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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2005, 20:44 Thread Starter
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Immigration.

What are your views on immigration and immigrants in your country?

1. Is your country doing them a favor? Are they doing your country a favor? Or is the benefit even?

2. Are immigrants in general a benefit to your society? A drawback? Or neither?




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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2005, 21:05
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as to your first question,IMO here in Australia the benifit is even.

as to your second question,IMO they're a benifit to Australia's society by far.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2005, 23:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Caddington
What are your views on immigration and immigrants in your country?

1. Is your country doing them a favor? Are they doing your country a favor? Or is the benefit even?

2. Are immigrants in general a benefit to your society? A drawback? Or neither?
1. They're saving the welfare state and the social security system. At the same time, I guess that, if they stay here, it's because they're here better than in their country, so... the benefit is even.

2. Immigration always carry problems, for us and for them, but the overall experience is good. The economy is growing more than ever and they're part of it. From the point of view of the culture, the mixture is always good. Probably, we also have more problems of security, related with illegal immigration and the consequences of the margination. Anyway, as I said, I think that Spain is a better country with them.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old August 8th, 2005, 11:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Caddington
1. Is your country doing them a favor? Are they doing your country a favor? Or is the benefit even?
It works both ways. Immigrants get to eat and enjoy better education and healthcare, and in return they offer cheap labour, something the economy could not live without.

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2. Are immigrants in general a benefit to your society? A drawback? Or neither?
There are both negatives and positives. I don't really buy all these multicultularism business, however I do believe that in the long term the presence of immigrants is a basis for a more open, accepting and tolerant society. The problems are well known (high criminality, leeching off the benefit system), but in my opinion these problems arise due to the social structure rather than the immigrants. The poorest class of this society is bound to have a high criminality, if it wasn't immigrants it would be natives.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old August 8th, 2005, 12:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Caddington
What are your views on immigration and immigrants in your country?

1. Is your country doing them a favor? Are they doing your country a favor? Or is the benefit even?

2. Are immigrants in general a benefit to your society? A drawback? Or neither?
I share simular views with Koeman and Thanassis when it comes to Immigrants in Italy. However, In Sweden I have a diffrent point of view about it.

Yes we are doing them a favour, a big one. Even if we don't have enough resources to take in Immigrants lately, we still do it more then other country's with simular resources. In the 90's there were too much immigration to Sweden and in the long run many came to live in segregated areas and they didn't get a job either. Sweden did help Immigrants from wars like Somalia, Balkan, Iraq, Kurds and so on but compared to many other countries we took in much more. There were also alot of foreigners that came in that just "wanted a better life" and I think that the limit should have been set there, another problem was that the majority came to big cities where there already was a alot of unemplyemnt. In the 60's and 70's Immigrants were were a favour to our society, Sweden wasn't the most multi cultural country at all and we were in desperate need of work force, so many educated workers came here from Balkan, Italy, Spain and Turkey and those came into the society imediatly and found jobs that they couldn't get in their domestic countries, however the Socialists continued with the policy of beeing a "free state" for Immigrants and the longer the time passed and the less jobs that we had, the more Immigrants arrived. Sure there were many educated Immigrants that didn't find a job, cause of discrimination and unemploment, but lately there have been mostly refugees with little education coming here and since the situation is already hard many end up on welfare which infuriates many Swedes. I'm sure that many of them would like to work, but since the Swedish welfare system is there to help everyone, many don't need to and Sweden also help their families to come here safe so eventually alot of people comes in. Right now they don't benefit anymore and I wish that countries like Canada or Australia that need them or countries that refused to take in any like Finland could do it instead.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old August 8th, 2005, 14:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Caddington
What are your views on immigration and immigrants in your country?

1. Is your country doing them a favor? Are they doing your country a favor? Or is the benefit even?

2. Are immigrants in general a benefit to your society? A drawback? Or neither?
Yes on both Qs. When clear agreements concerning mutual rights and duties are made and generally lived by, immigration is doing all parties involved a favour. I'm aware however that these words are so up for interpretation that they cause a lot of discussion.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 01:06
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I was born in England of immigrant parents, and am an immigrant in Moscow, I would say the effect depends on the immigrant(s). Some of us respect the nation which accepted us, while others do not.
I would dispute that immigrants receive 'better education' - most immigrants head for W Europe or N America, both are parts of the world where the education is notoriously appalling.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 22:54
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Originally Posted by Attila_the_Nun
I would dispute that immigrants receive 'better education' - most immigrants head for W Europe or N America, both are parts of the world where the education is notoriously appalling.
Blah blah blah, Attie. At least here if you want an education you can get one. Nobody really is turned away from higher education, there's not many hoops to jump through in the way of testing which slams the door on some student not deemed bright enough to continue. I have a friend from Japan who is studying here because she could not get into a Japanese university. Their loss, as she is an incredible person and will add alot to our country when she becomes a citizen, as she intends to do.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 23:00
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Originally Posted by Humbird
Blah blah blah, Attie. At least here if you want an education you can get one. Nobody really is turned away from higher education, there's not many hoops to jump through in the way of testing which slams the door on some student not deemed bright enough to continue. I have a friend from Japan who is studying here because she could not get into a Japanese university. Their loss, as she is an incredible person and will add alot to our country when she becomes a citizen, as she intends to do.
Point taken, Humbird, and I don't disagree with it. The reason for the post is that a lot of people emigrate west from Poland, Russia, Ukraine etc where the education is superb (a lot better than ours) but as you say, the opportunities in our patch are better.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 23:05
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I've just heard too many horror stories about students taking test after test and totally believing that those scores will be the only thing that matters in the rest of their lives. Here you can start at any number of colleges, universities, 2 year community colleges and work your way to more elite universities. I think it's a good system.

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old August 13th, 2005, 23:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbird
I've just heard too many horror stories about students taking test after test and totally believing that those scores will be the only thing that matters in the rest of their lives. Here you can start at any number of colleges, universities, 2 year community colleges and work your way to more elite universities. I think it's a good system.
I know that some schools in the UK set prospective teachers basic tests in English and Maths, because even though the teacher has a university degree, that is no longer any guarantee that the person can read, write, or even count.
Yours may not have deteriorated to that extent.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 00:12
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well, the world is founded in both inmigration and emigration, so what's the necesity of seeing it, or better semlling it as a bad thing?, I don't recall who once said that sadly Europe has a hard time in leaving some sort of provincial attitude even between countries from Europe, sad in my view..Argentina wouldn't even exist..heheh I guess that will be a good reason for not being in favour of inmigration for many...

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 02:53
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Originally Posted by Fangio
well, the world is founded in both inmigration and emigration, so what's the necesity of seeing it, or better semlling it as a bad thing?, I don't recall who once said that sadly Europe has a hard time in leaving some sort of provincial attitude even between countries from Europe, sad in my view..Argentina wouldn't even exist..heheh I guess that will be a good reason for not being in favour of inmigration for many...
In the UK it is a taboo subject. One side scream that all immigrants are cute, fluffy and perfect while the other want all of them kicked out. Blair obviously sucks up to both extremist views; so many good people are prevented from entering while many racists & terrorist sympathisers are not kicked out.
I for one am glad Argentina exists - my favourite World Cup was 1978
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 06:36
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Education is etrocious in the States? If you are talking about a college education, you are utterly wrong.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 11:15
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In the UK it is a taboo subject. One side scream that all immigrants are cute, fluffy and perfect while the other want all of them kicked out. Blair obviously sucks up to both extremist views; so many good people are prevented from entering while many racists & terrorist sympathisers are not kicked out.
I for one am glad Argentina exists - my favourite World Cup was 1978
hehe, odd period among many to like us, I guess it was because we were so "human and righteous"; the thing is that WE ALL are inmigrants, or better come from inmigrants, is as natural as walking...the one that can supply proove of being born from a rock of his backyard to throw the first stone!...

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 11:46
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Originally Posted by Attila_the_Nun
I know that some schools in the UK set prospective teachers basic tests in English and Maths, because even though the teacher has a university degree, that is no longer any guarantee that the person can read, write, or even count.
Yours may not have deteriorated to that extent.
For what Universities in the UK are you talking about? :rollani:
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 12:23
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For what Universities in the UK are you talking about? :rollani:
Do you want to try that sentence again? It looks like something produced by a graduate from a British university
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 12:30
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...nah ..but seriously...for which ones..
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old August 14th, 2005, 13:02
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Originally Posted by Andy
Education is etrocious in the States? If you are talking about a college education, you are utterly wrong.
According to those whom I know that have completed a North American education, the damage is done long before college.

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Originally Posted by Drito
...nah ..but seriously...for which ones..
I would hope Oxbridge are still OK, but in the UK degrees may as well be handed out with cornflake packets. It is, after all, the same people who oversee examinations. My own local establishment, Luton Tech college (sorry, university) is full of educationally-subnormals - and yes, I do mean the teachers.
Back to the thread topic, some schools prefer Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans as English teachers, because they have a better knowledge of the English language than their indigenous colleagues.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2005, 03:19 Thread Starter
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Actually education in the united states is the way it is for a reason. Nobody here commits suicide over education, nobody here develops psychological problems with regards to their education, nobody really experiences heartbreak because they failed a class or whatever. It has its pros and cons.




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