Turkish Influences in Hungary? - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2008, 23:24 Thread Starter
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Turkish Influences in Hungary?

Just out of curiosity, what did the Turks leave behind in Hungary after their rule?

I had a German teacher at University when I was young, her name was Hülye. It is supposed to mean something beautiful in Turkish. As we all know, it means something else in Hungarian. (I can still hear my Father's famous words....Ah,,, hulyevagy!)

Food?

Kave
Uborka Salata

Language?

Kukurica
Paradicsom

Architecture?

The Gold Fassl pub in the var has Turkish influence.

While most of us look at Turkish rule as a dark time in Hungarian history, it is curious to understand the influence Turkish rule had on our country.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 00:05
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Probably Galloping Major can tell you all about that
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 01:58
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turks reanimated the bath culture which was out of fashion in the medieval times

turks brought the most important food ingredient of our cuisine - paprika

turks brought kender - better known as ganja, hemp, weed .....

turks brought a couple of new loan words into our language - alma, kapu, oroszlán...

another food thing - rétes, basically from baklava, they use the same thin tészta for it

as for mák I am not sure if they brought it in, but possibly

birsalma (quince) they also brought

interestingly enough, the coffee house culture as we know it in Vienna and Budapest, came from somewhere else, Lemberg (Lviv) in UKraine that is. they had the first coffee house in non-ottoman europe. some dude from there brought it to Vienna and we took it later from the labanc people. it's a myth that the turks brought the kávé to Bécs. the way they drink it is different to ours anyways.

Last edited by szövkap; November 4th, 2008 at 08:44.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 03:21
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Probably Galloping Major can tell you all about that
I sure can Andor, thanks for the introduction. Pali Bacsi, before I tell you what the Turks introduced or what "Turkish influences" are in Hungary, let me preface all by staying that the Turkish occupation of one-third of Royal Hungary left a wake of innumerable devestation, de-polulation, and Muslim slavery. Hungarian slaves and babies were highly valued in the Turkish martial arts and policy to be indoctrinated in their elite jannissary corps - which formed the sword and shield of the Ottoman Empire.

The Turks only managed to conquer only one third of Hungary, Rennaissance Hungary was too powerful even for the Ottomans to wholly conquer, the Ottomans launched fifty ground campaigns against Hungary but the Turks weren't strong enough to subdue the kingdom. The prudent Magyars constructed more fotresses and castles after the Mongol invasion of 1241 than any other European nation, this powerful defensive ring of fortresses helped keep Hungarian Transylvania and Royal Hungary sovereign from Turkish control.

The Turkish minimal influences on Hungary are: coffee:



kifli (crescent rolls):

,

famous Hungarian paprika



Roman / Turkish bathing culture in Budapest.

When the glorious civilizing Romans built a major military encampment in Buda complete with a major military amphetheater, the city we know as Budapest was already famous for gushing theraputic mineral waters among Roman colonists, traders, the bourgoise, patricians and legionarries. When the Hungarians entered the scene, they succeeded the Romans and founded a marvelous spot for their capital of Buda on ex-Roman ground, the Turks soon found out how great of a landing spot this was and erected three Turkish 16th century baths that are still in operation today.

Budapest and Hungarians inherited both the Roman and Turkish bathing culture. Here's a picture of Budapest's Kiraly Baths (Royal Baths) originally built in 1565:



Here is Budapest's majestic Rudas Baths originally built in 1550 by the order of the Sultan:



For me personally, the most prominent Turkish moment in Hungary is the tomb of Gül Baba in Budapest's high end elitist pricy neighborbood of Rosadomb (Rose Hill), basically in the Hamptons of Budapest.



Gül Baba was a peace loving humanist 16th century Turkish poet and dervish in the retinue of Sulieman the Magnificent (who was half Hungarian by the way) who introduced roses to Hungary and called the "Father of Roses". Gül Baba respected the God of the Hungarians. In 1885, the Ottoman government commissioned a Hungarian engineer to restore the tomb and, when work was completed in 1914 it was declared a national monument. It is now the property of the Republic of Turkey.

Gül Baba is one of a few Turks I'll respect. I like the Hungarian Christian generalissimo John Hunyadi and his son King Matthias Corvinus:



King Corvinus's invincible mercenary Bohemian-Saxon-Hungarian army called the Black Host - that never lost a major battle - and Sulieman the Magnificent's fabulous Turkish army should have clashed. Hungary was so very powerful with Matthias Corvinus at the helm the Ottomans would surely have been dismantled.

To attest the Black Host's strenght, in 1479 this professional legion was sent into battle against 40,000 battle-hardened Turks in Transylvania, and after three hours of the fiercest fighting on record in Transylvanian and central European history, 30,000 Turkish enemy lay strewn dead on the ground and in 1485 the Holy Roman Emperor's capital (Vienna) captured in 1485.

A multitude of Turkish fortresses were besieged and sacked in the Balkans, and Ottoman territories where terrorized, the Sultan and the Holy Roman Emperor were quick to sue for peace, they couldn't contend against Hungary's all-standing professional Black Army. Hungary reached it zenieth in 1490. Somebody poisoned the greatest King of Hungary in Vienna (Corvinus made Vienna his capital after Buda) 1490, he was only 47!! Imagine how he could have turned the tables on Islam and the Ottomans had he lived into his 80s!

Corvinus conquered one third of the Holy Roman Empire and one quarter of the Balkans; he was simply years away from grasping the election like another Hungarian King Sigismund, who was both Holy Roman Emperor (King of the Romans) and King of Hungary.

King of Hungary (1387-1437) for 50 years, Emperor of the Romans (Holy Roman Emperor), King of Bohemia, Italy, Dalmatia and Croatia, Sigismund:



Hungary had a Holy Roman Emperor once, and a King of Hungary for a 50 year reign. The Emperor of vast dominions and power wanted to be buried in Hungary and Transylvania - he was a Westerner from the House of Luxembourg. Emperor Sigismund wanted to be well remembered by the Magyars, he so loved the Hungarians, His bones are buried in Transylvania.

Getting back to a battle that could have been, Emperor Corvinus aged 84 in 1526. Ahn .. what a dream titanic and epic European battle that would have been, Holy Roman Emperor Corvinus versus Caliphe Sulieman the Magnificent, it would have changed the course of History. The scope and magnitude would have been as if Charlemagne and Saladin did battle on the central European theatre.

At the Battle of Mohacs (1526), the noble gallant Hungarians could have won with that small strong Christian host pitted in battle against 100,000 Turks, only their Christian inhibition got in the way.

Last edited by Florian1972; November 4th, 2008 at 08:43.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 03:41
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Originally Posted by Pali bácsi View Post
Just out of curiosity, what did the Turks leave behind in Hungary after their rule?
nothing we didn't let them leave behind anything... They ruled for so long, and yet they really don't have anything to show for it. We didn't mix with them, convert 2 Muslim, nothing... maybe a few words or some dishes but after such a long rule it would be impossible to have absolutely nothing, but on the whole, it's almost nothing.

Én soha nem felejtem,
Magyarnak születtem!

Itt élek Európa szívében, vízilabdában mi vagyunk a császárok és igenis nálunk élnek a világ legszebb női. Magyarország, én így szeretlek!

Tehetségben nincs hiány, hiszem hogy jó lesz még a magyar foci!

RIA,RIA, HungáRIA!!!
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 04:15
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nothing we didn't let them leave behind anything...
MagyarGyerek, you should know the truth about the battle of Mohacs in 1526, it was Hungary's Waterloo. If I got the time I'll tell you about it.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 05:41
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Major, I edited out your introduction. It's just not possible to discuss this. However I appreciate you spent time writing it. Therefore I copied and saved it so you can PM it to Pali bácsi if you wish.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 05:42
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Probably Galloping Major can tell you all about that
Memories
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 06:03
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Bentex, Pali Bacsi wanted only to know what Turkish influences were in Hungary. I politely told him what Turkish influences there were in Hungary that's all I did, please be civil.

Come on Bentex keep the thread alive, I thought you were a history-buff. MagyarGyerek and others will post on this threat later, be a Magyar.

Last edited by Florian1972; November 4th, 2008 at 06:10.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 08:52
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major you forgot these pics

birsalma (quince), btw the fruit marmelade was first made of, marmelo is the portuguese word for birsalma




kender (turkish kendir), a lot of things can be done with these green dudes



rétes

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 09:32
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major you forgot these pics.


Szovkap, is really birsalma Turkish? Balogna.



Marijuana?! Hehe, you need to go to the Univ. of Califorina of Santa Cruz to get those, like I didn't go to that campus which I did.



Rétes is not Turkish, Szovkap... come on. Kifli (crescent roll) is Turkish. I agree with you on bathing culture (the Romans imported that first into Pannonia), paprika, coffee is all Turkish. Real quick thing Szovkap, you have a particular fascination with the Portuguese that I'm not going to knock.

Last edited by Florian1972; November 4th, 2008 at 09:47.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 09:52
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birsalma, turks brought the fruit and trees to Hungary.

rétes, the turks brought the way to make the tészta to Hungary. the very thin one that is, you know the one they make their Baklava and Börek with.

also the fact w elove those very sweet things comes from the turks.

marijuana, as you called it, a great plant, mankind is cultivating it for over 10,000 years now. older than wine and beer. lot more things can be done with it.

my portugal love, well, Lusophonic countries (Brasil, Portugal, Cabo Verde, Angola, Guinea-Bissau, Sáo Tomé & Principe, Mozambique, Macau, East Timor, Goa) are just great places with a lovely language and culture.
thats why I studied Lusitanistic (or was it Lunatictic?), i.e. portuguese language & literature. you surely know about the order of the knights of the temple (later knights of christus) and thats just one of the many interesting aspects of it. ive been at their castle recently, look





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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 11:53
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birsalma, the Turks brought the fruit and trees to Hungary.
Szövkap, Hungarians have had own apples trees, its been growing in Pannonia (the greater Carpathian region) for milleninia, its been indigenous since the Celtic and Roman times. The Turks brough a very few things into Hungary least of all apples.

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rétes, the turks brought the way to make the tészta to Hungary. the very thin one that is, you know the one they make their Baklava and Börek with. Also the fact we love those very sweet things comes from the turks.
No Szövkap, the Turks didn't bring in rétes to Hungary.

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Marijuana, as you called it, a great plant, mankind is cultivating it for over 10,000 years now. older than wine and beer. lot more things can be done with it.
You've gotten to become quite an truly enlightened Ottoman Turk Szövkap.

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my portugal love, well, Lusophonic countries (Brasil, Portugal, Cabo Verde, Angola, Guinea-Bissau, Sáo Tomé & Principe, Mozambique, Macau, East Timor, Goa) are just great places with a lovely language and culture.
thats why I studied Lusitanistic (or was it Lunatictic?), i.e. portuguese language & literature. you surely know about the order of the knights of the temple (later knights of christus) and thats just one of the many interesting aspects of it. ive been at their castle recently, look.
Szövkap, before you lavish your complete relish for Portugal give a glance at Hungary prior to 1526 - one of the two empires next to Poland that dominated Central-Eastern Europe. We could have defeated the Turks, but that's for another essay.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 16:17
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turks of course didn't bring rétes. I didn't say it. but they brought the technique how to make the tészta which we make the tészta with and fill it with the sweet stuff like they do with their baklava and their börek. it's exactly the same tészta 100%. only us and the turks and bulgars know how to do that tészta (and the arabs of course, after all its from the arabs originally, as are many other things, sugar, rice etc too)

apples? where did I mention apples? I said birsalma (I believe it is quince in english) which has nothing to with apples at all.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 18:39 Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Those were some interesting responses to the question.

Szovkap, I totally understood what you were saying regarding retes.

GM, thanks for the recap on history.

I was interested in understanding those things which we take for granted that my have been influenced by the Turks. The kifli was like a - duh! moment for me.

The funny thing about Coffee is it seems to get weaker the further west you go in Europe, except for the Mediterranean countries.


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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old November 4th, 2008, 21:45
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Don't know much about this history lessons, but isn't Pécs one of the places which has a decent amount of Turkish influence in its city culture (like architecture thingies)?


Like this building
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2008, 00:29
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Pécs, Eger and Budapest. also Érd, next to Budapest.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2008, 00:33
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The funny thing about Coffee is it seems to get weaker the further west you go in Europe, except for the Mediterranean countries.


Portugal and Italy have the best coffee culture in Europe.

spanish and french sucks though. in Austria and Hungary its usually good.


so the ranking is

1. Portugal & Italy
2. Austria & Hungary
3. Spain & France
4. turkish style coffee countries with the grounds in it
5. the rest who brew it in some strange filter
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old November 5th, 2008, 05:42 Thread Starter
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Pécs, Eger and Budapest. also Érd, next to Budapest.

Erd? I guess I never paid attention to Erd in that way. I Magyar guy here, his parents moved out to Erd.

Yes, about Pecs. I have been in the Mosque/Church. Isn't there a Minaret too? I believe that Eger has a minaret.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old November 6th, 2008, 12:02
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Why did you stop, it's a great topic
Turkish influence is an interesting, at the same time strange thing. Nice buildings with memories of invaders. Borat would be angry. But I personally have no negative feelings at all, it was so long ago. We have had our other, real problems recently. However I know for example Trianon would have never happened in such a harsh way as it did, if the Ottoman invasion had not caused (directly or indirectly) so much loss of our people - meanwhile the anyway largescale minorities, which had typically lived in the relatively untouched mountanious areas, in fact grew, getting the rate of Hungarians under 50% of the total population.
But I don't want to adam and eve present problems blaming the Turkish for everything
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