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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old October 19th, 2003, 18:56 Thread Starter
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National team

Maybe this is a stupid topic I'm starting here and there's a possibility it will only bring more stupiud arguments with it but I'll ask my question anyway:

How do the Serbs and Croats that live in BIH feel about the Bosnian national team, ofcourse they cheer for it but would they ever ever consider to play for it? Or do they prefer playing for Croatia and Serbia? What if the Bosnian NT played in Banja Luca for example (or another city where the majority is Croat) would there be many ppl cheering for it?

Like I said maybe a stupid topic for some of you but I'm a little curious abt this.

Cheers

Himna BIH

Mojoj dragoj BIH - BHFanaticos

Ne mogu te oni mrzit koliko te mi volimo
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old October 20th, 2003, 04:29
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I would like to see some games being played at Banja Luka or Mostar but i don't think those 2 stadiums meet UEFA and FIFA standards.

To answer one of your questions, Vladan Grujic plays for the NT and so does Mirko Hrgovic. Now they are just 2 i am going to name, i think it is obvious that there is people who would play for the NT but it is only realistic to expect there to be ppl who wouldnt want to do it for personal resons or whatever. I say whoever wants to should be welcomed wth open arms and who doesnt oh well, you know what they say 'Koga nema bez njega se i moze'

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old October 20th, 2003, 17:27
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I'm a Bosniak, but its pretty evident IMO where most of them stand when it comes to this.

When we played Yugoslavia in a friendly, I think a lot of things were answered.

For most part the Serbs in the crowd were cheering for Yugoslavia, not all, but most.
Not only cheering but singing war time songs, putting 3 fingers up and doing a lot of things thare are not respectful at all.

I think less Croats in the country feel this way, but again there is a section that will cheer for Croatia over BIH.

I think a good question to answer this would be...if BIH can be split up tomorrow, and the RS joins Serbia and Hercegovina joins Croatia would any of the two sides say no, in a referendum. I would think a large majority would be infavour of the seperation.

Now this isn't saying that no Serbs or Croats love BIH, or wouldn't want to play for it, but majority wouldn't IMO. THis could change though, times change.

Hrgovic and Grujic are great, they had the option of going to play for Serbia, Hrgovic for Croatia, they chose BIH.

I love these players. I respect them. I'm glad they feel BIH is home, and that they feel most close with it.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old October 20th, 2003, 23:31
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Well you have to keep in mind that war wounds are still fresh and that only 8 years ago the various ethnicities of B&H were at each other's throats. So it's only understandable when such things happen. For example, in a recent poll I think that something like 45% of Bosnia's total population declared that they don't feel like Bosnia is their country. Who cheers for whom at soccer games is just a reflection of other, much more serious problems. But Bosnia is not immune to this. If Bosnia and Serbia were to play a friendly in Novi Pazar, I'm sure half the local crowd would be cheering Bosnia and jeering S&M. There was even an incident in a women's volleyball game between Serbia and Turkey played in the Raska (Sandzak) area where virtually the entire crowd was waving Turkish flags and supporting the turks and booing the home team. And this is in Sandzak, where there was no war. So it's really not that surprising when it comes to Bosnia. However, if Bosnia was to play a game in Banja Luka against, say, Germany or Sweden or some other third country, I don't see why the local crowd wouldn't support them.

Last edited by Andrija PFC; October 21st, 2003 at 02:25.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 02:15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ED123
I'm a Bosniak, but its pretty evident IMO where most of them stand when it comes to this.

When we played Yugoslavia in a friendly, I think a lot of things were answered.

For most part the Serbs in the crowd were cheering for Yugoslavia, not all, but most.
Not only cheering but singing war time songs, putting 3 fingers up and doing a lot of things thare are not respectful at all.

I
I didn't know that was done...I am sorry to hear you had to endure that:depress:

But if it's any consolation, you are a better team than them now.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 05:56
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I can only speak for Croats from my city and region. 95% naturally support Croatia, and most players today who are Croats from BiH would chose to play for Croatia rather than BiH.

This may sound weird or whatever, but this is the case. I support Croatia over BiH, born and raised in Mostar. I do accept BiH as my country of birth, but my nationality is Croatian.

When the Croatian team plays, I feel like they're my countrymen. We are the same, same blood, same history, same anthem, same love for our homeland.

The socio-political factors of the last decade do play a large part in this, but myself and my family have been Croatian first and foremost since I can remember.

Many BiH Croats chose to play for Croatia (Zivkovic, Tomas, Stanic, Maric, Kovac. Basketball stars Planinic and Sesar. Tennis pro Ljubicic etc.), and I'm proud of all of them.

Equally, I respect players like Piplica and Papac for chosing to play for BiH. I do want the BiH NT to win, but I support Croatia with all my heart.

Another issue Croats have with BiH is that the country seems conjured to them. No history of togethrness, no flag, no anthem, no real history which unites the people of BiH. I feel no emotions listening to the BiH anthem, do not feel anything looking at the flag, which was designed 5 years ago or something. It isn't a nation of the same people. There are 3 peoples in BiH.

I do not want Mostar or western Hercegovina to join Croatia. Most Croatians did not want this, they voted overwhelmingly against it, they voted for a free and sovereign BiH. I do however want equal rights for all 3 peoples and BiH to stay as nation, albeight internal differences, a kind of self government for each constituent people can be imposed.

I do not want to be forced to speak "bosnian" and all that crap either...


And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Rudyard Kipling
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 06:42
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Quote:
Originally posted by ED123
I'm a Bosniak, but its pretty evident IMO where most of them stand when it comes to this.

When we played Yugoslavia in a friendly, I think a lot of things were answered.

For most part the Serbs in the crowd were cheering for Yugoslavia, not all, but most.
Not only cheering but singing war time songs, putting 3 fingers up and doing a lot of things thare are not respectful at all.

And then you paid back that respect of yours by pulling hundreds of Serbian fans out of their cars and hospitalizing them.

One 15, or 16 year old kid lost his eye and several others were in critical condition.

Thanks for mentioning that though.

I don't blame your fans though, that idiot Piksi should have known what he's getting himself involved in when he agreed to a friendly with Bosnia.

S R B
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 06:53
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Ero, I understand.

Croats have a place to connect themselves to, Croatia.

Serbs have a place, Serbia.

and thats why Bosnia was originally created, for the Bosniaks (Muslims), since we wanted that place too.
It didn't quiet work out that way, but in a way it did.

The reality of the situation was that there are a lot of Serbs that live in the territory that we took with the indepence, and another reality came with that, and that is that we have to give rights, and equal ones, to peoples that make up a large portion of the country.

So if there was enough Chinese in Canada, we may have to give them equal rights too.

but its obvious: Croats connect themselves to Croatia, Serbs to Serbia and Bosniaks (Muslims) to Bosnia.

Mihajlovic

The whole idea for the game was dumb. Tension is still to high.

Any person though who is dumb enough to come to an enemy country, or even if they live in it, and sing war time songs, and say racist remarks, should be beat to a pulp because they are just dumbasses and dont deserve to live another second.

If I went to Serbia, and did that during the game, I would obviously except the same.

Its sad, but again, reality of the situation.

The injuries are obviously devestating, and obviously I dont feel very good about it, it was a mistake on both sides to ever set this game up.
We see violence in soccer all the time without this past history, I cant believe they thought nothing would happen here, really really dumb.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 07:16
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Quote:
Originally posted by ED123

So if there was enough Chinese in Canada, we may have to give them equal rights too.

I don't know about where you live...Chinese Canadians do have equal rights where I live. Infact, when ever I use a cash machine in Vancouver, I have a choice of English, French, Chinese or Punjabi when selecting the language I want to use...

As for BiH...If war doesn't break out again... a hundred years from now...all the people of BiH would probably identify themselves as Bosnians...except for the Hercegovci...who would never call themselves Bosnians...

Peace on Earth
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 14:48 Thread Starter
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I understand everything you say in there Ero and I understand you feel Croat and all but why didn't you then vote to be a part of Croatia? Don't get me wrong I'm very happy you made this decision but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Himna BIH

Mojoj dragoj BIH - BHFanaticos

Ne mogu te oni mrzit koliko te mi volimo
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 16:07
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What I meant is, maybe we change the official languages to Chinese as well. (that is something huge)

Maybe that province where there is a lot of them changes to fit their needs a lot more, etc. The province starts have many Chinese only schools, and most of the teaching is only Chinese. Just like Quebec is mostly French.

Maybe even a Chinese premier.

So just from that you get a huge spiral, and a lot of changes.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 16:08
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This is just my opinion:

What you have here is a country forced on different ethnic groups in order to show the world that the powers can take the side of Muslims in order to justify the offensives in other areas of the world. (Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestinians). That Balkan region is a lab experiment with BiH being a test case on how to control the different ethnic groups but also keep this same thing from spreading meaning religous war in other parts of Europe.

I personally think that based on the way things have been handlled in this region the various ethnic groups should have a right to vote for an independent state or to join up with another country.

We will continue to hear about improvements in relations between the various countries of the former Yu. The reason for this is the fact that they are segragated. So whether it is Croatia which has very few other ethnic groups or Kosovo which has become predominately Albanian or BiH which is in essence three countries or Slovenia the reason for the lack of violence is segragation.

The biggest instability in the Balkans can be attributed to Macedonia which we know has problems.

Now to the question of Sports everyone has the right to cheer for whoever they want. Look at everyone that posts here they cheer for a team that is not the National team of the country they live in as the 1st and foremost choice. Within this board you will not find a poster that cheers for the other ethnic groups teams. The various teams have either the Serbian tri-color, Croatian checkerboard or the BiH flag as a distinction of where they stand so it is imbred in the society.

As for the best team or who the better team is in the region maybe in a few years when things simmer down there could be a tournament to determine the best as unlike Oluja I thnk that SCG is the best even though I was not born in its current borders.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2003, 23:53
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Quote:
Originally posted by adnan
I understand everything you say in there Ero and I understand you feel Croat and all but why didn't you then vote to be a part of Croatia? Don't get me wrong I'm very happy you made this decision but it just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't think that BiH has removable borders. Its a soveriegn state with rights to territory and territorial integrity.

The borders were drawn in 1946, so they should stay as were since then. Breaking parts of BiH down and assimilating them into other states is not the way to solve any problems. We can still be Croats, but we know that we're from BiH...


And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Rudyard Kipling
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2003, 05:00
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I think we are starting to stray of the topic at hand, lets minimise the politics and maximise the sport!

ED 123 can i pls ask how old you are? No offence but some of your understanding of things being discussed and some of your comments lack a bit of coherance and common sence.

above all i suggest we shut this topic down

"I wanted to say we are like seljaks, not seljaks"
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2003, 05:52
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ok, we will lock this up, it isn't going anywhere good.


and Bosanac: I dont know what you are reffering to, you never pointed out which thing I said that didn't make sense, but we can talk about all of that over PM.

Nobody else mentioned anything, and if I did make a mistake, I'm sure somebody would have pointed it out.

Anyways, I will lock this up.
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