory detailed in journalist Edward Hooper's controversial book The River, THE ORIGINS OF AIDS looks into the possibility that the deadliest disease known to mankind came as a result of a risky, mass inoculation of an experimental polio vaccine during the late 1950s.

This documentary explores a controversial theory. Sundance Channel presents this documentary as a theory, not as a factual account.'


http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmart.../evidence.html

can answer more questions...
That is precisely my point Lav!! Just because someone does a film on it hardly makes it fact.
Hell, there are hundereds of films/documentaries on "Area 51" or I've even seen one of how Hitler didn't die in the bunker 1945 and lived out the rest of his life in South America. That didn't make it so ...

You have to use your head, use some common sense, do your research and try to make an intellegent decision accordingly. Hell, if you don't think that there are documentaries existing for the sole purpose of promoting some political or social point of view, and you accept every documenary as fact, then you are indeed setting yourself up for one big roller coster ride.

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old October 6th, 2005, 17:42 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
im not saying its fact

i am saying that here is an example of a pharma company not really caring about the effects of a drug they are making, or the methods they are using

and i would call this thoery to be preety sound and the only logical explanation, if you actually read the link i posted, the evidence is overwhelming, and the scientific community is just covering up this because they would end up being responsible for the biggest killer out there.

im not saying they did it on purpose, but it was a side effect of thier work.

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old October 6th, 2005, 22:03
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav
im not saying its fact

i am saying that here is an example of a pharma company not really caring about the effects of a drug they are making, or the methods they are using

and i would call this thoery to be preety sound and the only logical explanation, if you actually read the link i posted, the evidence is overwhelming, and the scientific community is just covering up this because they would end up being responsible for the biggest killer out there.

im not saying they did it on purpose, but it was a side effect of thier work.
Well, Nick's article dispells that theory and casts a lot of doubt ... which makes my point. If you are going to make a statement like: "Pharma company not really caring about the effects of a drug they are making, or the methods they are using." with conjecture and theory and not fact, then your statement is conjecture and theory and not fact.

So again, you are allowed your opinion and of course it will be respected as such. All I'm saying is that asserting your opinion as fact is another thing.

Cheers!!

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2005, 06:00 Thread Starter
Lav
Legend
 
Lav's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2000
Location: Miami
Teams: Hrvatska, A.C. Milan, Dinamo
Posts: 13,202
ok

but did u read the link...

the case against it, and read both sides, and then honestly tell me that they didnt **** up and cause aids....it wouldnt kill ya or make u less capitalistic

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a manís soul and faith
Lav is offline  
post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2005, 14:09
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav
ok

but did u read the link...

the case against it, and read both sides, and then honestly tell me that they didnt **** up and cause aids....it wouldnt kill ya or make u less capitalistic
Of course I did Lav. I can honestly tell you that there's not enough evidence to be sure of anything and again, that's my point. We can discuss that theory and the 17 other origin theories and have a good discussion accordingly. What I am trying to say here is that making assertions about the Pharm industry based on this type of information, is unfair and not responsible.

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2005, 19:54
Star Player
 
Alarich's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2001
Location: Perth, Australia
Teams: Hong Kong, Japan, Celtic
Posts: 3,277
i don't know bout this stuff about Aids, but personally i think any kind of big global corporate company Pharmaceutical or not, only cares about the bottom line, maybe with the exception of a few, i mean at the end of the day their goal is to maximise profit, lower cost & drive out their competition, and if it means cutting corners or violating the environment, than so be it, cause there's nothing more important than keeping those shareholders happy

and yes, i also formed that opinion after watching numerous documentary, one could even say i've been brain-washed, but i mean when was the last time u saw a documentary, news article or TV segment that had anything positive to say bout these global corporate company

The Christmas Holidays
"Money is tight, times are hard, here's your @#$/& Christmas card!!!"

"The holidays are a great time to be with family. Of course, your family
won't be with you, since I'm taking the kids and moving in with my sister,
you cheating bastard!!!"
Alarich is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome