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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2007, 01:22 Thread Starter
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Ukraine


I made thread, becouse i like to know more stories about Ukraine and Ukraine nation, and minorites who live there, like Hutsul, Ruthenians or Crimea Tatars.
I had never heard for them before, few days ago i was watching some short documentary and for first time i heard about Hutsul, and when i decide to find more about them, i start to interesting more and more, not only about Hutsul but also and for Ukranie. Plus my grandfather use to work in the in Sochi (Russia) in the end of 70's and begining of 80's and he has went in Ukraine few times.
I found out that Ukraine is diveded into 24 oblasti (област-macedonian + 1 autonomus republic of Cremea (Крим-macedonian), so i put the links about them from wikipedia, reason if someone from outside, forigner, like me wants to know more about Ukraine. I hope one day i will visit you country. I got a lot of question for you, but i don't have time right now, next time.


Oblasts and autonomous republic
1 Cherkasy
2 Chernihiv
3 Chernivtsi
4 Crimea
5 Dnipropetrovsk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_Oblast
7 Ivano-Frankivsk
8 Kharkiv
9 Kherson
10 Khmelnytskyi
11 Kirovohrad
12 Kiev Oblast
13 Luhansk
14 Lviv
15 Mykolaiv
16 Odessa
17 Poltava
18 Rivne
19 Sumy
20 Ternopil
21 Vinnytsia
22 Volyn
23 Zakarpattia
24 Zaporizhia
25 Zhytomyr

Лавови Ѓорче Петров
Ф.К. Македонија Ѓорче Петров
www.lavovi.150m.com
Reason to live for - F.K. Makedonija Gj.P., the pride of our city, Gjorche Petrov
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2007, 01:34
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Hutsuls are Ukrainians, as are Ruthenians, Lemkos, and etc, so they're not a "minority". Alot of the Ukrainian folk culture and traditions are even based around Hutsuls.

As for Tatars - They weren't always there ; They went to Krym when the ottoman empire was around.

As for questions, ask away
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2007, 09:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True-Kozak
Hutsuls are Ukrainians, as are Ruthenians, Lemkos, and etc, so they're not a "minority". Alot of the Ukrainian folk culture and traditions are even based around Hutsuls.

As for Tatars - They weren't always there ; They went to Krym when the ottoman empire was around.
Kozak is right, hutsuls and lemkos are the words Ukrainians call themselves in particular regions. :smileani: And I've doubtful who are Ruthenians you both have mentioned... What about Tatars, yes, they've come to Crimea in 13th century but this has nothing common with the Ottoman empire. :rollani:

By the way, there has already been a thread devoted to the sights of our great Motherland (http://www.xtratime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206488). Maybe things should get arranged in a way that some information and discussion were stuck at the top of our forum??

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2007, 14:36
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Originally Posted by Kostja
about Tatars, yes, they've come to Crimea in 13th century but this has nothing common with the Ottoman empire. :rollani:
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2007, 16:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostja
And I've doubtful who are Ruthenians you both have mentioned...

Kostja...


Ruthenians think they are the Real YKPAIHIAH and believe they inherit what was Rus'...

Unfortunately for them they ended up somewhere in the Karpaty and eventually outside the borders of today's YKPAIHA...

We have them here in the USA and those who have not assimilated after 5 generations of living in the country coutinue to tell every YKPAIHIAH that they are *wrong* - and they are right!

Bwahahahahahaha
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2007, 18:25
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Many Rusyns/Ruthenians in America are self-Russified. I think half are Greek Catholic half Russian Orthodox.

R.I.P Ari
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old March 5th, 2007, 00:59
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2007, 22:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True-Kozak
Hutsuls are Ukrainians, as are Ruthenians, Lemkos, and etc, so they're not a "minority". Alot of the Ukrainian folk culture and traditions are even based around Hutsuls.
No, not really. I can tell you that besides a couple of hatchets on the walls in my house there is nothing Hutsulske in my Ukrainian folk culture.

Kozakachok, I've met my share of vuikiv in my lifetime. They care about being Ukrainian as much as Tatars in Crimia. Just go skiing around Mukachevo in the winter time and see how much they enjoy your book-learned Ukrainian
All they care about is making money of the tourists, as they should since they need to eat
I love it there though, buy the time I get down the mountain I'm always drunk from hot wine you get at the stops on the way down.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2007, 09:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamok
All they care about is making money of the tourists, as they should since they need to eat
It is an arguable item, but anyway you can't accuse people for their intention to earn money unless they follow laws. :rollani:

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2007, 16:36
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There is nothing to argue, as I said they should make money. Money = Food
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2007, 01:34
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Originally Posted by dynamok
No, not really. I can tell you that besides a couple of hatchets on the walls in my house there is nothing Hutsulske in my Ukrainian folk culture.

Kozakachok, I've met my share of vuikiv in my lifetime. They care about being Ukrainian as much as Tatars in Crimia. Just go skiing around Mukachevo in the winter time and see how much they enjoy your book-learned Ukrainian
All they care about is making money of the tourists, as they should since they need to eat
I love it there though, buy the time I get down the mountain I'm always drunk from hot wine you get at the stops on the way down.
What do you mean, they'll like it cos' I learned Ukrainian? Or they'll think I'm an idiot? Or what .

I know many, many people of that descent, and they're all extremely patriotic.
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2007, 16:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True-Kozak
What do you mean, they'll like it cos' I learned Ukrainian? Or they'll think I'm an idiot? Or what .

I know many, many people of that descent, and they're all extremely patriotic.
They're Ukrainian is not the Ukrainian you learn, it's very different. Myself, being a born Ukrainian speaker, have a hard time understanding them. Lots of Hungarian in their language.

As far as patriotic. I'm sure every one would be a Patriot if they have food on the table and money in their wallet, but patriotism you're referring to is more of an idea that comes from Ukrainian immigrants then from Ukrainian citizens. To Ukrainian immigrants it's more of a Nationalism then Patriotism.
It's easy for us here (USA, Canada, etc) talk about Ukraine and what the people there should do and think.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2007, 17:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamok
It's easy for us here (USA, Canada, etc) talk about Ukraine and what the people there should do and think.
Well said.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2007, 19:54
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Originally Posted by dynamok
They're Ukrainian is not the Ukrainian you learn, it's very different. Myself, being a born Ukrainian speaker, have a hard time understanding them. Lots of Hungarian in their language
Ah ok
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2007, 20:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamok

As far as patriotic. I'm sure every one would be a Patriot if they have food on the table and money in their wallet, but patriotism you're referring to is more of an idea that comes from Ukrainian immigrants then from Ukrainian citizens. To Ukrainian immigrants it's more of a Nationalism then Patriotism.
It's easy for us here (USA, Canada, etc) talk about Ukraine and what the people there should do and think.
I just ment I know people who are Lemko or w/e in blood, but are all proud of beign Ukrainian, not Lemko.

Your very right about the diaspora stuff though. However, the diaspora plays and played a huge part in Ukrainian affairs. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church was almost 100% funded by the diaspora during USSR times when it was forcibly liquified. The OUN/UPA recieved alot of funds from the diaspora, as did people on the Majdan during the Orange Revolution (not directly, just for food to be there, etc). My moms cousin (I don't know what that makes him to me) was one of PORAs co-founders, the political party.

I think Ukraine would be a better country if all the Ukrainians who were "patriotic" living abrodd went back to live in Ukraine and contribute, but thats just me. I don't know if its possible now, but I'd hope in 5/10 years it will be. Theres population decline problems there; that could beo ne of the main solutions; make a program helping the diaspora people who go back to Ukraine work into society.

Last edited by Unnamed; March 29th, 2007 at 20:10.
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2007, 07:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True-Kozak
I think Ukraine would be a better country if all the Ukrainians who were "patriotic" living abrodd went back to live in Ukraine and contribute, but thats just me. I don't know if its possible now, but I'd hope in 5/10 years it will be. Theres population decline problems there; that could beo ne of the main solutions; make a program helping the diaspora people who go back to Ukraine work into society.
Please don't - the realty prices are already above any senses. If diaspora comes back, they'll probably force me to move in the opposite direction.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2007, 11:38
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Originally Posted by Kostja
Please don't - the realty prices are already above any senses. If diaspora comes back, they'll probably force me to move in the opposite direction.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2007, 17:49
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Yea, I heard they're alotttt, especially in Kyiv.
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2007, 19:16
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Originally Posted by True-Kozak
Your very right about the diaspora stuff though. However, the diaspora plays and played a huge part in Ukrainian affairs. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church was almost 100% funded by the diaspora during USSR times when it was forcibly liquified. The OUN/UPA recieved alot of funds from the diaspora, as did people on the Majdan during the Orange Revolution (not directly, just for food to be there, etc). My moms cousin (I don't know what that makes him to me) was one of PORAs co-founders, the political party.
The problem with fundings from diaspora is that they want something in return. I hear it a lot in church (I'm Ukrainian Orthodox). "We're giving them money and they elect Yanukovych" - this kind of crap. These people don't realize that Ukraine is 15 years old, it's going to time. Plus just because diaspora supports Wester Ukraine it doesn't mean that people in Easter Ukraine don't have a say in how to run a country. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Yanukovych supporter. But I'm not a Yuschenko supporter anymore either.
Then you have people who want to unite Ukrainian church. How is this different then when the comies try to kill the church? Basically the people should have a choice what god they serve. What's next we'll get Judaism, Baptism, and what ever other ISMS under one roof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by True-Kozak
I think Ukraine would be a better country if all the Ukrainians who were "patriotic" living abroad went back to live in Ukraine and contribute, but thats just me. I don't know if its possible now, but I'd hope in 5/10 years it will be. Theres population decline problems there; that could beo ne of the main solutions; make a program helping the diaspora people who go back to Ukraine work into society.
Ukraine will be a better country ones the old guard is dead. You have a parliament and a president all ex-communists trying to run a democratic country. Yeah, most of them now say that they were forced into it, but still they all have Sovok mentalities.
We don't need all Ukrainians to move to Ukraine. What would be the purpose? Let everyone contribute from where ever they live, but be patient.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2007, 20:24
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I don't know, I just want to move there after University to "contribute". I know its not nearly as well off a place to live as USA or Canada, but somethings pulling me to live there, almost like I need to. It's not like here but at the same time, it isn't Africa... I just think if people from the diaspora brought a new, (still Ukrainian), fresh mentality to Ukraine it would fuel some change, if even small.

"Plus just because diaspora supports Wester Ukraine it doesn't mean that people in Easter Ukraine don't have a say in how to run a country. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Yanukovych supporter. But I'm not a Yuschenko supporter anymore either."
Hmmmm.... I know it might of worked like that earlier, but I know at least with us, we send alotttt of $ to Eastern Ukraine, to Kryvyj Rih for our family.... Our family in west Ukraine is well off, actually.. Even though I know thats rare, usually..


PS - What part of UA are you from?
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