Is English football in a sad state? - Page 2 - Xtratime Community
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old September 3rd, 2015, 22:57
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Well there are 6.54 billion foreigners out there, tis not a surprise.

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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old September 3rd, 2015, 23:02
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Well there are 6.54 billion foreigners out there, tis not a surprise.
Good first step is admitting it.

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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old September 3rd, 2015, 23:38
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Thierry used to be cool. :/

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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old September 11th, 2015, 16:46
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It's basically comes down to they aren't good enough. If they were they would be getting chances abroad. If the English players were good enough, there wouldn't be so many foreigners in the league at all.
Any league that demands a certain level of standard of player will struggle to fill it with players of one particular nation. Players playing for Fulham in the Championship make more than players playing for Rayo Vallecano for example.

Standards overall could be better, but it's not like every Spanish player currently active in La Liga would keep their place against equivalent highly paid foreign premiership players.

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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old September 11th, 2015, 16:49
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There are still more English players playing in the premiership than any other nation. So at least for now some of them are good enough. But of course some of the top players from other nations are better than average English players, that's simple common sense.

If there are say, 150 active English premiership players, then the best players of say, Serbia, should of course be better than the 151st best English player.

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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 12:28 Thread Starter
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Only 81 English players used this past weekend out of 278 players used in total in the EPL. That figures is just 29% and is once again on decline from last year. This with the fact that there are also very few English players abroad in other leagues means a bleak future IMO.

Rob your observation above may well be true in some cases regarding the best player of Serbia being better than the 151st Englishman, but it is hindering the English game and at grass roots level as now very few players can make the grade. I often hear if they are good enough they will make it, but I believe there are several players who do not just because they never get the opportunity to play at the top level.

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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 12:44
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If they are good enough they will break though. Again, going back to the Serbia comparison. The English Championship is of a higher standard than the top division in Serbia, to play at the top level, Serbian players must perform well enough to earn a move to a top league. It's the same for Championship players. They need to earn the right to play in the premiership, through either promotion or earning a transfer.

If you're good enough you'll get there, like Jamie Vardy, Callum Wilson, Charlie Austin, Danny Ings etc have in the last couple of years.

Besides, if they do end up in the Championship, then it's hardly a bad level anyway. Players leave top flight Spanish and French clubs to play there.

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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 12:54 Thread Starter
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Its nice naming examples of players who have made it. Name the 1000s of skilled players who never made it, oh right you cant because we forget about them.

One thing that helps players break through is gaining experience at the top level even if it is through trial and error, many players just never get this chance due to the nature of the EPL these days.

The NT will never be successful again I am pretty much sure of that, despite currently qualifying through an easy group.

As for the 2nd part, would you want NT players to come from the championship? A decade down the line that's what will be happening

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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:10
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I wouldn't mind NT players coming from the Championship if they were good enough, no. The Dutch NT gets players from it's own league, and outside the top few teams the quality is probably worse than the Championship.

The premier league prides itself on having the best players in the world. Only so many of those players are English. For the ones that do make it, playing against top international players week in, week out should improve them as players themselves. For a central midfielder for example, even against lower table teams they will be tested against the likes of Cabaye, Van Ginkel, M'Vila, Song, Kouyate, Wijnaldum, Sissoko, Fletcher, Gueye, Capoue, Inler etc.

It's the perfect proving ground, and someone like JonJo Shelvey, is capable of raising his game to accommodate that. If the player can't raise his game to get to that level, are they good enough anyway?

And we had no foreign players in the 70's and 80's, dominated Europe and the national team was still shit.

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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:11 Thread Starter
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Interesting article from last year. Particularly the Case Study

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z9wjq6f

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post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:13 Thread Starter
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I wouldn't mind NT players coming from the Championship if they were good enough, no. The Dutch NT gets players from it's own league, and outside the top few teams the quality is probably worse than the Championship.

The premier league prides itself on having the best players in the world. Only so many of those players are English. For the ones that do make it, playing against top international players week in, week out should improve them as players themselves. For a central midfielder for example, even against lower table teams they will be tested against the likes of Cabaye, Van Ginkel, M'Vila, Song, Kouyate, Wijnaldum, Sissoko, Fletcher, Gueye, Capoue, Inler etc.

It's the perfect proving ground, and someone like JonJo Shelvey, is capable of raising his game to accommodate that. If the player can't raise his game to get to that level, are they good enough anyway?

And we had no foreign players in the 70's and 80's, dominated Europe and the national team was still shit.
Even still it is just nonsensical that someone English can accept their own league being less than 30% English. That's all I am saying!

That's why the EPL for me, is going downhill. Just all media hype.

Very little about the English premier League these days is actually English. The players, the coaches, the owners... just about still got English referees for now.

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post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:21
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Alright Farage, the Bundesliga is also packed full of foreign players and foreign coaches yet you wouldn't say that is going downhill, would you?
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post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:21
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The aim of the premier league was never really to be English. It was to provide the premier league competition in the world. If English players aren't good enough to play a significant part of that, then so be it. I want to watch the best footballers in the world against each other every week. If I want to watch English/British players, I can still watch the championship.

Plus Wales are doing well, and most of their squad is Championship based.

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post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:23 Thread Starter
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Bundesliga was 50% last year which is about where top leagues should strive to be. Enough balance either way.

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post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:30
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Bundesliga was 50% last year which is about where top leagues should strive to be. Enough balance either way.
At the end of the day, EPL clubs function as businesses and don't really have the interests of Englishman percentages in their business plans. They want good players who bring in revenue and ticket sales, if that player is English then he's English, if not then what can you do?
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post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:33 Thread Starter
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Yes but I'm losing interest. It's not helping the NT for the future and European results show it's not really helping the club's either

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post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:37
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The competition itself is great though. I've absolutely loved the last couple of seasons. Results in Europe have been poor (maybe clubs are knackered from high octane football), but the games and level of competition are great.

A league where a mid table side like Stoke have team sheets with Bojan, Shaqiri, Van Ginkel, Afellay etc on, certainly interests me. Hell even teams like Sunderland and Newcastle who are really struggling, have some fairly blockbuster players.

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post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 13:39 Thread Starter
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Yeah you must named a number of Stoke players who have absolutely flopped. 3 of them in Serie A

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post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 14:14
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Bojan is class, Shaqiri was only at Inter for 6 months, Van Ginkel didn't flop at Milan as far as people were saying last season (just injured a lot) and Afellay didn't make the grade at Barca, but still has obvious ability.

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post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old September 21st, 2015, 14:15
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Basically, their equivalent team in any other league has nothing like those calibre of players.

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