VAR, what is it good for? - Xtratime Community
 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 11:30 Thread Starter
1st Tier Poster
Xtratime Legend
 
Andy Christ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2003
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Teams: Estonia
Posts: 46,883
VAR, what is it good for?

absolutely nothin'

adds like 5 minutes to every game and ruins goal celebrations as everything must be checked first

refs are overusing it
TTM likes this.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
Andy Christ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 12:26
Forum Manager
Legend
 
Tigerheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2001
Location: Düsseldorf
Teams: Bayern München
Posts: 17,178
It's brilliant. Problem is the human factor. Both referee's and VAR assistants make mistakes. Not the fault of the VAR itself.
ToniSamp likes this.

Dirk Nowitzki Basketball God
Tigerheart is offline  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 13:00
Legend
 
camelface's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2004
Posts: 16,798
They should get rid of tie breaking penalty shootouts as well, and give red cards to players who dive in the box. With var at least there is no reason not to enforce that.
camelface is offline  
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 13:12
Forum Manager
Legend
 
KHALID's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 1999
Location: tora bora
Teams: Milan & Chelsea & Holland
Posts: 17,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Christ View Post
absolutely nothin'

adds like 5 minutes to every game and ruins goal celebrations as everything must be checked first

refs are overusing it

U must be joking, its a shame football existed for so long without technology helping these helpless humans called the refs, then u wont have scandals like Maradona’s handball in 86, the Lampard goal against Germany, Overbo robbery of chelsea against barca, or that ridiculous Bayern-Real CL game...now the system made it 90% fair at least.

Bill Shankly: "If you're in the penalty area and you're not sure what to do, stick it in the net and we can discuss the options afterwards."
KHALID is offline  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 13:47 Thread Starter
1st Tier Poster
Xtratime Legend
 
Andy Christ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2003
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Teams: Estonia
Posts: 46,883
yeah but all those scandals are now a part of football's colorful history

human mistakes should not be avoided at all cost

let's not turn into robots
szövkap and Dmitriy like this.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
Andy Christ is offline  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 13:57
Legend
 
camelface's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2004
Posts: 16,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Christ View Post
yeah but all those scandals are now a part of football's colorful history

human mistakes should not be avoided at all cost

let's not turn into robots
I have to say, I definitely do prefer those colourful scandals to the scandal of VAR being applied selectively (the current situation, at least in SerieA), which leaves nothing to the imagination. It most readily point to corruption.
Rodriguez likes this.
camelface is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 14:07
TTM
Legend
 
TTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 2011
Posts: 12,306

Ding ding ding da ding da ding ding ding
TTM is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 14:24
Administrators
Legend
 
Reza's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2001
Location: Canada
Teams: Milan
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerheart View Post
It's brilliant. Problem is the human factor. Both referee's and VAR assistants make mistakes. Not the fault of the VAR itself.
What is VAR itself? You want robots to check replays?

As it stands it is a clear failure imo.
Reza is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 14:47
Forum Manager
Legend
 
Tigerheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2001
Location: Düsseldorf
Teams: Bayern München
Posts: 17,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reza View Post
What is VAR itself? You want robots to check replays?

As it stands it is a clear failure imo.
The VAR itself is the opportunity to check scenes on a screen and decide based on replays rather than in milliseconds.

Of course - and we have seen that, as well as all statistics point to it - that means there are less mistakes in total.

What we still see unfortunately is blatant mistakes by incompetent humans. But less than before VAR.

The fact that there are still too many mistakes does not make the whole VAR useless. Abandoning VAR would just mean more mistakes again. What kind of solution is that?

What we need is better education and professionalism with referees. Many other sports have professional referees where football relies on amateurs most of the time. That is the true scandal.

Dirk Nowitzki Basketball God
Tigerheart is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 14:51
Xtratime Elite
 
szövkap's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2001
Location: VII ker
Teams: MTK
Posts: 52,880
with VAR, Germany wouldnt be world champions in 1954

there would be no Wir sind wieder VAR and VARtschaftswunder and what not
szövkap is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 14:55
Administrators
Legend
 
Reza's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2001
Location: Canada
Teams: Milan
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerheart View Post
The VAR itself is the opportunity to check scenes on a screen and decide based on replays rather than in milliseconds.

Of course - and we have seen that, as well as all statistics point to it - that means there are less mistakes in total.

What we still see unfortunately is blatant mistakes by incompetent humans. But less than before VAR.

The fact that there are still too many mistakes does not make the whole VAR useless. Abandoning VAR would just mean more mistakes again. What kind of solution is that?

What we need is better education and professionalism with referees. Many other sports have professional referees where football relies on amateurs most of the time. That is the true scandal.
You are right of course. But what I mean is if we have replays and apply rules then making 5 mistakes instead of 10 equals failure imo. 10 has to go to zero, and wanting 0 is not asking a lot at all.
Reza is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 15:48
Legend
 
camelface's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2004
Posts: 16,798
What is surprising is that even with a slow-motion replay, some calls are still very difficult to make one way or the other. This is for sure worse when fans don't actually know the rules and just apply what their uncles last told them when they were kids.

But this VAR business also adds a notion of casuistry to football, where a "standard" becomes established by the trend of calls being made, especially in bigger competitions, which is expected by fans to bleed down to the lower competitions. We saw this recently with the handballs being called in the CL and then Milan fans feeling short-changed when Juve handballs were not similarly called.
camelface is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 15:48
Forum Manager
Legend
 
Tigerheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2001
Location: Düsseldorf
Teams: Bayern München
Posts: 17,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reza View Post
You are right of course. But what I mean is if we have replays and apply rules then making 5 mistakes instead of 10 equals failure imo. 10 has to go to zero, and wanting 0 is not asking a lot at all.
I honestly don't see how 5 equals 10.

But maybe Canadian math is different.

On a serious note. I prefer 5 mistakes over 10 without a shadow of a doubt.

We will probably never have 0. But if we use that kind of scale I think with VAR it should be possible to go down to 1. With one additional change though. We need a clear decision process on what is a handball and what not, as currently nobody seems to know anymore. Two different referees will decide two different outcomes of handball situations and that is a bad joke.

As for offside and fouls it should be possible to not make those blatant mistakes like yesterday. But then again it was the same stupid German referee that decided this was not a foul in the cup final last minute and thus decided to award the win to Frankfurt.



Yesterday: http://www.clippituser.tv/c/dnymkq
ToniSamp likes this.

Dirk Nowitzki Basketball God
Tigerheart is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 16:48
Xtratime Legend
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2002
Location: Lulea
Teams: Milan
Posts: 23,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reza View Post
What is VAR itself? You want robots to check replays?

As it stands it is a clear failure imo.
I disagree. The flaw is mostly in how long it takes in how you cant really celebrate a goal that looks like offside.

But it sure have improved on the quality of life in important decisions. And moreso, it really expose a ref if he doesn't make a correct call, they have no excuses now.

And I tell from my long experience in both playing and refeering. It is difficult. It is difficult seeing things that are in another angle or when your eyes are not glued to the right spot. I was a assistant ref last week and a player ran up to me and said "he clearly pushed me" and I could only reply that I kept my eyes on the offside-line (like 7 players to keep track off) and didn't see it. I am sure that a videoreplay (not applicable in this case) would have proved the player correct.
ToniSamp likes this.
Johan is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 17:08
Administrators
Legend
 
Reza's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08 2001
Location: Canada
Teams: Milan
Posts: 10,943
I think it is not an unachievable thing to provide 5 angles and reduce mistakes to zero, not 1 or 5. That's my point. Quickness would be nice but if mistakes are zero some delays could be acceptable. As for hand balls, from ~15 years ago up until last year it was that close ball to hand is not penalty, but for some reason they decided to make it an interpretation thing. They should re-clarify it.
Reza is offline  
post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 17:44
World Class Player
 
Join Date: 10 2001
Location: Copenhagen
Teams: A.C. Milan
Posts: 9,912
There’s still a need for improving the system and the way it’s being handled but it’s definitely a step in the right direction. Must be a nightmare for corrupt clubs and refs, even if it isn’t enough to fully remove them from football.

Annoying though that you never know if a goal stands so can’t really celebrate like before.
Laudrup is offline  
post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 22:03
Forum Manager
Xtratime Elite
 
Nerazzurri4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Location: ****ing overcrowded Egypt
Teams: Al Ahly | F.C. Internazionale | AZ
Posts: 56,294
I hope what happened in the City-Spurs game convinced you that VAR is important.

ما أخذ بالقوة لا يسترد إلا بالقوة
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZZ View Post
lol hossam lol...i think your the coolest bro one of the few ppl i like in this world

now thats three rants lol

i love u bro. yr good people


Juventus were relegated to Serie B along with their reputation.
http://www.inter.it/en/news/46733
Nerazzurri4life is offline  
post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 22:06 Thread Starter
1st Tier Poster
Xtratime Legend
 
Andy Christ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2003
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Teams: Estonia
Posts: 46,883
VAR turned City fans jubilation to tears today

seriously this shit needs to stop...video refereeing is fundamentally incompatible with football and its raw emotion
Dmitriy likes this.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
Andy Christ is offline  
post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 22:11
Forum Manager
Xtratime Elite
 
Nerazzurri4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Location: ****ing overcrowded Egypt
Teams: Al Ahly | F.C. Internazionale | AZ
Posts: 56,294
Lol wtf

Var also turned Spurs fans from tears to jubilation. Your point being?

The point is not emotions. It's achieving fairness. Fairness does not know emotions.

ما أخذ بالقوة لا يسترد إلا بالقوة
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZZ View Post
lol hossam lol...i think your the coolest bro one of the few ppl i like in this world

now thats three rants lol

i love u bro. yr good people


Juventus were relegated to Serie B along with their reputation.
http://www.inter.it/en/news/46733
Nerazzurri4life is offline  
post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 22:16 Thread Starter
1st Tier Poster
Xtratime Legend
 
Andy Christ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 2003
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Teams: Estonia
Posts: 46,883
what makes you think VAR guarantees fairness?

they will still find a way to game the system in corrupt countries like Italy or Greece

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
Andy Christ is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome