Primitivness - road to hell or to success ? - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: Is primitivness leading to success ?
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 10:56 Thread Starter
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Primitivness - road to hell or to success ?

My wife bought a book and got same second one for free Author is elaborating an theory about the most succesfull people being primitives.

When two loosers meet and discuss about the third succesfull one, they always finish with same cliché "He can have all the money and wealth and cars and hot woman but he´s - and always remain - a PRIMITIVE"

Primitivness = directness = rationality = success. No need to complicate things and waste time, go and take it. What do you think, yes or not ?

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 11:05
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er.... That rather depends on how you define success, doesn't it? You don't become a successful doctor, lawyer, politician and so on by being primitive.

Or maybe I'm understanding the word primitive wrong. In the Polish meaning (I don't know about Hungarian) it means someone who is uncultured, unwashed, unrefined socially. Who makes crass jokes and talks in basic, unsophisticated and inappropriate language. A simpleton, really. Who might be clever and devious and good at taking people's money, but still simpleminded.


Btw, isn't this the old "ignorance is bliss" question? Why strive to be educated and informed when you can be an ignorant, happy farmer your whole life?

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 11:29 Thread Starter
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I don´t want to go too philosophical about defining success, for majority of people, Success = Money.

Same with primitivness. Primitive = less sophisticated, simplified. Often used in derogatory meaning.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 11:31 Thread Starter
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I think it works, can compare myself working "primitive" and when complicating things. I made more money in the first case.

I say yes.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 11:35
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Well then money and sophistication are pretty orthogonal in my view. You can have both or neither, or either one. Some people with money don't want sophistication (I guess that's why the term nouveau riche was invented) and some people with sophistication put other goals before money.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 12:24
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I know people who are millionaires (in pounds), yet are not too bright. But really ruthless....
Play poker with them then
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 12:45
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er.... That rather depends on how you define success, doesn't it? You don't become a successful doctor, lawyer, politician and so on by being primitive.

Or maybe I'm understanding the word primitive wrong. In the Polish meaning (I don't know about Hungarian) it means someone who is uncultured, unwashed, unrefined socially.
Same in Hungarian, primitive in most cases (well 99% in everyday talk) means the above. A very negative attribute, I think KAjoo meant this meaning (though we know it also has a different, rather positive meaning, too, e.g. a harmless, straight farmer living on a very remote farm)

As for success, of yourse there are things you can't buy but let's say you are a good person (father, wife, husband, etc) having succes in your job (in terms of usually reaching the aim you or your employer had set for yourself), succesfully growing up your children, making them good persons as well - still there is the 'success factor' in general:

- are you wealthy enough to take out the neccessary things from this universe? Do you have the chance to travel around the world with your kids to show them as much as you like from it? Question of money!
- do you have time for yourself: wellness weekends, cafés, nice restaurants? Dresiing up sometimes the way you really feel good? Question of money!
- can you invite your friends to your house for a nice party without living on bread and water for the rest of the month? Question of money!
- etc

Whatever you do, be it one of the most important profession, it you don't get paid you can't be successful in THIS life, as it's more or less about money. And I vote yes because people without moral concerns can concentrate on making money only.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 13:10
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Mate, there is money and there is money. This obviously depends very much on the conditions of life, but a lot of people in these times have a job that pays enough for a perfectly satisfying life and yet are strictly middle class, to whom money is not an everyday topic, and who are in no way comparable to those people who chase money.

I think that perhaps the relevant question is: does money make you excited? I know a lot of people who are not particularly excited about money, to them it's a necessary thing like air or water, but they wouldn't dedicate themselves to making money for the sake of it, they have more interesting things to do.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 16:20
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Or maybe I'm understanding the word primitive wrong. In the Polish meaning (I don't know about Hungarian) it means someone who is uncultured, unwashed, unrefined socially. Who makes crass jokes and talks in basic, unsophisticated and inappropriate language.
In England we call these people chavs (Máté knows about them p ) hey btw, when Kajoo mentioned this topic to me I knew you would take part

Well my understanding of primitive is someone who doesn't have high level of intelligence, limited vocabulary, simple etc. They don't have to be unwashed or speak inappropriately.

From my experience a lot of people with a high IQ are not leading very good lives because they over-complicate things. They find it hard to make decisions. They suffer more from anxiety and stress, they worry about how their actions impact on others. Socially they come up short too, they can't unwind and enjoy life (l just like to repeat again, from my experience...that's why I'm very interested in this discussion).

While I know other people who are (lets say) simpler, yet they find a business that they understand...make a career and work themselves to the top. They're decisive... can make a decision in a split second and it's always the correct one.

I fully take your point, you have cannot a 'primitive' doctor, lawyer, accountant etc. I do also believe that they fall into the sub-category of the people I mentioned. Because these types of people know what they want from the start. While I think kajoo is talking more about business.

I'm pretty sure I'm on the same page as kajoo on this one I just want to mention a classic line from my man Sree who was a big brother contestant in UK "too much education causes are retardedness of the brain"
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 16:25
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and some people with sophistication put other goals before money.
Like what? Job satisfaction? Happiness?

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Play poker with them then
I have nothing to offer that they want
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 16:33
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In England we call these people chavs (Máté knows about them p ) hey btw, when Kajoo mentioned this topic to me I knew you would take part
Not sure what that says about me

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From my experience a lot of people with a high IQ are not leading very good lives because they over-complicate things. They find it hard to make decisions. They suffer more from anxiety and stress, they worry about how their actions impact on others. Socially they come up short too, they can't unwind and enjoy life (l just like to repeat again, from my experience...that's why I'm very interested in this discussion).
True indeed. But in the end everyone has problems, no? Maybe it's true that "simpler" people have a better grasp on living. But once you had the chance to know more and see more, would you turn it down? If someone told you "you know there is this thing called the internet, where you can talk to people all over the world, an it's brilliant, but sometimes there are trolls and people who are nasty and so it's really not worth it, I advise against it".

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 16:35
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Like what? Job satisfaction? Happiness?
No, not just that. But it's a good start What I mean is there are many pursuits people find worthy. Some people read history books. Some people write. Some people want to learn as many foreign languages as they possibly can in their lifetime. Some people write computer programs ( ).

Basically, there's so much else you can do aside from making money. And a lot of it you can do without having a giant stash of banknotes.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 16:51
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Not sure what that says about me
Why do you think it's says?

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True indeed. But in the end everyone has problems, no?
Yes everyone has problems, but the 'simpler' people worry about sickness, their family, love ones etc. While people with more intelligence have more irrational worries.

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Maybe it's true that "simpler" people have a better grasp on living. But once you had the chance to know more and see more, would you turn it down? If someone told you "you know there is this thing called the internet, where you can talk to people all over the world, an it's brilliant, but sometimes there are trolls and people who are nasty and so it's really not worth it, I advise against it".
You mean, if someone got offered a red or blue pill would they take it?

It's interesting, talking from a personal point of view. If I could flick a switch to make myself as intelligent as a lawyer, doctor or accountant etc would I do it? I couldn't answer that question right now.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 17:06
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No, not just that. But it's a good start What I mean is there are many pursuits people find worthy. Some people read history books. Some people write. Some people want to learn as many foreign languages as they possibly can in their lifetime. Some people write computer programs ( ).

Basically, there's so much else you can do aside from making money. And a lot of it you can do without having a giant stash of banknotes.
This is exactly what I've said for years in the kocsma, whatever flicks your switch

People who have a high IQ for me are not clever, It's not enough. I know many people who are intelligent and are depressed because their life is not how they want it. They have shitty jobs that make them miserable and they are not getting value on their life.

I always tell Máté that he has the best job in the world he works in the media... plays with satellites equipment, gadgets, computers and attends sporting events. He basically gets paid for what I do as a hobby But for him it's work...albeit he does have his moments

For me success is not just about how much money you have, it's only part of it. Success is fulfillment/satisfaction on a job well done

Actually we already had a thread on 'what is success in life', let me see if I can find it.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 17:09
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Why do you think it's says?
That's for you to answer, you expected me here

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Yes everyone has problems, but the 'simpler' people worry about sickness, their family, love ones etc. While people with more intelligence have more irrational worries.
Sure, but does that make one better than the other? I've been thinking about this for years and I don't know. Haven't figured it out.

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You mean, if someone got offered a red or blue pill would they take it?

It's interesting, talking from a personal point of view. If I could flick and switch to make myself as intelligent as a lawyer, doctor or accountant etc would I do it? I couldn't answer that question right now.
Exactly. We have a thirst for exploration. There's a tv station dedicated to showing you new and interesting things. It's called the Discovery Channel. Discovery is fun, it's compelling.

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 17:14
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This is exactly what I've said for years in the kocsma, whatever flicks your switch people who have a high IQ for me are not clever. It's not enough...I know many people who are intelligent and are depressed because their life is not how they want it. They have shitty jobs that make them miserable and they are not getting value on their life.
True. Being intelligent doesn't mean you know how to put it to good use. And a lot of people don't. They don't know what they want. They go to school, pick some field. Decide they don't like it. They switch. Drop out. Start working, don't like it. Find another job. Hopefully in the end they find what they were looking for.

Isn't it ironic that through thousands of years people lived their lives without much choice and now that a lot of people can choose almost every aspect in their life (what to do, where to live, who to be with), choice has become a huge problem?

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I always tell Máté that he has the best job in the world he works in the media... plays with satellites equipment, gadgets, computers and attends sporting events. He basically gets paid for what I do as a hobby But for him it's work...albeit he does have his moments
Doesn't sound so terrible to me

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For me success is not just about how much money you have, it's only part of it. Success is fulfillment/satisfaction on a job well done

We already had a thread on 'what is success in life', let me see if I can find it.
Well, the OP said "let's just keep it simple, success = money". Maybe that's part of the problem?

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 17:38
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interesting thread. as for here, most people I know who make much money (as for being succesful in the economical sense) have 8 or 9 years of basic school. all of those who went to university and are educated don't. having said that, I think I lead a much more satisfied life than those who run after the money 24/7, despite not being as "succesful" as those "primitives" or however you call them, who drive SUVs and have a big bank account but seem to be restless all the time and want more and more and more......

I am pretty happy with what I have. magyarfoci, csajok, money to some extent, a free and absolutely independent life.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 17:58
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Actually we already had a thread on 'what is success in life', let me see if I can find it.
I found it, bump it if you wish

https://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=219843

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That's for you to answer, you expected me here
Well, it's kind of personal so I hope you don't mind me talking about this...

When we shared the period of time on XT's hierarchy I realized that you were a seriously intelligent guy.... Not only intelligent but creative too. Also a thinker, a person who does over-complicate things. However I don't know which career path you have chosen. So I cannot comment on your 'success'. Also it's not my business to ask anyone how much they earn

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Sure, but does that make one better than the other? I've been thinking about this for years and I don't know. Haven't figured it out.
Like I said you're a thinker Well immediately I would say worrying about irrational things is pointless better to spend your time and energy elsewhere.

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Exactly. We have a thirst for exploration. There's a tv station dedicated to showing you new and interesting things. It's called the Discovery Channel. Discovery is fun, it's compelling.
I think this is going off track a bit here. Because this is basically a hobby. I myself spend a lot of time going through the TV guide looking for interesting documentaries and information programs to watch. But only for enjoyment.

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True. Being intelligent doesn't mean you know how to put it to good use. And a lot of people don't. They don't know what they want. They go to school, pick some field. Decide they don't like it. They switch. Drop out. Start working, don't like it. Find another job.
You just described a lot of people I know When I often hear about someone going to Uni or something I can't help but think 'I look forward to them serving me drinks or fast food in a couple years'

It could be different living in the UK though, there is loads of competetion here.

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Isn't it ironic that through thousands of years people lived their lives without much choice and now that a lot of people can choose almost every aspect in their life (what to do, where to live, who to be with), choice has become a huge problem?
I also find it interesting there is more depression in the areas of the world with the most choices and opportunities for intelligent people to make the most of what they have been given. Like USA... 'a prozac nation' ( good movie ).

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Well, the OP said "let's just keep it simple, success = money". Maybe that's part of the problem?
Not sure what you mean, elaborate
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old September 30th, 2009, 18:16
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I found it, bump it if you wish

https://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=219843

Well, it's kind of personal so I hope you don't mind me talking about this...

When we shared the period of time on XT's hierarchy I realized that you were a seriously intelligent guy.... Not only intelligent but creative too. Also a thinker, a person who does over-complicate things. However I don't know which career path you have chosen. So I cannot comment on your 'success'. Also it's not my business to ask anyone how much they earn
I don't know if I over complicate, to me it always seems I'm trying to make sense of complicated problem so that I can find a simple explanation But the world is complicated, there's no way to get around that.

I don't know if you're trying to suggest that thinking is a waste of time, but to me if anything is worth doing, it's that.

You could ask me about money and you wouldn't be impressed. And neither am I particularly impressed with people who make lots of money, so I guess that didn't really get us anywhere.

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Like I said you're a thinker Well immediately I would say worrying about irrational things is pointless better to spend your time and energy elsewhere.
What are these irrational things you are talking about?

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I think this is going off track a bit here. Because this is basically a hobby. I myself spend a lot of time going through the TV guide looking for interesting documentaries and information programs to watch. But only for enjoyment.
Why else would you? Enjoyment is what we want, isn't it?

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You just described a lot of people I know When I often hear about someone going to Uni or something I can't help but think 'I look forward to them serving me drinks or fast food in a couple years'
That is a little mean

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I also find it interesting there is more depression in the areas of the world with the most choices and opportunities for intelligent people to make the most of what they have been given. Like USA... 'a prozac nation' ( good movie ).
Well, sure. People have to think more about what they are doing and want to be doing. And that's not so trivial, neither does it guarantee a good end result..

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Not sure what you mean
Well Kajoo equates success to money and in that older thread I see he also voted this way. To me personally money is an indicator of success in the way that having a home, being healthy, being socially functional etc is an indicator that you have a basic grasp on life. Like Mate said, you need money to be able to do things, like travel. But beyond that what impresses me is personal achievement in whatever it is people dedicate themselves to. If Bentex is nuts for making video compilations, his measure of success is how good he can make them. I suppose if money is your great passion that would qualify too.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old October 1st, 2009, 09:29 Thread Starter
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interesting thread. as for here, most people I know who make much money (as for being succesful in the economical sense) have 8 or 9 years of basic school. all of those who went to university and are educated don't. having said that, I think I lead a much more satisfied life than those who run after the money 24/7, despite not being as "succesful" as those "primitives" or however you call them, who drive SUVs and have a big bank account but seem to be restless all the time and want more and more and more......

I am pretty happy with what I have. magyarfoci, csajok, money to some extent, a free and absolutely independent life.


I had 2 periods in my life - workoholic and nowadays p

When I was workoholic I worked my ass off and became succesfull guy. But several years of extensive working in business (12-16 hours daily, 6-7 days a week) made an negative impact on my batteries. They went suddenly low and were in need of charge so I went to Germany and worked as simple worker on construction site. Those 6 months in Germany were the best 6 months in my life, they gave me badly needed boost and I re-found my energy.

Besides the working on site, I was reading a lot of books and watching football. I loved Saturdays Flohmarkts. You can find there all the unnecessary thing of this World there. Every single item has an owner in Germany, even if it´s broken 25 yrs old video recorder. Germans don´t need dumpsites, they have everything in their garages. If they want to get rid of it they just put it next to the trash can.

I always bought something in Flohmarkt. When I found out it´s useless I put it next to the trash can, for someone who can re-use it. These things were usually gathered by scrubby-looking people who tried to sell them on Flohmarkts. Idiots like me bought it and the circle was closed.

Saturday used to be our Day. This night we always got drunk. We always found a good reason to celebrate something - birthdays, namedays etc. When there was no birthday or nameday we took calendar and found out that a week ago was Day of Earth. We had our reason to celebrate again.

A day after Saturday used to be Sunday . We had nothing to do because you can´t work in Germany during Sundays, it´s sacred Day for them So I woke up all my still drunk friends and took them on trip, to see all the possible football games, Oktoberfests, Canstatter Wasen, Bärenfeste and Bierfeste around the Stuttgart and God knows there is shitload of them.

I was simpleton and I liked it. Good old days.

Last edited by Kajoo; October 1st, 2009 at 10:08.
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