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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 09:19 Thread Starter
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Portugal tournament

Our NT will assemble today and start their preparations for the friendly tournament which will be held in Portugal between january 18 - 20th. Brane will be leading an B team, becouse not many teams are willing to leave their players to this tournament which is not in the official FIFA calendar.

----------------------

Jutri se bo znova zbrala nogometna reprezentanca Slovenije. Tokrat zaradi prijateljskega turnirja na Portugalskem, ki bo od 18. do 20. januarja. Slovenija bo igrala najprej s Slovaško, nato pa še z zmagovalcem oziroma poražencem tekme med Portugalsko in Bolgarijo. Selektor Branko Oblak bo na turnir odpeljal B reprezentanco, nogometaši pa bodo v Ljubljani oddelali še petdnevne priprave. Reprezentanti bodo trenirali v Spodnji Šiški, in sicer dvakrat dnevno na igrišču z umetno travo. Na turnir Vale de Tejo bodo Oblak in njegovi izbranci odpotovali naslednji ponedeljek. Več o pripravah in tudi zdravstvenem stanju v reprezentanci bodo povedali jutri, ko bo ob 14. uri v hotelu M tiskovna konferenca.

B reprezentanca Slovenije za turnir na Portugalskem:

Keepers: Samir Handanovič (Udinese), Vasja Simčič (Gorica).

Defenders: Janez Aljančič, Branko Ilič (oba Olimpija), Boštjan Cesar (Dinamo), Matjaž Lunder (Drava), Matej Mavrič (Molde), Andrej Rastovac (Koper).

Midfielders: Marko Božič (Mura), Sebastjan Gobec (Publikum), Andrej Komac (Gorica), Aleš Mejač (Mura), Saša Ranič (Gorica), Luka Žinko (Istres).

Forwards: Sebastjan Cimerotič (Olimpija), Milan Rakič (Maribor), Aleksandar Rodić (Gorica), Borut Semler (Bayern).

SLOVENIJA


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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 09:23
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Are the new guys players that came over from the U-21 selection or are they older players who in normal circumstances aren't good enough for the NT?
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 10:08 Thread Starter
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Mostly they come from the junior ranks yes, except for Rodic, who just got the Slovenian passport and will now play his first international game for us. He plays his football here for Gorica.
I'm somewhat sceptical about him, not about his skills as he's a decent or ever a very good forward, but about the wholle naturalization thing. I'm really against it, we see too much of this. :thmbdown:

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 10:23
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While I agree with your point that some nations overdo naturalizing, imo it also depends on people's individual history and the players you have for that position.

So to get to my Q:

What's this guy's story?
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 11:34 Thread Starter
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Well he's Bosnian a few years ago he came to play here and with his good performances the idea came up about making him our citizen. That's about sums it up.

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 11:36
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Originally Posted by Walter BC
Well he's Bosnian a few years ago he came to play here and with his good performances the idea came up about making him our citizen. That's about sums it up.
So he does not have Slovenian roots (Slovenian mother, father,...) in some way?
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 13:53 Thread Starter
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No. That's why I'm not in favour of that. It would be a wholle different story if he had some link to here but no, not like this.
We have some pretty bad experiences with this kind of naturalization, the most famous case was Arriel McDonald, a wonderfull basketball player but wouldn't give a shit about playing for our NT once he got his citizenship.
I don't know really, I'm not too delighted about this, but if he'll turn out to be a good deal ...

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 13:59
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Okidoki, I'm with you now.

What I was wondering though: is it a genuine possibility that you'll have more of these similar cases in the (near) future? I'd suspect that there are a lot of (teenage) kids playing now with either a double nationality or with mixed roots, making them somehow eligible to play for say either Bosnia and Slovenia or Croatia and Slovenia. Is that true?

Last edited by binswhacker; January 10th, 2005 at 14:05.
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old January 10th, 2005, 14:05
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I'm glad to see a Maribor player in the NT although I don't know why Milan Rakić is listed as a forward. He's an offensive midfielder, he was already screwed once when Kek put him in a position he's never played before - a defender . If Rakić cathes the performance he delivered last spring, he's definetely a NT material. He's good on the ball, he has a good pass and a very good shot from the distance. I hope Oblak won't screw his chances to make a breakthrough by puting him in a place of a striker.
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 06:42 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binswhacker
Okidoki, I'm with you now.
Right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by binswhacker
What I was wondering though: is it a genuine possibility that you'll have more of these similar cases in the (near) future? I'd suspect that there are a lot of (teenage) kids playing now with either a double nationality or with mixed roots, making them somehow eligible to play for say either Bosnia and Slovenia or Croatia and Slovenia. Is that true?
Of course there is a possibility, it's happened before and it will in the future. Having players with mixed routs, or even with all their roots coming from places of ex Jugoslavija is nothing new to our team. I mean players like Zahovic, Acimovic, Karic and the likes are all like that. But that's OK, atleast they were born or atleast raised here. But to bring in a player, give him the passport especially for the purpose of playing football, with no conection otherwisse, well I'm not exactly all for it.

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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 08:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter BC
Of course there is a possibility, it's happened before and it will in the future. Having players with mixed routs, or even with all their roots coming from places of ex Jugoslavija is nothing new to our team. I mean players like Zahovic, Acimovic, Karic and the likes are all like that. But that's OK, atleast they were born or atleast raised here. But to bring in a player, give him the passport especially for the purpose of playing football, with no conection otherwisse, well I'm not exactly all for it.
But everybody does that.

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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 08:51 Thread Starter
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But everybody does that.
So?

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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 08:56
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Originally Posted by Walter BC
So?
So what's the problem if we naturalize a player or two?

Caipirinha: 6 €
Brazilian NT shirt: 70 €
Flight to Rio de Janeiro: 400 €
Seeing Italian NT kicked out of major tournament: PRICELESS

Hatelist:
Juvemerdus
Partizan
Associazione Culo Milan
Lazio
Barcelona de mierda
Real de puta Madrid
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 10:08 Thread Starter
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So what's the problem if we naturalize a player or two?
Exactly that! :smileani:

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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 11:29
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So what's the problem if we naturalize a player or two?
It's a matter of principle, one in which I follow Walter due to previous experiences on the same subject with Belgium. In the nineties, we naturalised three players - Luis Oliveira, Josip Weber and Branko Strupar. A process after which I'm not so pro it anymore, mostly since these players often don't have the emotional tie with the country and the team that Belgians (and Slovenians) do have.

Oliveira didn't have that imo or maybe not as much as Strupar and Weber. Though I must admit that I tend to nuance here because Weber and Strupar - due to their immense popularity at that time - were "adopted" bij the Belgian public opinion like someone would do with say a son in law.

Secondly, I believe that it's a signal that puts out a lack of full trust in the youth internationals. Our current NT-coach wishes to naturalise Congolese striker Mohammed Tchité who now plays for Standard. Tchité is interested and interesting in that this guy has potential (but still needs to confirm that potential), but first of all I'm kind of doubting his tie with Belgium as well as the fact that we have quite some young promising strikers with Belgium U-21. Then my Q is: why risk jeopardizing their development on NT-level for a guy that's a) ok, but not that great either and b) who mostly seems chosen on short term because he's an Emile Mpenza-type striker. It doesn't necesarily have anything to do with roots, because I consider immgrants sons like Messoudi and Haroun who have lived in Belgium (nearly) all their lives, speak good Dutch,... as genuine Belgians, whereas I have my doubts about a guy like Tchité who only lived here for two years or a guy like Malbranque who as far as I know, maybe never lived in Belgium, but just happens to have a double passport.

Having said this, I'm willing to admit that there are nuance differences from case to case which make some perhaps more acceptable to the general public than others. Take Manaseh Ishiaku for example, the new striker we bought with Brugge this month. He came to Belgium a few years ago as a refugee for internal conflicts in Nigeria and went through a lot of administration trouble, because one of the guys who needed to assist him was involved in some sort of fraud sceem. Since he has shown sincere gratitude for the spontaneous help he received from several Belgians, married a Belgian girl in the meantime and showed great integration will, I don't doubt him at all when he claims in the press that he feels like Belgium's a second home nor the sincerity of his wish to play for Belgium should they call him up. However, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier on, I still have a bit of reserve in that this would perhaps be ok if we could use his type of player, though I see building a team around the Belgians around more as an priority than just starting naturalizing left and right and risk bringing in guys who are often just in our of opportunism and who couldn't be bothered when push comes to shove.
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2005, 11:39
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Originally Posted by Walter BC
Samir Handanovič (Udinese), Vasja Simčič (Gorica).

Saša Ranič (Gorica)

Aleksandar Rodić (Gorica)
Congrats to Vasja, Saša and Aleksandar for their first call!

PS: Where is Kokot?? :irritate:
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2005, 06:46 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binswhacker
It's a matter of principle, one in which I follow Walter due to previous experiences on the same subject with Belgium. In the nineties, we naturalised three players - Luis Oliveira, Josip Weber and Branko Strupar. A process after which I'm not so pro it anymore, mostly since these players often don't have the emotional tie with the country and the team that Belgians (and Slovenians) do have.

Oliveira didn't have that imo or maybe not as much as Strupar and Weber. Though I must admit that I tend to nuance here because Weber and Strupar - due to their immense popularity at that time - were "adopted" bij the Belgian public opinion like someone would do with say a son in law.

Secondly, I believe that it's a signal that puts out a lack of full trust in the youth internationals. Our current NT-coach wishes to naturalise Congolese striker Mohammed Tchité who now plays for Standard. Tchité is interested and interesting in that this guy has potential (but still needs to confirm that potential), but first of all I'm kind of doubting his tie with Belgium as well as the fact that we have quite some young promising strikers with Belgium U-21. Then my Q is: why risk jeopardizing their development on NT-level for a guy that's a) ok, but not that great either and b) who mostly seems chosen on short term because he's an Emile Mpenza-type striker. It doesn't necesarily have anything to do with roots, because I consider immgrants sons like Messoudi and Haroun who have lived in Belgium (nearly) all their lives, speak good Dutch,... as genuine Belgians, whereas I have my doubts about a guy like Tchité who only lived here for two years or a guy like Malbranque who as far as I know, maybe never lived in Belgium, but just happens to have a double passport.

Having said this, I'm willing to admit that there are nuance differences from case to case which make some perhaps more acceptable to the general public than others. Take Manaseh Ishiaku for example, the new striker we bought with Brugge this month. He came to Belgium a few years ago as a refugee for internal conflicts in Nigeria and went through a lot of administration trouble, because one of the guys who needed to assist him was involved in some sort of fraud sceem. Since he has shown sincere gratitude for the spontaneous help he received from several Belgians, married a Belgian girl in the meantime and showed great integration will, I don't doubt him at all when he claims in the press that he feels like Belgium's a second home nor the sincerity of his wish to play for Belgium should they call him up. However, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier on, I still have a bit of reserve in that this would perhaps be ok if we could use his type of player, though I see building a team around the Belgians around more as an priority than just starting naturalizing left and right and risk bringing in guys who are often just in our of opportunism and who couldn't be bothered when push comes to shove.
Great post Bins! :thmbup: You pretty much said everything I have to say about this matter.

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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2005, 15:45
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Originally Posted by binswhacker
Having said this, I'm willing to admit that there are nuance differences from case to case which make some perhaps more acceptable to the general public than others. Take Manaseh Ishiaku for example, the new striker we bought with Brugge this month. He came to Belgium a few years ago as a refugee for internal conflicts in Nigeria and went through a lot of administration trouble, because one of the guys who needed to assist him was involved in some sort of fraud sceem. Since he has shown sincere gratitude for the spontaneous help he received from several Belgians, married a Belgian girl in the meantime and showed great integration will, I don't doubt him at all when he claims in the press that he feels like Belgium's a second home nor the sincerity of his wish to play for Belgium should they call him up. However, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier on, I still have a bit of reserve in that this would perhaps be ok if we could use his type of player, though I see building a team around the Belgians around more as an priority than just starting naturalizing left and right and risk bringing in guys who are often just in our of opportunism and who couldn't be bothered when push comes to shove.
That's exactly why I am not apriori against naturalizations. If this Rodic guy accepts Slovenia as his new homeland, if he feels like Slovenian citizen and if he will proudly wear our NT shirt, then why not? On the other hand, if he just uses our NT to make a name for himself in order to get some international football and/or better transfer, then I am against it. But we can't know which one is it, unless we give him a chance.

I don't know how he feels about our NT, does he consider himself a Slovenian citizen or not, so I can't judge this naturalization.

Caipirinha: 6 €
Brazilian NT shirt: 70 €
Flight to Rio de Janeiro: 400 €
Seeing Italian NT kicked out of major tournament: PRICELESS

Hatelist:
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Partizan
Associazione Culo Milan
Lazio
Barcelona de mierda
Real de puta Madrid
Manchester Shitnated
Liverfool
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Panathinaikos
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2005, 16:57 Thread Starter
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Than I think we agree that we'll just have to wait and see how he turns out. I mean not only his performances but also the atitude. Than if he's allright, sure why not, otherwisse kick him out as far as possible.

On the more related matter, I really wonder how will Brane put the team togather with all those new faces?

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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old January 18th, 2005, 06:48 Thread Starter
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Today at 16h our young, B NT will play their first match of the Vale de Tejo tournament in Portugal. Their opponent will be Slovakia, who will also have a much younger squad than in november.
What really matters is that our bojs play a good tournament for a change and that Brane gets a few usefull players which he could latter include to the A NT.

Here's the line up Brane says will walk out on the pitch today:


------------------------Handanovic--------------------------

-------Aljancic-----M.Mavric------Cesar-----Ilic(Ranic)--------

Komac----------Zinko------------------Semler-----------Gobec

---------------------Rodic-----------Cime---------------------

Brane expects a lot from the forward duo Rodic/Cime, but I don't like where he placed Semler. We'll see.

Good luck today bojs! :thmbup:

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