Medical Experiments & Animals - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: Where do you stand on animal experiments?
All manner of testing on animals is justified including medical and cosmetic testing 1 5.56%
Testing on animals is justified only for medical research 14 77.78%
It's immoral, unethical and demonstrates lack of respect for life 2 11.11%
Unopinionated 1 5.56%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2005, 00:11 Thread Starter
Premier Player
 
Faith Knopfler's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2004
Teams: La Vecchia Signora
Posts: 1,756
Medical Experiments & Animals

It is no surprise that animals have been used for vivisection and other laboratory procedures since the beginning of scientific medicine.

On the one hand, we have the radical animal rights groups and those who stand for the ethical treatment of animals. But knowing humans (and commercial pressures) I doubt any ethical considerations would be adhered to for long, if that. There is also the overwhelming influence of animal activists' propaganda which suggests that the use of animals is immoral and scientifically incorrect; with little to back the latter and resigned emotion in the stead of objectivity.

Then there are those in favor of medical experiments on animals who attempt to legitimize and defend their claim by seeking legal merit in the greater good.

I believe there is still room for disagreement on the extent of benefits from the use of animals in scientific research. There are many scientific grounds for skepticism about the claims that medical users of animals have made. Although many activists against the use of animal testing think the opposition does not have a valid case, I believe both sides offer many arguments that are worthy of consideration.

Does the end justify the means? Where do you stand?

Galbraith
Faith Knopfler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old October 2nd, 2005, 23:21
First Place winner, June 2010 Photo Contest
Xtratime Legend
 
Boyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2000
Posts: 37,165
Blog Entries: 7
Testing on animals only goes so far. For medicine to be allowed for human use, it first has to be tested on humans as well. You can find ads in the papers from time to time, asking for volunteers for such testing. Question would be to which extent the animal experiments are still necessary then.

I am not too knowledgeable on the actual test on animals, but I think that, already for quite a while, due to the pressure for animal rights groups, the vivisection is not what it once was. Also, just as with animals for human consumption, the animals in these experiments are specially bred for it. The idea that Fluffy, the cute cat next door, is going to be picked up off the street to have bad men spray a nasty substance in her eyes, isn't a genuine concern.

If a test, has to be done on an animal, then it should at least be done in such a way that the animal doesn't suffer. That should be the prerequisite to such tests. And as far as I'm concerned it should only be applied to the field of medicine, and not to that of cosmetics, as I hardly consider the latter a necessity.

Mercedes bastard & Limburger-loving schmuck

Last edited by Boyo; October 3rd, 2005 at 00:08.
Boyo is online now  
post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 14:28
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Boyo has said it all ... Ditto!!

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
 
post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 18:08
World Class Player
World Class Player
 
Bastin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, the UK
Teams: Arsenal, Watford, UK NTs, and dozens more.
Posts: 7,673
Experimentation should be unrestricted. Animals have rights, but not the right to impede humanity in any way, including in cosmetics.

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacìni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
Bastin is offline  
post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 18:09
Nasty Woman
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Humbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2000
Location: USA
Teams: Argentina, Lazio, Fiorentina
Posts: 22,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
Experimentation should be unrestricted. Animals have rights, but not the right to impede humanity in any way, including in cosmetics.
No, Bastie, that's wrong. Nobody has the right to torture an animal just to wear a new shade of lipstick.

But tomorrow is new day and new chance. -- Alija

Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
Humbird is offline  
post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 18:22
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
No, Bastie, that's wrong. Nobody has the right to torture an animal just to wear a new shade of lipstick.
Actually, it depends on the shade of the lipstick and whos lips it's on ...

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 18:25
Nasty Woman
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Humbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2000
Location: USA
Teams: Argentina, Lazio, Fiorentina
Posts: 22,582
Bad Hawki!

But tomorrow is new day and new chance. -- Alija

Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
Humbird is offline  
post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 18:33
World Class Player
 
monte's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Posts: 7,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastin
Experimentation should be unrestricted. Animals have rights, but not the right to impede humanity in any way, including in cosmetics.
:thmbdown: It should most definitely not be unrestricted.

I don't think you are in the position to say where animal rights end and ours predominate, either.

Nicely put Boyo
monte is offline  
post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 18:47
World Class Player
World Class Player
 
Bastin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, the UK
Teams: Arsenal, Watford, UK NTs, and dozens more.
Posts: 7,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by monte
I don't think you are in the position to say where animal rights end and ours predominate, either.
I'm a Human Supremacist. Shoot me.

Glen: "That last post of Bastin's is just too authoritative to argue against."

gOD: "It scares the f*ck out of me but I'm with Bastin here."

Cacìni: "Ah, there you go using that absurd über-memory of your's...not fair."

Boyo: "Even when it comes to rap, Bastin is an authority."

Attila_the_Nun: "A most respected scion of Misty Albion, the illustious Bastin - the redoubtable defender of all our noble traditions."

Humbird: "Bastin is very attractive when talking nautical! "
Bastin is offline  
post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 19:35
Forum Manager
Legend
 
O Glorioso's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2001
Location: New York
Teams: Portugal, SL Benfica, Manchester United
Posts: 13,074
Blog Entries: 3
IMHO, this is life. Survival of the fitest you may say. In order to insure our survival we must take these precautions on testing drugs. Unfortunately, at the moment the best method we have is by testing on other animals. So I'm quite in favor of it, as long as it doesn't cause an immediate danger to the species. For example, Mice reproduce so rapidly and were one of the reasons for the spread of the bubonic plague that tore through Europe killing millions. I'm sure that using a few 100 mice won't hurt them that much.

O GLORIOSO



O Glorioso is offline  
post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:00
Xtratime Elite
 
Bentex's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2002
Location: Bentexico
Teams: Magyar NT
Posts: 79,364
Blog Entries: 3
I voted, 'Testing on animals is justified only for medical research'

as long it's done in the right way!
Bentex is offline  
post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:06
***** *******
Star Player
 
dubh-bán's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2001
Location: Somewhere in France
Teams: Juventus, Ireland
Posts: 3,784
I think it's a bit much to subject rabbits to medical tests. I have a mate who's really smart and even he couldn't get past second year.

:embarass: :embarass:
:embarass: :embarass:
:embarass: :embarass:
Are you watching enough TV?
dubh-bán is offline  
post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:18
Rising Star
 
Hawki's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2005
Location: NorCal, USA
Teams: Manchester United; SV Werder Bremen
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
Bad Hawki!
What color do you use?

The secret of happiness is to make others believe they are the cause of it.
- Al Batt -
Hawki is offline  
post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:32
Nasty Woman
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Humbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2000
Location: USA
Teams: Argentina, Lazio, Fiorentina
Posts: 22,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawki
What color do you use?
Feisty Kitten by Urban Decay

But tomorrow is new day and new chance. -- Alija

Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
Humbird is offline  
post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:36
Legend
 
lili's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2003
Location: Slovenia
Teams: Real Madrid, Ajax, Slovenian NT
Posts: 12,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
No, Bastie, that's wrong. Nobody has the right to torture an animal just to wear a new shade of lipstick.
Aren't we a bit hypocrats here, Humbird? I mean, it's ok to let them eat all sort of drugs, which destroy their inner organs or cause immediate death, but it's not ok to test a Garnier Ultra Lift on animals?
Point is, also cosmetics aren't harmless and need to be tested and unfortunately there is no alternative to animals for now.
I'm not saying, I support all the tests, but let's stay real here.
lili is offline  
post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:41
Nasty Woman
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Humbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2000
Location: USA
Teams: Argentina, Lazio, Fiorentina
Posts: 22,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by lili
Aren't we a bit hypocrats here, Humbird? I mean, it's ok to let them eat all sort of drugs, which destroy their inner organs or cause immediate death, but it's not ok to test a Garnier Ultra Lift on animals?
Point is, also cosmetics aren't harmless and need to be tested and unfortunately there is no alternative to animals for now.
there are many cosmetics companies that do not test on animals, including the ones I use, Urban Decay, Body Shop, and Mary Kay.

But tomorrow is new day and new chance. -- Alija

Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
Humbird is offline  
post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:51
Legend
 
lili's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2003
Location: Slovenia
Teams: Real Madrid, Ajax, Slovenian NT
Posts: 12,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
there are many cosmetics companies that do not test on animals, including the ones I use, Urban Decay, Body Shop, and Mary Kay.
I know and i think it's risky. Also a skin cream for example can hardly harm an animal more than an anti rheumatic cream.
I'm not sure what cosmetic companies do, who aren't making tests on animals. Perhaps they use ingredients already tested by other companies? In such a case they directly don't do the tests, but the tests are still done on animals.
lili is offline  
post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 20:58
Nasty Woman
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Humbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2000
Location: USA
Teams: Argentina, Lazio, Fiorentina
Posts: 22,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by lili
I know and i think it's risky. Also a skin cream for example can hardly harm an animal more than an anti rheumatic cream.
I'm not sure what cosmetic companies do, who aren't making tests on animals. Perhaps they use ingredients already tested by other companies? In such a case they directly don't do the tests, but the tests are still done on animals.
Lili, you can google animal testing as well as I can to answer those questions. The EU has already banned animal testing for cosmetics.
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/mar03/030301a.asp

But tomorrow is new day and new chance. -- Alija

Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
Humbird is offline  
post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 21:06
Legend
 
lili's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2003
Location: Slovenia
Teams: Real Madrid, Ajax, Slovenian NT
Posts: 12,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
Lili, you can google animal testing as well as I can to answer those questions. The EU has already banned animal testing for cosmetics.
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/mar03/030301a.asp
Actually they didn't. A complete ban should follow in 2009 and for 3 cathegories of products deadline is 2013.

And what do you think about this:

'Some European Union member countries—including the United Kingdom and Germany—had previously banned cosmetic product testing on animals in their respective countries, but not the importation of such products from other countries.'

Isn't it just another example of hypocracy, Humbird? The U.K. and Germany banned the testing on their animals, but it still doesn't matter a little bit if they are done elsewhere, eh?
lili is offline  
post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old October 3rd, 2005, 21:08
Nasty Woman
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Humbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2000
Location: USA
Teams: Argentina, Lazio, Fiorentina
Posts: 22,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by lili
Actually they didn't. A complete ban should follow in 2009 and for 3 cathegories of products deadline is 2013.

And what do you think about this:

'Some European Union member countries—including the United Kingdom and Germany—had previously banned cosmetic product testing on animals in their respective countries, but not the importation of such products from other countries.'

Isn't it just another example of hypocracy, Humbird? The U.K. and Germany banned the testing on their animals, but it still doesn't matter a little bit if they are done elsewhere, eh?
I'm can't do anything about it except to purchase only products not tested on animals, which I already do. You can choose for yourself what you want to support.

But tomorrow is new day and new chance. -- Alija

Nel cielo biancazzurro brilla un'altra stella - In the lightblue sky another star shines. Alija tu non sarai mai sola. Alija you will never be alone.
Humbird is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome