Should Turkey be accepted into the EU? - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2005, 18:56 Thread Starter
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Should Turkey be accepted into the EU?

With current negoations taking place in Luxemberg, should Turkey take EU membership? Or should they be given association membership or none at all?

The cons of them joining have been discussed as a large population, poor economy, bad human rights, Cyprus and a Muslim country, with the pros being open trade, regulated borders against drugs and illegal immigrants and strengthen relations with Caucaus and Middle Eastern countries.

A lot of European public support is against Turkey joining especially in France, Germany and unsurprisingly Greece with countries such as Hungry and Poland registering among the highest.

Where do you stand on the issue? If you are Turkish, do you want Turkey to join?

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post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2005, 21:42
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I don't want to sound like a prat. I've been to Turkey a few years ago and loved the place and people but Turkey's HUGE population and low average income might make integration into the EU difficult infact in my eyes impossible.

I'm not saying these are problems for myself because at all but there are some interesting questions for everyone to try and answer.

Turkeys Human rights record recently?
Is Turkey even apart of Europe? Lets face it culturally or Geographically are they?
What is their siuation regarding Cyprus and in the future?
Greece and Turkey caused already so many malfunctions within NATO, imagine what their bilateral rivalry would bring into the EU?
Why is the USA so keen for Turkey to be apart of the EU?
Is Turkey's so-called transformation into a European state more motivated by economic necessity than a genuine desire to implement democratic principles and values similar to that of other members?
Is Turkey a potential bridge between Europe and the Middle East? (VERY controversial dont worry)
If a full membership of Turkey was accepted would millions of Turks emigrate to other countries within the EU? Are other countries ready for that?
Have other muslims in the world looked down on Turkey for wanting to join the E.U?

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post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 04:17
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Ultimatly its religion and history what this is about. Russell is sort of opposed on a practical reason. But the Austrians and Hungarians are oppossed because they believe they saved Christianity once before from the invading Turks, and this is part 2 of that war.

I think that is a nutty view of things, just like the people who say Iraq war is part of the crusade from the 12th century

Turks can already travel anywhere in Europe and wont all leave their country suddenly. I know the Turkish population is high in Germany (I guess they're ok when building the country) but not know :rollani:

In England and Sweden there is a high percentage too, it that really a bad thing? But I question the motives of including them in. I feel the Blair government is only pushing for this for economic reasons. The Turkish population would be the highest in Europe, they would take less wages, and as Britain is the nation which lobbyed the most for this inclusion Britain would recieve a favourable treatement :thmbdown:
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post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 11:22
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At this moment Turkey nor any other country (even if it were the wealthy Swiss) should be allowed in.

The reason for that is not economical and certainly not religious. The reason for it lies within the EU itself. Due to it's current way of decision-making - the weight of voting, the amount of commissioners,... and most of all the consensus rule on the most important issues - letting in a country as big as Turkey would immobilise the EU as political entity even more than it is today. That, by the way, is the reason why the Britain and the US are such strong advocates to allow them in.

A small step towards a solution would have been the Constitution. This treaty(!) answered some demands that had rissen after the expantion to 25 memberstates (which was a muistake for the very same reason written above). Unfortunately some politicians felt the populistic need to organise a referendum about a question that should only have been answered with a 'yes of course '.

Anyway as soon as these needs are fullfilled Turkey should be allowed in.

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post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 13:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gOD
A small step towards a solution would have been the Constitution. This treaty(!) answered some demands that had rissen after the expantion to 25 memberstates (which was a muistake for the very same reason written above). Unfortunately some politicians felt the populistic need to organise a referendum about a question that should only have been answered with a 'yes of course '.
Indeed.

Personally I think that the EU has already expanded way too fast and I believe there should be at least a temporary stop for any country.

On Turkey: I have just said that I would like to see a temporary stop for any country, including Turkey. I don't have more trouble with Turkey joining as with any other country. My point is not personally against Turkey. They can join, but not now. Same goes for other countries like Romania, Croatia et al.

I think the EU is slightly hypocritical when it comes to Turkey. They don't have half the objections to other candidate states, while nations like Romania for instance are relatively poor too and suffering from massive corruption.

I think the EU has already grown too large too fast, but since we are at this point already, we should look at every candidate nation unbiased.

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post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 14:52
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Like any organization, the EU has the right to dictate certain criteria be met prior to membership. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to require certain social and ecconomic reforms be met before membership is extended.

That being said, for the EU to maintain it's legitimacy, it has to be very careful on how they handle these type of situations. If they do indeed deny membership to anyone, it had better be for the right reasons.

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post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 15:54
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4305500.stm

It took a while, but Austria finally backed down to the pressure.

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post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 16:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Pac
But the Austrians and Hungarians are oppossed because they believe they saved Christianity once before from the invading Turks, and this is part 2 of that war
I don't know where you heard it but I can tell you it's bullsh!t
Turkish invasion of Hungary is part of interesting history and there's no such fool in Hungary who would consider this in any other way.
Moreover, we are proud of our Turkish baths (lots of them are still operating), minarets, etc. This is exciting 500-year-old history in present days, mate. And we had recovered, this is also important, because Hungary lost huge territories after WWI and these ones will never come back.

When it comes to the EU-thing, I dunno. Human rights of course must be granted.

(I just heard the news Carla del Ponte opened the way for Croatia )
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post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 16:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Máté
(I just heard the news Carla del Ponte opened the way for Croatia )
If that is true, it's just sad. War crimes are not something to be bargained with.

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post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 17:04
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Go there and catch Gotovina (assuming he's there which is not likely imho).
Just kidding, but seriously, this is a very weak reason in such a big deal like joining the Union. And lots of western EU nations are war criminals too, have they paid the penalty, will they ever?
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post #11 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 21:11
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No other country refuses to recognise and has under permanent embargo an EU member state. If you want to put it differently, no other country occupies illegaly half the land of an EU member state.

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post #12 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 22:07
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Not quite half of it, but...

(pure Bastin-bait)

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post #13 of 108 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 23:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubh-bán
Not quite half of it, but...

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Me no speaky no English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
No other country refuses to recognise and has under permanent embargo an EU member state. If you want to put it differently, no other country occupies illegaly half the land of an EU member state.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner, and the 1978 Ford Cortina goes to Mr. AMOROSO! of Greenwich. Turkey can't be allowed into the EU until it recognises Cyprus, it accepts the Republic of Cyprus' right to sovereignty over the entire island (excluding the 3% that it gave to the UK, of course), and it withdraws support for its puppet regime in the north.

Oh, and, not for the first time, gOD is a joke. It's really funny that he believes so staunchly in human rights, but, when it comes to allowing people to vote, it's an affront to his very principles!

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post #14 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 03:10
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It seams theres an agreement...

The Foreing turkish minister, Abdulá Gul, arrived to Luxemburgo to the ceremony that will start the negotiation to Turkey join EU.

Gul and the delegation were welcome in the EU building by Jack Straw and Javier Solana.

The rukish minister fly from Ankara when the EU foreing minister got the deal to start the negotiation on monday night.

The document got before the agreement from the britan presidence and the 2 countries that object: Austria and Cyprus and then got the agreement with the turkish government what make the 25's agreement.


This is what i just read in one of our newspapers ...
Sorry for the translation ... maybe is not 100%

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post #15 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 03:33
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no

for reasons that amo and bastin stated

also for the fact that they would drag it down more then it already is...

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post #16 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 11:05
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With an agreement i mean that could star to negotiate .... is what the media said in my country ....

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post #17 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 11:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOROSO!
No other country refuses to recognise and has under permanent embargo an EU member state. If you want to put it differently, no other country occupies illegaly half the land of an EU member state.
If you think it's catastrophic be aware that Romania itself took 103,000 km2 from Hungary which remained only 93,000 km2, and now Hungary supports Romania in the EU.
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post #18 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 11:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Why is the USA so keen for Turkey to be apart of the EU?
Yeah why is that, anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
If a full membership of Turkey was accepted would millions of Turks emigrate to other countries within the EU?
I don't think this would be a problem. It's not that Turks are emigrating that much anymore and it's not that EU would allow a million of turks to suddenly emigrate elsewhere.

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post #19 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 17:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Máté
If you think it's catastrophic be aware that Romania itself took 103,000 km2 from Hungary which remained only 93,000 km2, and now Hungary supports Romania in the EU.
If I think it's catastrophic? No, because Cyprus has stick it up by being better off in pretty much everything - though at the time it was catastrophic.

Do I think it should be a reason for Turkey to not enter the EU? Absolutely.

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post #20 of 108 (permalink) Old October 4th, 2005, 17:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Máté
(I just heard the news Carla del Ponte opened the way for Croatia )

:thmbdown:

del Ponte is a cow and the EU is no better. Croatia won't join the EU, the people are not supportive of it right now.
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