Naprijed BH! The Practical Ideas for a Better BiH Thread - Page 2 - Xtratime Community
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post #21 of 67 (permalink) Old March 18th, 2014, 23:58 Thread Starter
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Why? For drugs tourism?
It may sound crazy, but this has apparently generated a lot of money in Colorado, and not just from tourism: lots of companies in the marijuana industry (if that isn't an oxymoron) have decided to plough investment (and taxes) into that part of the US as a result.

Whether it's a good long-term plan is another matter - there are lots of potential downsides, not least massive losses in productivity and the possibility of creating a big tobacco or booze-type monster lobby - but it is an option.

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post #22 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 00:14
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Talking about radical reforms of the state are OT in this thread because macro reforms like that (however desirable or otherwise) are way beyond our control. Save those ideas for your book .
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post #23 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 00:20
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It may sound crazy, but this has apparently generated a lot of money in Colorado, and not just from tourism: lots of companies in the marijuana industry (if that isn't an oxymoron) have decided to plough investment (and taxes) into that part of the US as a result.

Whether it's a good long-term plan is another matter - there are lots of potential downsides, not least massive losses in productivity and the possibility of creating a big tobacco or booze-type monster lobby - but it is an option.
Sarajevo the new Amsterdam

In all honesty however I simply don't think it would benefit the country too much. Especially regarding accession to the European Union
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post #24 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 00:20
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Whether it's a good long-term plan is another matter - there are lots of potential downsides, not least massive losses in productivity and the possibility of creating a big tobacco or booze-type monster lobby - but it is an option.
Sounds like a Dubya scare tactic

I don't think sensible people would let work mix with pleasure of they are committed to sacrifice in order to succeed. If they wanna smoke weed everyday and slack off on the job they're probably doing it right now and will rationally: either stop if they see it interferes with income or keep going if they reckon they can do their job on the pipe (John Lennon ).

We act out of self interest, most of us are rational - I don't see the fear.

But this way, they need to do it through the black market like the good ol' days of alcohol prohibition, paying twice as much and making criminals out of themselves and their friends. Not to mention directly funding all those prisons, crimes, narco-bosses, corrupt special police, their bosses in office and the army of bureaucrats/lawyers/judges needed to process all this needless shit out of your wallet.

I thought a flower-power hippie like you would at least be with me on this one monte?

Last edited by Ero; March 19th, 2014 at 00:27.
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post #25 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 00:35
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In short here's my macro reform idea as outlined above:

Legalising marijuana and limiting government interference in the private sector (thus eliminating the very purpose of forming a lobby to pressure government for special privileges in the first place) is a great macroeconomic plan for all citizens of BiH to embrace and proselytize

Both measures would ensure a better, more prosperous place and both would further the cause of freedom for every individual regardless of them being bosniak, croatian or serbian, or swedish or what have you. These ideals would then attract more tourists who might even, eek, invest in the place and do it in a few months, instead of 5+ years and the endless bureaucracy and blind theft that goes along with it.

discuss

Last edited by Ero; March 19th, 2014 at 00:41.
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post #26 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 06:20
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Originally Posted by YellowBlueCoke View Post
Sarajevo the new Amsterdam

In all honesty however I simply don't think it would benefit the country too much. Especially regarding accession to the European Union
will unfortunately never happen in any EE country. people there not used to freedom. and a legalization would be too much of freedom for them at once.

plus, what has that got to do with the access to EU? are Holland, Portugal or Czech Rep bothered by Brussels because of their liberal drug laws?

then, wherever it was legalized, statistics always say the same thing: no increase of consumption or consumers in any of those places, rather au contraire. thus, a loss of productivity is unlikely. another au contraire, those who would consume it anyway, don't have to waste their energy to hide from the police and can become more productive.

Last edited by szövkap; March 19th, 2014 at 06:26.
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post #27 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 06:42
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post #28 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 06:49
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yeah mate, a scary thought actually that I agree with you here
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post #29 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 08:29
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Ero szovkap

BiH is in the same mess as Croatia, central planning, too many laws and regulation for bussiness, massive taxes and very big public sector with big welfare expenses and monopoly on pension, education and healthcare plus debt because they spend even more then they can steal.

It makes everything more expensive, slower and less easy for the customer.

Plus, why not experiment and legalise the ganja? Make Sarajevo the new Amsterdam and the čevabdžinice would increase business 200% because of the munchies

NEMA PREDAJE!

Last edited by mandzo; March 19th, 2014 at 09:21.
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post #30 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 09:15
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Ero szovkap

BiH is in the same mess as Croatia, central planning, too many laws and regulation for bussiness, massive taxes and very big public sector with big welfare expenses and monopoly on pension, education and healthcare plus debt because they spend even more then they can steal.

It makes everything more expensive, slower and less easy for the customer. Plus, why not experiment and legalise the ganja?
Isn't there a monopoly on those three things in almost every country on earth?
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post #31 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 09:25
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Isn't there a monopoly on those three things in almost every country on earth?
Not exactly, but it is no surprise that politicians will endorse those policies which guarantee them and their comrades more power, more control and more access to your money

What is a surprise is that people have not wake up yet

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post #32 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 14:04 Thread Starter
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Ero szovkap

BiH is in the same mess as Croatia, central planning, too many laws and regulation for bussiness, massive taxes and very big public sector with big welfare expenses and monopoly on pension, education and healthcare plus debt because they spend even more then they can steal.

It makes everything more expensive, slower and less easy for the customer.
Meaningless in the context of this thread, unless you are an influential politician or political scientist. Not practicable or actionable by any of us here.

Any material on redesigning the state goes in the Lonac.

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post #33 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 15:49
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you can redesign a state through grass roots movements montedia, the great American republican dr. Martin Luther King Jr. teached us this, but what kind of state would we demand is the big question....

NEMA PREDAJE!
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post #34 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 16:01 Thread Starter
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you can redesign a state through grass roots movements montedia, the great American republican dr. Martin Luther King Jr. teached us this, but what kind of state would we demand is the big question....
But that's precisely the point. It's too controversial. Some of us would like a state resembling Estonia (limited government, low taxation). Others would like a Sweden-style state. Or something resembling the US or Brazil or Russia or China or Singapore. So for this thread it's a non-starter.

Conversely, everyone can agree on the need for education, on the need for people not to go hungry, on the need for a better environment.

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post #35 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 18:50
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mandzo makes a good point. You can start a movement at the grass roots level and make it into a social order.

BiH is plagued by a massive public sector which has destroyed the economy and made it impossible for small businesses and entrepreneurs/investors to flourish.
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post #36 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 19:40
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mandzo makes a good point. You can start a movement at the grass roots level and make it into a social order.

BiH is plagued by a massive public sector which has destroyed the economy and made it impossible for small businesses and entrepreneurs/investors to flourish.
So what? Are you saying that privatization is impossible? There are many supply-side policies the government of BiH could undertake to change this pretty easy and as far as I'm aware it's being done on some level.
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post #37 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 19:49
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So what?

So you have 25% unemployed, another 50% underemployed, no growth, terrible debt, a Ponzi scheme at the center of retirement funds, inept/corrupted public sector and a black market that's bigger than the actual market.

That's "what" dude.
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post #38 of 67 (permalink) Old March 19th, 2014, 20:06
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So what?

So you have 25% unemployed, another 50% underemployed, no growth, terrible debt, a Ponzi scheme at the center of retirement funds, inept/corrupted public sector and a black market that's bigger than the actual market.

That's "what" dude.
That can be attributed to another hundred of economic factors though. Simply having a public industry being prevalent in the nation isn't the sole reason for its disastrous economic state of wellbeing.
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post #39 of 67 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2014, 00:44 Thread Starter
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mandzo makes a good point. You can start a movement at the grass roots level and make it into a social order.
.
He or anyone else is welcome to elaborate with precision on how to start such a movement. But meaningless abstract discussions about the nature of the state stop here. We all know that Bosnia and other countries in the region are appallingly corrupt. They could do with a lot of reform at state level. However, none of us as individuals can provide solutions to the problem which we ourselves can enact. Plus, the diagnosis of this problem, let alone the prognosis or the remedy, is not even close to being universally agreed upon.

This thread is about solutions which are practical and within reach.

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post #40 of 67 (permalink) Old March 20th, 2014, 06:43
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Universally agreeing on something doesn't make it right, or moral, nor is that an avenue to prosperity or growth. We've seen that from the massive brainwashing collectivist social experiments various movements have tried to implement over the last century and how badly they've failed.

Local, decentralized government, breaking the power structure, liberal reforms, the end of bureaucracy and economic freedoms are principles most rational people would agree upon if only they had basic economic education.

This starts at the grass roots level, bottom up
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