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post #1 of 537 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2003, 08:01 Thread Starter
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Discuss other leagues here

Since we get carried away often, and we like to talk about all those foregin leagues I thought we could dedicate a special thread to that theme. So in here we post all that is related to the matter. What do you think, if you all like it maybe Nina could sticky it?

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post #2 of 537 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2003, 11:38
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Good idea Walter Now we can discuss how Man Utd. will kill Arsenal for the EPL title this year

Now on the subject of Man U and Arsenal, did anyone see the burst up with all the players. I know it is quite old now but I dont remember it being discussed. What really pi$$ed me off was after the game, Arsene Wenger said all this crap about Ruud and how he is always looking for 'provocation' and diving :fero:

What are all your opinions on it, and also the Viera red card??
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post #3 of 537 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2003, 11:59 Thread Starter
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Well Ruud is everything and even more than Venger said. He's a cheat. It's a pitty that such a great player uses this dirty tricks. That ofcourse doesn't mean Arsenals players had the right to act like they did, and it is fair that they got punished for it. The punishment was somewhat hush though, I don't exactly remember who got what but it was hush. And it always happens to Arsenal that get all the big punishements while the others can walk away with much worst incidents.
Oh yeah, we will be champions again this year!

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post #4 of 537 (permalink) Old October 7th, 2003, 12:21
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Man U. will of course be the Champs again this year Walter.

I think Viera deserved the second yellow, as if it happened in any other match, it would be the same result. But what were all the harsh punishments handed out I know that Arsenal were fined but I didnt here any other punishment. Also Walter, we better be careful, Money Bags (Chelsea) are doing very well also, they could steal the title.
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post #5 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 08:04
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Vieira (what's with everyone misspelling his name anyway?!? i'm not just refering to you, but people really cannot get his name right) is one of the most sleaziest, dirtiest players on the planet! And he deserves every card he gets! If not for this foul then for all those he made in the past!
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post #6 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 11:15
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Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
Vieira (what's with everyone misspelling his name anyway?!? i'm not just refering to you, but people really cannot get his name right) is one of the most sleaziest, dirtiest players on the planet! And he deserves every card he gets! If not for this foul then for all those he made in the past!
Just like Montero and Davids, right? Is that why Juve was interested in buying Vieira? To add another butcher to their brilliant collection?

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post #7 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 13:00
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Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
Vieira (what's with everyone misspelling his name anyway?!? i'm not just refering to you, but people really cannot get his name right) is one of the most sleaziest, dirtiest players on the planet! And he deserves every card he gets! If not for this foul then for all those he made in the past!
I agree Nina. I dont like Vieira (I didnt care how I spelt it before as long as you all understood who I was talking about) at all. I really believed though that he did deserve the second yellow and the dismissal from the match.

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Originally posted by OAnimal
Just like Montero and Davids, right? Is that why Juve was interested in buying Vieira? To add another butcher to their brilliant collection?
OAnimal, do you have something against Montero and Davids or just against Juve and Italian Clubs?? I can understand against the clubs, but Davids IMO is a very good player.

Regarding the different leagues, for me, I would have to say I dont enjoy watching Serie A as much as La Liga or the English Premier League. I would say that Serie A is more of an attractive style of play where as La Liga and EPL is more 'rough'. However, I really dont mind as long as Inter win, unlike this week when we lost to AC Milan 1-3 :fero:
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post #8 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 13:14
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Originally posted by NZS

OAnimal, do you have something against Montero and Davids or just against Juve and Italian Clubs?? I can understand against the clubs, but Davids IMO is a very good player.
I don't like the way italian teams play football in general. IMHO, they play too defensive and thus too boring. It takes more intelligence to be a good creative player than to be a good defender (I can explain this if someone is interested), thus the Italians seem to have chosen the easiest way to obtain good results. Montero is one of the dirtiest defenders I have ever seen in my life. Regarding Davids, he sure is talented player, but way too violent to earn my respect. Sometimes he seems like he has sniffed some cocain before the match. Both fit perfectly into that Juve team of cheaters (last example, Zambrotta openly admitted to have dived to earn the decisive penalty against Bologna on Sunday).

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post #9 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 13:21
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I know what you mean in some aspects. If there was ever an attacking game of Serie A though I am sure it would be great. I also understand that it does takle more skill to be a Midfielder or Striker than a Defender, so there is no need to explain that As for the players diving and so on, I dont approve. Especially if they 'openly' admit to it after the game Davids IMO is a great player. I havn't seen him do anything excessively rough before so I cant comment on his rough play.
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post #10 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 18:49
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Originally posted by NZS
I also understand that it does takle more skill to be a Midfielder or Striker than a Defender, so there is no need to explain that
It takes more skills to be a striker than a defender?!? Come on, midfielders or a good playmaker does it all for the strikers (usually). Besides a striker has an easier job since it's not that tragic if he misses once ... he'll get a new chance eventually into the game, a nice pass or a re-bound of a gk/defender. Defender cannot make mistakes, not even one! Striker can also be only one and can work alone, which defenders cannot. The back line (usually consisted of 3 or 4 men) has to be well organized and have a lot of discipline.

As for attacking football ... no wonder you can't find it, you are watching Inter! The most boring club, not only in Italy but in the whole world. Try Lazio or Chievo or Roma (on a good day)

Quote:
Originally posted by OAnimal
I don't like the way italian teams play football in general. IMHO, they play too defensive and thus too boring. It takes more intelligence to be a good creative player than to be a good defender (I can explain this if someone is interested), thus the Italians seem to have chosen the easiest way to obtain good results. Montero is one of the dirtiest defenders I have ever seen in my life. Regarding Davids, he sure is talented player, but way too violent to earn my respect. Sometimes he seems like he has sniffed some cocain before the match. Both fit perfectly into that Juve team of cheaters (last example, Zambrotta openly admitted to have dived to earn the decisive penalty against Bologna on Sunday).
It's not like they defend all the time They can attack, believe me, maybe you people just have to watch more than a couple of games a year and preferably stay away from the ITA NT. Anyway, we all have different tastes (and no, none is better than other, just different!) ... what would happen to the world if all the men prefered blonds or only darkheads? You are making me feel like I made a crime or something for liking calcio. From the moment that I mentioned it on.

You have missed Materazzi or maybe you just don't know him to well to think that Montero is the dirtiest defender Indeed dear Montero is quite rough, or should I say was since he's unfortunately aging. The difference between the fouls he made (and by this I'm not saying that I approve of) and the ones Vieira makes is that that were the last options or chances to take away the ball from an opponent, Patrick just runs over people all over the picth, the opponent having the ball or not.

Davids takes his job a bit too passionately sometimes He's eager and determined and has grinta all over the face when coming on the picth. He reminds me on the toys I used to play with, where you had to wind up a bunny or a car and the bunny/car was like really "intense" and could hardly wait to be released and when you did it flashed of. I like his expression, love it, wouldn't trade it for nothing, like most of juventinis.

Zambrotta. Do correct me if I am wrong ... was he the first player that dived? No. Was he the last player that dived? Certainly not. He just admitted it. Not like all others that do dive and then when asked they say they tripped or something. At least he's honest. And if you would know him better (I really am glad that you don't), as a person I mean, you could realize why he admitted it. He must be, beside Pires&DP&Zizou (hope you are not reading this Martin ), the nicest chap on the pitch out there. Ronaldo of course never dives Brasil never cheated, right? I still remember that last juicy incident in the Turkey-Brasil game in the 1st round of the WC. Further on, the ref was standing 2 or 3 meters away and saw the whole thing. Untill the ref decided, Zambrotta was either risking a yellow (or even red) or could get a penalty, 50%-50%. Paparesta, who is considered one of the best refs and no, not only in Italy, made the final call! You can spare me the elegations of Rubentus and so on ... where do you think we live, in the 9th century?!

Last edited by nina; October 9th, 2003 at 07:11.
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post #11 of 537 (permalink) Old October 8th, 2003, 21:38
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Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
It takes more skills to be a striker than a defender?!?
I didn't say this, NZS did. However, it is usually true. A striker usually has better ball controlling and dribbling skills than a defender.

Quote:

Come on, midfielders or a good playmaker does it all for the strikers (usually). Besides a striker has an easier job since it's not that tragic if he misses once ... he'll get a new chance eventually into the game, a nice pass or a re-bound of a gk/defender. Defender cannot make mistakes, not even one! Striker can also be only one and can work alone, which defenders cannot. The back line (usually consisted of 3 or 4 men) has to be well organized and have a lot of discipline.
Midfielders and playmakers are usually the most skilled players in the team, that was my point (read my post more carefully). Defenders cannot make mistakes, but they do, otherwise there would be no goals. To dribble past a defender is more difficult job than prevent someone to dribble past you, don't you think so? In the latter case, you can always make a foul like Montero. In the first case, if you do not posess enough football intelligence, speed, ball controll, nothing can help you get past a defender with a ball.

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As for attacking football ... no wonder you can't find it, you are watching Inter! The most boring club, not only in Italy but in the whole world. Try Lazio or Chievo or Roma (on a good day)
That was low.
I only cheer for Inter if only italian clubs are taken into consideration. Otherwise, I couldn't care less. However, although Inter currently plays a boring football, they won their titles fair and square, unlike some teams, which win a lot of titles under dark shadows of referee bribing suspicion.

Quote:

It's not like they defend all the time They can attack, believe me, maybe you people just have to watch more than a couple of games a year and preferably stay away from the ITA NT. Anyway, we all have different tastes (and no, none is better than other, just different!) ... what would happen to the world if all the men prefered blonds or only darkheads? You are making me feel like I made a crime or something for liking calcio. From the moment that I mentioned it on.
I have a lot of respect for you, nina, because you usually post interesting posts, make valid points, and don't write things without having good arguments. From the beginning I thought you were more oriented towards attacking football (specially as a Cime fan) and thus I was quite surprised to find out that you were Juve and ITA NT fan (although they are not the most defensive teams in the world, they are still defensive). Of course, you have every right to cheer for whoever you want, I never denied that. It's just that I despise italian football (just football, I am not a nationalist, racist or anything similar) and usually cannot help myself against making some provocative comments about it. I even have a friend or two who cheer for ITA and Juve and we always have a juicy word-fights about defensive football and referee bribing. So, I suppose I should say I am sorry.

Quote:

You have missed Materazzi or maybe you just don't know him to well to think that Montero is the dirtiest defender Indeed dear Montero is quite rough, or should I say was since he's unfortunately aging. The difference between the fouls he made (and by this I'm not saying that I approve of) and the ones Vieira makes is that that were the last options or chances to take away the ball from an opponent, Patrick just runs over people all over the picth, the opponent having the ball or not.
Materazzi is getting close to Montero, yes, just as Vieira to Davids.

Quote:

Davids takes his job a bit too passionately sometimes He's eager and determined and has grinta all over the face when coming on the picth. He reminds me on the toys I used to play with, where you had to wind up a bunny or a car and the bunny/car was like really "intense" and could hardly wait to be released and when you did it flashed of.
That was my point too.

Quote:

Zambrotta. Do correct me if I am wrong ... was he the first player that dived? No. Was he the last player that dived? Certainly not. He just admitted it. Not like all others that do dive and then when asked they say they tripped or something. At least he's honest.
If he would be really honest, he would say it to the referee on the pitch. That kind of "honesty" doesn't mean anything.

Quote:

Ronaldo of course never dives
Never saw him dive. Did you?

Quote:

Brasil never cheated, right? I still remember that last juicy incident in the Turkey-Brasil game in the 1st round of the WC.
That was shameful, I agree. Although this is no excuse, this incident didn't help Brazil in any way. If you are refering to Rivaldo's acting, Brazil was already 2:1 up at that point. If you are refering to the penalty outside the box, if the game would end 1:1 (as it should), Brazil would still win the group. However,this was not my point. My point was, that Juventus gets most of suspicious referee decisions into their favour (at least in Italy and at least in the games, which highlights I see and that's why I can't stand them even more than other italian teams). And then their officials come on to the TV and say:"We are not like the others, we never whine about the refereeing". Of course you morons, why would you whine about the refereeing if you get most of the suspicious calls into your favor??

Quote:

Further on, the ref was standing 2 or 3 meters away and saw the whole thing. Untill the ref decided, Zambrotta was either risking a yellow (or even red) or could get a penalty, 50%-50%. Paparesta, who is considered one of the best refs and no, not only in Italy, made the final call! You can spare me the elegations of Rubentus and so on ... where do you think we live, in the 9th century?!
No, footballing mafia didn't exist at that time yet.

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Last edited by OAnimal; October 8th, 2003 at 21:53.
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post #12 of 537 (permalink) Old October 9th, 2003, 07:30
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Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
It takes more skills to be a striker than a defender?!?
Quote:
Originally posted by OAnimal
I didn't say this, NZS did. However, it is usually true. A striker usually has better ball controlling and dribbling skills than a defender.
I did say that and I wont deny it. IMO, Yes, a striker does have much more skill than a defender. The only exception in my eyes to this is Roberto Carlos who has a great defensive/attacking game. I dont mind whether or not you agree with me, that is the way I see it.

Quote:
Originally posted by OAnimal
Midfielders and playmakers are usually the most skilled players in the team, that was my point (read my post more carefully). Defenders cannot make mistakes, but they do, otherwise there would be no goals. To dribble past a defender is more difficult job than prevent someone to dribble past you, don't you think so?
Yes I agree here also. Midfielders are the most important players in the team and also the most skilled. As for the defenders, I have nothing against them, but I believe that a striker must be more skilled or the team will fail (Look at Inter)

Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
As for attacking football ... no wonder you can't find it, you are watching Inter! The most boring club, not only in Italy but in the whole world. Try Lazio or Chievo or Roma (on a good day)
Quote:
Originally posted by OAnimal
That was low.
Indeed that was low. :fero: Also, if I want to watch attacking football I will watch another league, not bother to wait around for the likes of Lazio, Chievo or Roma. It is either Inter or nothing :depress:

Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
Zambrotta. Do correct me if I am wrong ... was he the first player that dived? No. Was he the last player that dived? Certainly not. He just admitted it. Not like all others that do dive and then when asked they say they tripped or something. At least he's honest.
Quote:
Originally posted by OAnimal
If he would be really honest, he would say it to the referee on the pitch. That kind of "honesty" doesn't mean anything.
I am with OAnimal here, if he was really honest, he would have told the referee during the match, not the media afterwards, all that does is stir up the other teams fans and causes more hatred towards the ref. Also, like I said before, I am really against diving, I dont like it and I think that it takes alot of 'sting' out of the game. When you have a team that take the lead or equalise through a penalty were the player has dived, it wrecks the whole game in my perspective.

To end all this 'madness' I will say nothing more on the subject of which position takes more skill to play. Unless I am pushed to do so
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post #13 of 537 (permalink) Old October 10th, 2003, 07:45 Thread Starter
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Nina I don't get how can you call Vieira dirty, sleazy and so on player, while in the same breath you say how Davids, Montero are tip top players, who know how and when to tackle, and of course they do it in the best possible manner.
Vieira is rouhg player no doubt about it, commits a lot of fouls, but is in now way worst than Davids. They both do their best to help their clubs. Just don't use double standards there Nina in the future.

Diving is unexcusable, no matter where it happens, by whom it is done. It's just so that the Italians are the most famous divers you can find out there. Admiting it after the match is so hypocrital, I mean the game is allready won than, why not just be quiet. It doesn't mean anything, and it cartainly doesn't say anything about the diver. I think that a video tapes should be used after the match and all the divers that escaped unpunished during the match should be severly punished afterwards. The punishements should be extreme!

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post #14 of 537 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2003, 07:07
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In that game (Juve-Bologna) there were two penalties awarded, one for Bologna and one for Juve. Bologna got it first and it was not a penalty either, so my guess would be that the ref grabed the first choice he saw to call one for us as well and therefor balance the "fairness" sheet.

OK, so maybe I'm a bit biased, that still doesn't change the fact that Vieria is more sleazy than Davids. Post a poll in the debate forum and ask people, you'll see the result for yourself. I'm sorry I cannot explain it better.

NZS, how can you say then that Seria A has no attacking football if you only concentrate on Inter and don't bother to watch the rest?

OAnimal, did it ever occure to you that the refs "like" us because we are the best (according to past results) team in the home league and we cannot do anything about it? Why is it that it's never the ref's fault, but everybody just assume that we bribe them? The "star" labeling is and will remain the world of football and not just with Juve bu with other great football sides as well. OT: are you friends members of Juve's official fan club Koper?
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post #15 of 537 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2003, 07:31
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Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981
NZS, how can you say then that Seria A has no attacking football if you only concentrate on Inter and don't bother to watch the rest?
I never said they had no attacking football, I was insinuating that they are much more defensive than offensive and instead of waiting for a match with Roma, Chievo or Lazio to be televised, I would switch to another league. I am well aware that when the Italians play attacking football they are great, just look at the NT against Azerbaijan on saterday. They played with 3 forwards and that is what I would call good football. Nina, can you please stop knocking Inter, I dont bag Juve
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post #16 of 537 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2003, 07:49 Thread Starter
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NZS a great game coming up this weekend in the EPL Arsenal - Chelsea. Now we'll see what's their real worth, untill now they haven't faced a good side if we exclude Liverpool which are in miserable form. I just can't stand Chelsea, I hope we'll trash them, tear them appart!:fero:

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post #17 of 537 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2003, 11:03
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Yes, I am looking forward to this one Of course I am going for Chelsea (No doubt you would do the same if it was Man U - Chelsea) It is televised live here, like most EPL games and so I will watch that game or another as there are always two at one time I wouldn't mind having a high scoring game, say like 3 - 3 or so, but thats just because both teams have the talent to score beautiful goals (Henry, Crespo, Mutu, Pires etc.) Anyway Walter, I am going to watch the live draw in 15 minutes and see who we get Good luck for the match on saterday
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post #18 of 537 (permalink) Old October 13th, 2003, 11:06
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Quote:
Originally posted by nina1981

OAnimal, did it ever occure to you that the refs "like" us because we are the best (according to past results) team in the home league and we cannot do anything about it? Why is it that it's never the ref's fault, but everybody just assume that we bribe them?
Whenever I watch Serie A highlights and there is an unclear situation at the Juve game, about 80% of these calls are in Juve favor. Yes, it might be, that it's something the referees do without being bribed, but in any case it looks suspicious to say the least.

Quote:

The "star" labeling is and will remain the world of football and not just with Juve bu with other great football sides as well. OT: are you friends members of Juve's official fan club Koper?
I think they are not, but I am not 100% sure. Why do you ask, are you member of that fan club?

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post #19 of 537 (permalink) Old October 14th, 2003, 08:56
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Quote:
Originally posted by NZS
Nina, can you please stop knocking Inter, I dont bag Juve
I didn't realize I did I'm sorry! It would be for the best if we avoid Seria A and you and Walter just keep discusing EPL

Quote:
Originally posted by OAnimal
I think they are not, but I am not 100% sure. Why do you ask, are you member of that fan club?
Seveda!
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post #20 of 537 (permalink) Old October 14th, 2003, 13:50
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I didn't realize I did I'm sorry! It would be for the best if we avoid Seria A and you and Walter just keep discusing EPL
Damn, I was just about to start a discussion how the Tora Bora Talibans beat the Kabul Tigers by 2:1 in yesterday's Afganistanian Professional Football League derby, thanks to a suspicious penalty awarded by referee Husein...

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Last edited by OAnimal; October 14th, 2003 at 14:42.
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