Pinochet's wife and son in jail - Xtratime Community
 
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old August 11th, 2005, 03:44 Thread Starter
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Pinochet's wife and son in jail

Today a chilean judge prosecuted to the wife and the son of Pinochet for evade (taxes).
After the twin towers attack, in the investigation of the banks, were found several bank acounts in Bank Riggs that belong to Pinochet ... since that all his family has been investigated.
The mount is abt US$ 25 millions ...
He said today that he is the responsible of everything ... killer and thief too.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old August 12th, 2005, 22:47 Thread Starter
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The wife is free now after pay ... but the son is still in jail coz the judge considere him as danger to the society.
US$ 1 millions was found in a bank in Miami ...
What do u think abt Pinochet???

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old August 12th, 2005, 22:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacique
What do u think abt Pinochet???
and you ?

I guess your opinion (I presume that you are Chilean) is much more than interesting than mine.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old August 12th, 2005, 23:04
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I travel to Chile about 8 times a year and i still find that speaking about Pinochet with Chileans is taboo. It is always a lose-lose situation no matter what one says.

Pinochet was ruthless but kept a good econmy going and an outstanding education program that are the bases to what Chile is today.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 04:37 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by barça
Pinochet was ruthless but kept a good econmy going and an outstanding education program that are the bases to what Chile is today.
About the economy ur right, his govenment put the bases but no about educationn ... the chilean education is really bad ... the democratic government had done very much but still is not good.
About the economy also de democratic governments made grow and opened the country to the world, now we can make business with any country in the world because the world trust in Chile. But is not because of Pinochet.
In 17 years he made disapeared people just because they had a left thought. Many people was killed for a mistake, children, women, old, men were killed and their bodies throwed to the ocean, far from the coast.
He was ruthless and that is unforgivable ... he deserves to be in the jail to pay his crimes ... after all this time and after the good judges show how guilty he was ... theres no much people that support him.
Long life to Pinochet to pay ... but in this life for thousand inocents human being that he ordered to kill.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 10:02
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Yeah. It's like when the people of the Spanish right says that, at least, Franco raised the Spanish economy and blah blah blah... the truth is that, if Spain had been a democratical country, this place will be better and the same goes for Chile.

Pinochet destroyed a democracy, made a genocide, he was a thief and a corrupt and he created an internal division that will be difficult to forget, as it happens here. He'll never finish in jail, but history put him in his right place.

I'm glad to see him and his family suffering all this process, Garzón did a good job, but it's much better to see Chile dealing with their own history, something that we never did in Spain and still we had to see how people like Fraga and many other people that oppressed our people during the Franquismo can safely walk in our streets due to a hypocritical amnesty law in the 70s. I envy Chile in that sense.

Franco died on his bed, but Pinochet will die pretending to be a fool to avoid justice, with his person and his family going to court almost everyday. Probably, nothing will happen, because this world still is unfair, but it is worth anyway. Viva Chile!
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 15:38 Thread Starter
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The hero was Garzon .... after he got him in London for more that a year, everything started ... the world saw him leaving London in a chairwheel and arrving to Chile and start to walk. Miracle!!!!!
He has been in his "golden jail" ... militar hospital more than a time and now his family... is something.
I understand the death familie's that say "no forget no forgive" because they dont have still a body to cry or a place where put flowers ... but at least some other torturous are in the jail.
The worst is that many of his ministers are free, but now they say .... we didnt know ... and the ONU embassador who said in the ONU forum that the disapeared didnt exist is still in a poliutical party. He also said he was convinced that it was true .... i cant beleive it.
Koeman i can tell u that maybe u cant apreciate this ... but for the world, de free and democratic world ... Franco and his supporters were one of the biggest criminals of the XX siecle.
The history wont lie.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 19:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacique
What do u think abt Pinochet???
He ousted a democratically elected Socialist government. He's a big prick.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2005, 03:22
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A lot of people think that if these countries were democracies things would be much better. Often that isnt the case. Democracies are much more susceptible to bureaucracy, corruption and inefficiencies.

Which is not to say I like dictatorships




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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2005, 18:49 Thread Starter
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I bet u never live with a dictatorial government.
We got back the democracy 16 years ago .... and Chiles is not a corrupted country ... we respect democracy coz we lost and was dificult get it back.

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2005, 22:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Caddington
Democracies are much more susceptible to bureaucracy, corruption and inefficiencies.
As opposed to murders, jailings, opression, death squads, lack of basic civil rights that any decent dictatorship offers.

Yeah, people are weirdos for preffering democracy.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2005, 22:41
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How in heavens name can you claim a democracy suffers more from corruption? Corruption is the foundation of a dictatorship.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2005, 04:10
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From what I know of Pinochet he was a self serving right wing oppressor of the first degree. But my disclaimer is that I haven't read about Pinochet in depth, I just know the basics.

But if everything I've read about this man is true its nice to see that Chile has rid itself from the shackles of dictatorship. Hopefully Chile will have a bright future. :O)
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2005, 06:21
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Originally Posted by JKris
How in heavens name can you claim a democracy suffers more from corruption? Corruption is the foundation of a dictatorship.
Jkris, Cacique, Amoroso, perhaps I should have been more clear-

The level of authority and discipline wielded in a dictatorship makes corruption less likely. Of course, there is the negative aspect of lack of human rights, etc.

Laws and the judiciary are often inefficient in many developing democracies. Its difficult to enforce, and prevention of corruption is nearly impossible. Only a few select first world democratic systems are truly effective. Most of the others are incredibly shoddy, especially when money comes into play.

I bet most people here would disapprove of China's system. But you cannot deny that it has been extraordinarily effective for themselves.

Perhaps im an idealist dreaming of an intelligent, capable dictator whos priorities lie in the benefit of the country.

Write me off as a lunatic




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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2005, 07:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Caddington
Jkris, Cacique, Amoroso, perhaps I should have been more clear-

The level of authority and discipline wielded in a dictatorship makes corruption less likely. Of course, there is the negative aspect of lack of human rights, etc.

Laws and the judiciary are often inefficient in many developing democracies. Its difficult to enforce, and prevention of corruption is nearly impossible. Only a few select first world democratic systems are truly effective. Most of the others are incredibly shoddy, especially when money comes into play.

I bet most people here would disapprove of China's system. But you cannot deny that it has been extraordinarily effective for themselves.

Perhaps im an idealist dreaming of an intelligent, capable dictator whos priorities lie in the benefit of the country.

Write me off as a lunatic
I've heard that intelligent capable dictator argument many times but it has one major flaw. What happens when he dies and there is a power vacuum? Then what?
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2005, 02:23
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That is indeed the problem, similar to a Monarchy. Democracy will have to take over if you want to maintain effective government. Or maybe not- maybe a selected electorate can decide. If instead of a dictator, a sort of oligarchy.




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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2005, 03:20 Thread Starter
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No, no ... free elections is the best from my point of view. Why selected electorate?? Not all citizens are the same???
Everybody has the right to vote for those he/she thinks is the better candidate.
I really dont understand ... maybe is because of my english is not good enough, but the fact is i love democracy most of all.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2005, 03:54
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The problem with this new democracy of Chile's is all the career politicians chewing it all up.

They've been at it for over 15 years and they all drive German cars.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2005, 05:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacique
No, no ... free elections is the best from my point of view. Why selected electorate?? Not all citizens are the same???
Everybody has the right to vote for those he/she thinks is the better candidate.
I really dont understand ... maybe is because of my english is not good enough, but the fact is i love democracy most of all.
Cacique, democracy is good. But you must make sure that the government works for the people, not for bribes and corruption. If the government will not do that, Chile will have very good days ahead of them.

But if corruption will take place.......it means bad news for Chile's future as a whole. If you look around the world, so many "democracies" have corruption, where people serve money instead of the people. That is why there are problems in their society.




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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2005, 11:30 Thread Starter
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Yes Lor Cadington, ur right in that point but ... dicatorship is corrupted too.
Our experience show that all those were supporter of Pinochet's government are now very rich ... Pinochet and is family are in serious problems for that too.
Pinochet says that the US$ 25 millions or so that he has in the Bank in diferent accounts with differnet names are the savings of his life ...c'mon chilean are not stupid, the world is not stupid.
I beleive that in democracy u can stop the corruption much more than in a dictatorship because u have a congress that take care and watch the government work.
The Low Camera (Diputados) do it very well, and at leat in Chile a strong oposite is good in that.
Last 3 democratic government, what means 14 years, has not corruption problems.
And what abt Loco says, this year we will have elections ... and the people will say if they are doing things well or not. And abt german cars .... im not sure, i see them in japanese cars

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