Vinicius Junior - future Golden Ball winner or another fail? - Xtratime Community
View Poll Results: predict his future
3+ Ballon d'Or 1 20.00%
1 or 2 Ballon d'Or 0 0%
world class player 2 40.00%
good but won't stay in superclubs for long 1 20.00%
back in Brazil by age 25 1 20.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 20:50 Thread Starter
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Vinicius Junior - future Golden Ball winner or another fail?

he definitely has crazy talent but he hasn't quite put it into action yet

some teammates are worried about his partying in Madrid:

https://www.foxsportsasia.com/footba...odriguez-bale/

others think he should already set his sights to Ballon d'Or:

https://www.goal.com/en/news/viniciu...s1e3a7i8aljlnq

anyway, one thing is for sure...he is already super rich and doesn't have to exert himself if he doesn't want to...at age 19 he's set for life:

https://www.capology.com/soccer/play...alary-profile/

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 21:02
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 21:21
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Voted 3+ Ballon d'Or. Staying positive!
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 21:35
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Anybody remembers Robinho?

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 21:37
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Not suprised a Brazilian likes to party, but I'm not worried about his potential, last season he showed he has every skillset a top top winger needs except the experience, and most key, the finishing ability. His shooting is really weak (besides occasional golazo), but his 1 on 1 dribbling is ridicolous, he ridiculed Barca in last seasons clasico, and most importantly, he is fantastic at creating for his teammates. Unselfish and tricky winger, very useful. But its worrisome if that first article is true, that football isnt his main focus.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 21:49
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As a Madrid fan, sure it would be great for him to succeed...but look at so many other Brazilians that flame out..including Neymar.

They prefer to party, country over club even for meaningless friendly, always have injuries, etc...

He's a super poor kid from the flavela with more money than his entire entourage will be able to spend in a lifetime now and living the life...

We will see what happens.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 22:21
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It's one of these many players that really shouldn't be at Real Madrid or one of these clubs.

In an ideal world he would have stayed at his home club for a couple of years at least, then move to an European club that actually will use him (and doesn't already have Bale, Asensio and Isco and then add Hazard ready to play that position), and maybe if he makes it go for a big move.

It's just insanity to have all these players in the same team.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old September 12th, 2019, 22:28
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It's one of these many players that really shouldn't be at Real Madrid or one of these clubs.

In an ideal world he would have stayed at his home club for a couple of years at least, then move to an European club that actually will use him (and doesn't already have Bale, Asensio and Isco and then add Hazard ready to play that position), and maybe if he makes it go for a big move.

It's just insanity to have all these players in the same team.
Asensio unfortunately is now finished. Hard to come back from a devestating injury like that.

Isco isn't a winger and anyways, his career is also on the downward spiral unfortunately. Barely played last year and already is injured.

Hazard and Bale are his competition and we all know Bale is constantly injured and will be again.

Madrid thinks very highly of him though.

Add Mbappe next year will be in Madrid I think is the game plan, and then that's another spot on the wing locked up as he's in a league of his own. Hopefully Bale can be unloaded by then.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 02:06 Thread Starter
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Anybody remembers Robinho?
yes, he was supposed to be Pele's heir

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 04:09
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Robinho had a very nice career anyway.

The press hype was madness, but the guy took Santos to a Libertadores final and won them a league as a teenager, and later he also won a league for Atletico Mineiro nearing the end of his career, as the league's best player. In between, he played in Europe's top three leagues and didn't suck in any of them. In fact he did quite well if you remember well. He scored 10+ goals in all of them, he was among the leading goal scorers the three leagues, and won league titles in Spain and Italy. And at Allegri's Milan the trio of Robinho -- Cassano -- Zlatan was fantastic to watch.

IMO Vinicius would do pretty well to have that kind of career.

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 10:00
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People will realize there's more to a footballer as soon as they stop judging players based on "black or white"-terms. All of this is a product of fans' consumption of Madrid's propaganda machine who in turn have to justify that enormous amounts of money are being spent on teenagers just so they'll beat their arch-rivals to signing these players. There's probably a economical and political aspect of this behind the scenes which fans don't even think about.

Vinicius possesses things you can't improve on the training ground but he's also very green and atrocious in all areas that doesn't include running with the ball. Age is on his side though.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 11:36
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People will realize there's more to a footballer as soon as they stop judging players based on "black or white"-terms. All of this is a product of fans' consumption of Madrid's propaganda machine who in turn have to justify that enormous amounts of money are being spent on teenagers just so they'll beat their arch-rivals to signing these players. There's probably a economical and political aspect of this behind the scenes which fans don't even think about.

Vinicius possesses things you can't improve on the training ground but he's also very green and atrocious in all areas that doesn't include running with the ball. Age is on his side though.
Its not like Athletico hasn't spent huge sums on any teenagers...in fact their teenager Felix cost what 3 times what Vinicious did?

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 12:39
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João Félix has nothing to do with Vinicius. His transfer was in part financed by the sale of Griezmann and thus the net transfer spend was more or less €7 million.

Vinicius was signed by Madrid solely because they didn't want to lose out to Barcelona on another "potential Neymar". Rodrygo was the same. They cost €95 million together. NET.

João Félix was signed to be one of the leaders inside Atlético's first team, not to have a year of adaptation at Castilla before he'd be forced into the first team because the president has an idea which doesn't correspond with the reality.

Florentino Pérez controls the media in Spain. If he wants them to write that Vinicius is the next Pelé, they'll do it.

My point is simple: don't ruin the player with exaggerations, especially if he's got natural parts in his game which you can't teach.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 13:00
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João Félix has nothing to do with Vinicius. His transfer was in part financed by the sale of Griezmann and thus the net transfer spend was more or less €7 million.

Vinicius was signed by Madrid solely because they didn't want to lose out to Barcelona on another "potential Neymar". Rodrygo was the same. They cost €95 million together. NET.

João Félix was signed to be one of the leaders inside Atlético's first team, not to have a year of adaptation at Castilla before he'd be forced into the first team because the president has an idea which doesn't correspond with the reality.

Florentino Pérez controls the media in Spain. If he wants them to write that Vinicius is the next Pelé, they'll do it.

My point is simple: don't ruin the player with exaggerations, especially if he's got natural parts in his game which you can't teach.
He had everything to do with my point on Vinnie as a cost comparison about teenagers both clubs bought. You said an enormous sum was spent by Madrid on teenagers in a thread about Vinnie. I just pointed out Felix cost 120 million Euros or so ALONE. How it was financed has nothing to do with it. Just making the observation.

Felix (a kid from Portugal) is signed at 19 to be a leader of Atletico? Isn't that forcing him into a roll he won't be able to do? The kid has talent but isn't that good, lets not get carried away about some preason goals in a friendly against Madrid... Atletico panic bought the kid at an inflated price since Greaseman was leaving to Farca.

As for Perez controlling the media...okay, say he wants them to say Vinnie is the next Pele. That doesn't do anything. The kid still needs to play. The jury is out on whether he will ultimately succeed or not. But I will say this, he's a better buy at 40 million over Felix at 120 million, I think no one will dispute that.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 13:41
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TBF, Vinicius (green as hell) came from Flamengo and a player that can tell the ball is round and plays for flamengo is the next pelé. Real was more a victim of this hype. Rodrygo is another story. There is a lightning rod in Santos, they own the trademark "next pelé" (they are selling next peles to european clubs since the early 60's) and some of those guys actually manage to have more than one day of pelé, so it is quite amazing and not a bad move to bite the bait and at last Rodrygo seems more developed than Vinicius, having more time and experience playing among pros as well.

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 13:43
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He had everything to do with my point on Vinnie as a cost comparison about teenagers both clubs bought. You said an enormous sum was spent by Madrid on teenagers in a thread about Vinnie. I just pointed out Felix cost 120 million Euros or so ALONE. How it was financed has nothing to do with it. Just making the observation.

Felix (a kid from Portugal) is signed at 19 to be a leader of Atletico? Isn't that forcing him into a roll he won't be able to do? The kid has talent but isn't that good, lets not get carried away about some preason goals in a friendly against Madrid... Atletico panic bought the kid at an inflated price since Greaseman was leaving to Farca.

As for Perez controlling the media...okay, say he wants them to say Vinnie is the next Pele. That doesn't do anything. The kid still needs to play. The jury is out on whether he will ultimately succeed or not. But I will say this, he's a better buy at 40 million over Felix at 120 million, I think no one will dispute that.
It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Compare the two clubs and their transfer NET SPEND and you'll realize what you just wrote. Atlético can't even buy an established player like Diego Costa or Lemar for more than €65-70 million if they don't sell someone. Madrid bought these young players for €95 million without even blinking because they've got the money. An enormous amount of money was spent on Vinicius before he'd even showed anything in Flamengo's first team. He'd barely made his debut for Flamengo before Juni Calafat (Madrid's first scout in Brazil) had recommended him and they put up €45 million for the player.

Atlético could've signed Dybala or someone of that calibre but opted for a younger player they can shape. It's not my decision, it's their plan. João Félix as a comparision won the title with Benfica and was their best player. It's not a panic buy, it's a conscious investment into a player who they'll give every chance to succeed, just like they did with Agüero in 2006. Be it in one, three or four seasons. Agüero took a whole year before he started playing well in Spain despite being South America's best player by a country mile the fact that he went far in Copa Libertadores before making the move. I'm against the notion of black and white thinking because there are tons of colors in-between. This is in relation to the thread title. This is why the expectations, transfer sums (vastly inflated because of TV-money) and even this thread title is relevant. There aren't just two ways: great player or flop. And a break through doesn't happen in one, not even two or sometimes even four seasons. Judging players like this is wrong.

Nor am I judging Vinicius or João Félix, I'm only telling you how the media in Spain work for Florentino Pérez. The list of examples speaks for itself; from Portillo via Jesé to Ceballos. All Balon d'Or-winners..not.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 14:25
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TBF, Vinicius (green as hell) came from Flamengo and a player that can tell the ball is round and plays for flamengo is the next pelé. Real was more a victim of this hype. Rodrygo is another story. There is a lightning rod in Santos, they own the trademark "next pelé" (they are selling next peles to european clubs since the early 60's) and some of those guys actually manage to have more than one day of pelé, so it is quite amazing and not a bad move to bite the bait and at last Rodrygo seems more developed than Vinicius, having more time and experience playing among pros as well.
So if you had to choose between Vinicius and Rodrygo, you would pick the latter?

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 14:28
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It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Compare the two clubs and their transfer NET SPEND and you'll realize what you just wrote. Atlético can't even buy an established player like Diego Costa or Lemar for more than €65-70 million if they don't sell someone. Madrid bought these young players for €95 million without even blinking because they've got the money. An enormous amount of money was spent on Vinicius before he'd even showed anything in Flamengo's first team. He'd barely made his debut for Flamengo before Juni Calafat (Madrid's first scout in Brazil) had recommended him and they put up €45 million for the player.

Atlético could've signed Dybala or someone of that calibre but opted for a younger player they can shape. It's not my decision, it's their plan. João Félix as a comparision won the title with Benfica and was their best player. It's not a panic buy, it's a conscious investment into a player who they'll give every chance to succeed, just like they did with Agüero in 2006. Be it in one, three or four seasons. Agüero took a whole year before he started playing well in Spain despite being South America's best player by a country mile the fact that he went far in Copa Libertadores before making the move. I'm against the notion of black and white thinking because there are tons of colors in-between. This is in relation to the thread title. This is why the expectations, transfer sums (vastly inflated because of TV-money) and even this thread title is relevant. There aren't just two ways: great player or flop. And a break through doesn't happen in one, not even two or sometimes even four seasons. Judging players like this is wrong.

Nor am I judging Vinicius or João Félix, I'm only telling you how the media in Spain work for Florentino Pérez. The list of examples speaks for itself; from Portillo via Jesé to Ceballos. All Balon d'Or-winners..not.
I don't follow the "net spend" logic bro. Atletico basically traded Griezmann for Joao Felix, so it's still huge spending no matter how you look at it. I'm not saying he won't be worth it but it's the same with Vinicius. High spending for a teen.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 14:44
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So if you had to choose between Vinicius and Rodrygo, you would pick the latter?
Depends for what. Vinicius would never be a starter at Real, since he was not a starter for Flamengo. Rodrygo could be, but still irregular. In five years? Maybe Vinicius would be smarter (he must stop the wannabe Neymar mania to to try to humiliate defenders since he does not have Neymar body) and use his speed to open the game by the wing, he will turn in a greater player. The thing is Real obviously has no idea of what to do with them and like Zoric said, got them to prevent Barca to do a Neymar.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old September 13th, 2019, 14:57
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Depends for what. Vinicius would never be a starter at Real, since he was not a starter for Flamengo. Rodrygo could be, but still irregular. In five years? Maybe Vinicius would be smarter (he must stop the wannabe Neymar mania to to try to humiliate defenders since he does not have Neymar body) and use his speed to open the game by the wing, he will turn in a greater player. The thing is Real obviously has no idea of what to do with them and like Zoric said, got them to prevent Barca to do a Neymar.
Yeah, as simple as that. Let's just hope they'll learn and become great players - all three of them. I don't have any issues with that but let's also hope people have a bit more patience even if these players don't pan out to be great in a year or two. Sometimes it takes up to five years to explode properly. The good thing for Vinicius is that he's Florentino's player and he stands by the one's he likes - for the most part anyways. Just like JF will be given a fair chance. Both of them are still very slight in terms of build as well so they need to add several things in order to be succesfull.

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