Doğan back as Trabzonspor coach - Xtratime Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 12:51 Thread Starter
Legend
 
Okan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2005
Location: UK
Teams: Fenerbahçe S.K.
Posts: 14,061
Doğan back as Trabzonspor coach

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UEF...Id=453863.html

Ziya Doğan has been reappointed as coach of Trabzonspor after Brazilian Sebastião Lazaroni left the Turkish UEFA Cup contenders by mutual consent.

"It doesn't make sense. It isn't even good grammar. What the hell does it mean when they disappear somebody?"
Okan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 12:58
Legend
 
yenibey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2004
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Teams: Fenerbahçe, Türkiye
Posts: 10,724
A change probably needed to be made, but it's definitely not a step forward to go back to Ziya Dogan, who has a reputation for leaving at the first sign of trouble...

"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules, and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting."
yenibey is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 12:59
*the drum drum*
Xtratime Legend
 
Zico 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2000
Posts: 42,465
Taking bets, how long will Ziya "I'm a quitaholic" Dogan last this time?

3/1 - Will finish the season but won't start next
4/1 - Will coach well into next season
7/1 - Will start next season but won't finish
10/1 - Won't finish the season

Peh, if he wasn't so weak, I'd say it's a good change, he's quite a decent manager. But the likelyhood of him sticking around for very long is slim.. I'd have preferred Aybaba back, if anyone had to return..

9
Zico 10 is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 13:08
Legend
 
yenibey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2004
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Teams: Fenerbahçe, Türkiye
Posts: 10,724
I'll take the odds that he won't make it through this season...

Trabzonspor's board spent some money on Marcelinho and Kiki M. and fired the coach after only 4 matches into the season...

They're going to expect immediate results from Ziya Dogan.

"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules, and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting."
yenibey is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 15:38
Legend
 
Cengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02 2003
Location: Isvec
Teams: FENERBAHCE SK, TÜRKIYE
Posts: 18,438
Is this a joke?

Fenerbahce büyüklügü
Ne sampiyonluk büyüklügü,
Ne Kupa büyüklüdür
O'nun büyüklügü baska bir büyüklük iste,
ADI KONAMAZ.


Islam Cupi
Cengo is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 15:44 Thread Starter
Legend
 
Okan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2005
Location: UK
Teams: Fenerbahçe S.K.
Posts: 14,061
His back alright. If Uefa is reporting it, it must be true.

I just hope that he doesn't mess things up even more.

"It doesn't make sense. It isn't even good grammar. What the hell does it mean when they disappear somebody?"
Okan is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 15:56
Legend
 
Cengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02 2003
Location: Isvec
Teams: FENERBAHCE SK, TÜRKIYE
Posts: 18,438
Sacking a coach after 4 rounds....where in the world other than Türkiye does this happen on a regular basis?

Fenerbahce büyüklügü
Ne sampiyonluk büyüklügü,
Ne Kupa büyüklüdür
O'nun büyüklügü baska bir büyüklük iste,
ADI KONAMAZ.


Islam Cupi
Cengo is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 16:12
International
 
Join Date: 11 2005
Posts: 5,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cengo
Sacking a coach after 4 rounds....where in the world other than Türkiye does this happen on a regular basis?
Brazil....
Starcraft is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 17:03
Master Debater
Xtratime Legend
 
yeniceri's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2004
Posts: 20,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cengo
Sacking a coach after 4 rounds....where in the world other than Türkiye does this happen on a regular basis?

I agree with you that it is ridiculous to sack a coach so early but this specific case was different.

He wasn't fired because of the results, I think he was fired for the comments he'd been making to the media. What coach can publicly call a teams transfer policy " funny " and expect to keep his job.

I read one of his interviews regarding how he felt about the board, now If I was a Trabzon board memeber I would have fired him that day.
yeniceri is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 18:44
Star Player
 
Waya's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Teams: Trabzonspor
Posts: 3,738
Its not like he had just 4 weeks with the team... Hes had ALL pre-season to organize things and prepare for the League and Uefa cup. At week 4, we play worse than we did at week 1.. We barely beat a Cypriot team, who everyone expected us to defeat by 3-4 goals..

Lazaroni would have been fired eventually, so why not sooner than later. Im positive we would have been taken out by Osasuna under his management, so we might as well take a gamble with someone else. Im sure Lazaroni is a good coach, but he had no future with us.

Whether or not appointing Ziya Dogan is a good decision, im not sure. Hes a great coach and we played beautifully under him, but then again, theres a good chance he will abandon Trabzon again. Hopefully, he'll settle down and get us some results.
Waya is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 18:50
Legend
 
Hagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04 2000
Teams: Galatasaray
Posts: 13,815
He didn't really seem happy at Trabzon. More like a grouch. Good decision I hope.
Hagi is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 18:57
Legend
 
Cengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02 2003
Location: Isvec
Teams: FENERBAHCE SK, TÜRKIYE
Posts: 18,438
I do not agree with any of you unfortunately.

When Lazaroni signed he had no idea that the board had plans to sell Fatih. Maybe you dont know but Fatih was like 50% of this team....we said it before but and it tunred out to be true.

Wit Fati gone Lazaroni had to change the mentality in the team....to be able to win games even without Fatih. It was pretty obvious in the first games that the Trabzon players looked kind of lost with no Fatih up front.

A great scorer and leader had left the team....you cant expect the team to not go through a phase before finding their new identity.

The board had apperently promised Lazaroni some good transfers...yes marcelinho is a good transfer, but what were they thinking when they bought a player who isnt available to play in the Uefa games?

....and Musampa just arrived!

I dont even know half of the team in the starting line up...

It wasnt a secret that this team would struggle in the beginning but eventually they would be back on track....and they won their last game even if it wasnt a convincing win.

So what's wrong with having a bad season....why always choose the easy way of sacking the coach and continue with the same players who were making the mistakes that got him fired?

Fenerbahce büyüklügü
Ne sampiyonluk büyüklügü,
Ne Kupa büyüklüdür
O'nun büyüklügü baska bir büyüklük iste,
ADI KONAMAZ.


Islam Cupi
Cengo is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 19:22
Star Player
 
Waya's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Teams: Trabzonspor
Posts: 3,738
Its kind of strange that you're backing Lazaroni, but were the first to point out how terrible the team was playing You gotta understand how embarassing it was to watch..

Not to mention the comments he was making to the media...He directly insulted some of the players. Im no professional, but im pretty sure thats not a good way to boost team morale. Maybe he should have spent more time in training..

I also thought the transfers we made were pretty good. Most of them are established players in Turkiye. You're right, i expected the attack to struggle without Fatih, but we've only scored 3 goals in 4 matches.. Besiktas and Galatasaray have played the same teams and scored more in one game than we have in 4.. With attackers like Yattara, Szymkowiak, Marcelinho, Umut and Ersen Martin (who both scored well over 10 last season) i dont think its acceptable.

You say that Fatih was the identity and leader of the team, which i agree with.. But who was the coach that pretty much made Fatih the player he is today? Sure, he was good at Gaziantep and under Aybaba, but he never scored over 20 goals a season. He also had a very bad temper problem, im sure you can remember the incident with the referee.. He's a very different player now, and I think much of this should be credited to Ziya Dogan.
Waya is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 20:57
Legend
 
Cengo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02 2003
Location: Isvec
Teams: FENERBAHCE SK, TÜRKIYE
Posts: 18,438
That team is playing bad isnt the coach's fault most of the times...i rarely critisize a coach unless they make some really big mistakes....like selecting the wrong player or playing the wrong tactics.

Lazaroni was making one big mistake which was to not play Yattar from the start in some of the games....and i critisized Lazaroni for that, but does that mean that lazaron is a bad coach because im critisizing him?

Take Daum for an example....i was his biggest supporter...and when i critisized him for something i didnt like people would immediately say "look know you dont like him either...we told you so"...

I mean there isnt a perfect coach in the world but there are coaches who have more positives than negatives and that is what makes a coach good or bad. Daum had many positves and a few negatives....like not using too many of his reserves and thereby keeping them fresh and hubngry not even in friendly games.

I dont know if lazaroni has more positives than negatives but then again we will never know for sure now that he is gone. Maybe he would have been sacked sooner or later for the continuing poor results but at least give him the chance to have an impact on the team.

You say he had a player like szymkoviak....you know very well he was no good all season long last season and he had gotten worse this year as well....why would the board sell him to ankaraspor?

Yattara is an asset but we dont know his antics behind the curtains...i doubt that there is a coach that would bench him just like that. He was benched before as well...so obviously he has some issues.

True, Fatih blossomed during Ziya dogan's era....but the issue here isnt whether ziya is good or not....the issue is that we have to change our mentality. Ziya Dogan wont make any difference if you ask me....he doesnt have Fatih...he doesnt have the old Gökdeniz...and now he doesnt even have szymek. He has Marcelinho and Musampa....but what about the rest around them?

I have this feeling that until the winterbreak the poor results will continue and Ziya Dogan will once again resign....and it wont be because of Ziya Dogan not being a good coach because i think he is a good coach if you ignore his habbit of resigning.

Fenerbahce büyüklügü
Ne sampiyonluk büyüklügü,
Ne Kupa büyüklüdür
O'nun büyüklügü baska bir büyüklük iste,
ADI KONAMAZ.


Islam Cupi
Cengo is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old September 7th, 2006, 22:15
Honourable Mention, April Photo Contest 2008
Forum Manager
Legend
 
buzyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07 2004
Teams: Galatasaray
Posts: 19,147
comedy...

/\ |) /\ |\| /\ () |
buzyb is offline  
post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2006, 00:10
Star Player
 
F0RZA KARTAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2004
Location: NYC
Teams: Beşiktaş JK
Posts: 4,773
Man I thought we were bad... Anyway, good luck with Ziya Dogan.

Hayat bize 90 dk. 45 siyah 45 beyaz.
F0RZA KARTAL is offline  
post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2006, 02:04
Rising Star
 
Join Date: 11 2005
Posts: 159
Good riddance. Something like this was inevitable for a shitty coach like Lazaroni. His coaching history is embarassing. Why Trabzon even bothered with him in the first place I'll never know(though I think it had something to do with signing Marcelinho). He had more than enough time to get a decent squad together. Hell, Halilhodzic's team was more organized than Lazaroni's.

Ziya Dogan is an improvement IMO.
Master-Marker is offline  
post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2006, 02:24
Star Player
 
Waya's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Teams: Trabzonspor
Posts: 3,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cengo
That team is playing bad isnt the coach's fault most of the times...i rarely critisize a coach unless they make some really big mistakes....like selecting the wrong player or playing the wrong tactics.

Lazaroni was making one big mistake which was to not play Yattar from the start in some of the games....and i critisized Lazaroni for that, but does that mean that lazaron is a bad coach because im critisizing him?

Take Daum for an example....i was his biggest supporter...and when i critisized him for something i didnt like people would immediately say "look know you dont like him either...we told you so"...

I mean there isnt a perfect coach in the world but there are coaches who have more positives than negatives and that is what makes a coach good or bad. Daum had many positves and a few negatives....like not using too many of his reserves and thereby keeping them fresh and hubngry not even in friendly games.

I dont know if lazaroni has more positives than negatives but then again we will never know for sure now that he is gone. Maybe he would have been sacked sooner or later for the continuing poor results but at least give him the chance to have an impact on the team.

You say he had a player like szymkoviak....you know very well he was no good all season long last season and he had gotten worse this year as well....why would the board sell him to ankaraspor?

Yattara is an asset but we dont know his antics behind the curtains...i doubt that there is a coach that would bench him just like that. He was benched before as well...so obviously he has some issues.

True, Fatih blossomed during Ziya dogan's era....but the issue here isnt whether ziya is good or not....the issue is that we have to change our mentality. Ziya Dogan wont make any difference if you ask me....he doesnt have Fatih...he doesnt have the old Gökdeniz...and now he doesnt even have szymek. He has Marcelinho and Musampa....but what about the rest around them?

I have this feeling that until the winterbreak the poor results will continue and Ziya Dogan will once again resign....and it wont be because of Ziya Dogan not being a good coach because i think he is a good coach if you ignore his habbit of resigning.
You say the team will continue to do badly with Ziya Dogan, but think things would have improved under Lazaroni? Ziya Dogan is an established manager in Turkiye and has done well with us before, so what makes you think Lazaroni would have done better? What proof do you have from our 6 matches with him? We have a better shot with Dogan..

Btw, i dont know what you're talking about regarding Szymkowiak.. Hes still with us. And when he is in-form, hes one of the best playmakers in the league.
Waya is offline  
post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2006, 02:50
Star Player
 
Waya's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Teams: Trabzonspor
Posts: 3,738
Btw, our last match with Lazaroni.. We barely beat a third division Turkish team 1-0, scoring in the 90th minute...
Waya is offline  
post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old September 8th, 2006, 09:42
International
 
D-lite's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09 2003
Location: BESIKTAS
Teams: BESIKTAS
Posts: 5,653
Trabzon used to play very good footie under Ziya Doğan-I have a feeling they'll be doing teh same again, he is a good manager without a doubt.

However I am totally against sacking coaches so early in the season-though as yeniçeri pointed out, this one seemed like a special case, there was obviously a rift between the trabzon board and lazaroni...

'The Besiktas jersey gives me incredible strength, peace, and trust.'
Gökhan Güleç
D-lite is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome