1830 plan to partition Belgium - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 09:21 Thread Starter
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1830 plan to partition Belgium

Quite interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talleyr...an_for_Belgium
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 20:15
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It's not particularly interesting, at all. France's great historical ambition is to reach its 'natural frontiers' on the West bank of the Rhine. That it sought to annex Belgium (as it had from the Burgundians and from the United Provinces), is no surprise.

More than that, the article is fundamentally wrong in numerous places. For starters, the one and only Great Power at the time, the United Kingdom, supported the Belgian succession. That's why the UK rejected Talleyrand's plans, the (1839) agreement establishing Belgian independence was signed in London, and the UK forced the five other signatories to recognise Belgium's perpetual neutrality. It's because of the last result that the UK fought in the First World War.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 23:31 Thread Starter
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Is the article right when it says that "the principal aim of most of the leaders of the insurgents seems to have been the reunion of Belgium to France"? I didn't know that.

Anyway, about this partition plan, I don't think the Walloons in Eastern Belgium would have liked living under Prussia (who did?) and I'm not sure if the Flemish in North Belgium would have wanted to continue to live under the Dutch.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old October 5th, 2005, 19:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcfan
Is the article right when it says that "the principal aim of most of the leaders of the insurgents seems to have been the reunion of Belgium to France"? I didn't know that.
I can't say what the principal aims of the leaders were. I can say that the majority of insurgents, and the stated aim of the revolt, was to form an independent and viable Belgium, preferably under the protection of a power other than France or Prussia (their first choice being, of course, the UK).
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Anyway, about this partition plan, I don't think the Walloons in Eastern Belgium would have liked living under Prussia (who did?)
Again, true. Luxembourg would have been acceptable (after all, it was part of the German Confederation). Then again, the partition (along those lines) makes very little sense for other reasons. Why would Brussels (then a Dutch-speaking city) be given to France? Why would the 'Antwerp Free State' include Zeeuws-Vlaanderen, where secession was never a consideration? What about putting Dutch Limburg under the Prussian yoke? Finally (and here's the big question), HOW did Talleyrand ever think it possible for the British to accept partition? Any independent Belgium would, by its very nature, be under British protection, as would the United Kingdom of the Netherlands on condition that the revolt failed.
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and I'm not sure if the Flemish in North Belgium would have wanted to continue to live under the Dutch.
I've not too sure. For 150 years after the Belgian revolt, the Flemings were oppressed by a constitutional settlement favouring Walloons (despite Flemings forming the majority), when they had been promised (at the outset) that they would have constitutional protection.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old October 6th, 2005, 19:25
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I've not too sure. For 150 years after the Belgian revolt, the Flemings were oppressed by a constitutional settlement favouring Walloons (despite Flemings forming the majority), when they had been promised (at the outset) that they would have constitutional protection.
I would rather die than have to live under a Dutch (or "Antwerp/Brabant") reign
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2005, 21:45
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And I'd rather die than live under a Scottish reign, yet, here we are.

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

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Cacěni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

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Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2005, 21:48
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Then start a campaign to seceede England from the UK p
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2005, 22:37
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I've a better idea. At next year's Labour conference, let's get Bournemouth to secede.

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacěni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
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