"A Song of Ice and Fire" - discussion/speculations(first 3 books spoilers included) - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old June 9th, 2011, 17:45 Thread Starter
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"Game of Thrones" - discussion/speculations(first 3 books spoilers included)

SPOILERS ARE INCLUDED, IF YOU DIDN'T READ THE BOOKS AND ONLY SAW THE SHOW DO NOT READ THIS!

Ok since I don't have anyone to talk to about the book irl and need to keep my mouth shut not to spoil anything for anyone, I thought this thread would be a good idea!

I've only read the first 3 books, so no spoilers for what happens in the 4th please - share your conclusions, theories and thoughts about what happened and what's about to happen in the 4th and even 5th 6th and 7th books!

I'd kick-start it by saying that having thought about the whole deal - I can't really believe Jon is Eddard's son, and he seems like a too importent figure to be his bastard.
It helps me to think that - cause Eddard has been fvcking spotless the entire 3 books(can't see how he'll betray Cat and make a bastard) and been so 'secretive'(is that even a word?) around Jon's mother and the whole deal, also with the show putting an emphesis on it on the first episode - and it leads me to believe theres way more behind this thing.. have no idea who he really is tho.

Another thing i'd put out there - I believe that Daenerys is actually who Melisandre think Stanis is as far as her prophecy goes, with the Dragons and all the fire - also being a King(or Queen), and that she made the wrong choise\read in the fire.

Granted tho, just about every thought I had about what's gonna happen has been false

Your thoughts, your thoughts(let me remind you - no 4th book spoilers or even hints of spoilers - yes i'm looking at you Barcoslav)

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.

Last edited by Stanko 05; June 13th, 2011 at 22:55.
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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 22:50
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I didn't read any of that. But thanks for making the thread mate.

Without it gravity is just gravy.
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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 22:53 Thread Starter
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you seriously read this? I said spoilers are included!

Sorry m8 lol

Edit:
Ok seriously my reading comprehention is rock-bottem lol alm: was sure you ment you didn't read any of the books and was sarcastic cause I ruined it for you with the thread

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 23:04
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The entire back half of book 3 was mental. Just so much crazy shit going down. And then the epilogue, what the hell was that?

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we need to do something about moral relativism because it's really damaging the air condition. there's alot of harassing going on out there, specially during the night, and they use moral relativism to justify it.
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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 23:14 Thread Starter
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I'm not reading it in English - whats the epilogue again?

Anyways yea book 3 has been the best one yet - like one huge roller coaster ride.

Littlefinger killing Lysa and planning to have Sansa as his wife was dead-obvious from the moment they mentioned his name after Joffrey dieing though.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 23:33
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The bit at the end where Catelyn Stark seems to be risen from the dead & with Lord Beric & pals, that part really took me by surprise.

Hope to god you are reading Book 4 Stanko man, I've started but am not far into it, but will clearly need someone to talk about it with when I am done in the next couple of weeks

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we need to do something about moral relativism because it's really damaging the air condition. there's alot of harassing going on out there, specially during the night, and they use moral relativism to justify it.
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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 23:41 Thread Starter
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I just bought it today actually! gonna start it tonight.

Ah, yea - I thought that she became a whitewalker, like in that story Bran had of the fearless Nights Watch commander who married a White Walker or smth.. but yea lol when I saw her name I was shocked too.. it must have something to do with Aryas wolf pulling her out of the river.

What do you reckon about Jon though and him being Ned son or not? does look fishy right?

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 23:48
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Nah. I think that Jon Snow is definitely his fathers son. He is just too much like Ned to not be of Stark blood. I mean doesn't the book basically describe him as looking a lot more like Ned than any of his legitimate children except maybe Arya?

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we need to do something about moral relativism because it's really damaging the air condition. there's alot of harassing going on out there, specially during the night, and they use moral relativism to justify it.
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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2011, 23:58 Thread Starter
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I think you nailed it on the head here, and really gave me an interesting line of thought.

I fully agree with you - Jon is defintaly a Stark - But what do you think about him being the son of Ned's other brothers?

I just can't see Ned making himself 'marked' like that sleeping with another women while in war - thats just not how he's been the entire book and the book always reminds us that in so many ways from so many people.. I think it's a 'tell' regarding Jon.

I know it's wild thinking, but this book author kinda forces you to think in those directions lol.

But which one of Ned brothers could that be? and if it's true - why the hell would Ned agree to do this and mess his 'clean' image? the only reason I could see him mess his image is for his family - same as he tried to do for Sansa.. thats why this comes as the only real possibility.

Lol you got me all excited now with that post, my mind is going wild!

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.

Last edited by Stanko 05; June 14th, 2011 at 00:13.
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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 00:02
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The problem is that Benjen is a man of the Watch & seems honourable, & his older brother Brandon died too young to have fathered Snow. Actually, I just checked the Wiki, http://awoiaf.westeros.org & it says that Snow was born 1 year after Brandon died so I guess theoretically that is possible.

Hard to read that wiki without accidentally coming across a spoiler for book 4 tho

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we need to do something about moral relativism because it's really damaging the air condition. there's alot of harassing going on out there, specially during the night, and they use moral relativism to justify it.
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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 00:10 Thread Starter
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Yea I doubt it's Benjen - it's gotta be Brandons.. but I really can't see or remember something to connect him with it as he was hardly talked about... Ned had a sister too though, shes a possibility too.

I'll tell you what else set me off on that thinking? on the show they really touched it on the first episode - both on Ned and Jon scene, and with Robert and Ned sitting down eating fruits - and in this book/show/story, nothing happens without a reason.

Now - I didn't suspect anything at first - but when they 'told' us in the 3rd book who his mother is, it looked too pointless and unimporent imo, that it just didn't make sence and made me believe theres alot more to this then that.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.

Last edited by Stanko 05; June 14th, 2011 at 00:16.
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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 10:04
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Jon's parents are not yet revealed, so noone knows any spoilers. But there is like a whole theory on internet about his parents, where majority believes in it. You two should get that theory by yourself, I somehow did.

Line of thinking should go like this:
1. We don't believe in imaculate birth, so Jon has a human father and mother.

2. If Ned is the father, the mother can be anyone, and Jon's birth is nothing special, and there's no mystery in it. Jon is like a hero, and he can't just be an ordinary bastard. Though it's possible that Martin is making fun of everyone, and there is no real mystery in it, and he's just a bastard.

3. If Ned is not the father (he's not the mother anyway, I hope so), why he wouldn't tell who his true father (and mother are). He didn't tell it to anyone, why so? What reason could there be to not tell it?

There is an answer for the last question, btw, which reveals the true father and mother.

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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 14:17 Thread Starter
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Well yea that was exactly my line of thoughts and question I asked myself in this thread.

- I do not believe this is just some random women like we were told in Book 3 when Arya found out who his mother is - and I think it's way bigger then that.

- The only reason for Ned to lie - and actually the only time we saw him lie in this book is to save the lifes of his family members or protect them in some way as this is a noble thing to do.. so that means he tried to protect one of his family members - assumingly brothers as they are the only ones we know and were told about in the book.

I got all of this locked down already - but I have no idea or any line of thought as to which one of his brothers\family members is it - and why did it actually happen.

One guy who I think was connected to this somehow, is Robert.

Cause again - nothing happens for no reason, and in the show they did this scene with Robert and Ned, and Ned really got upset and said he will never tell Robert who the mother is.. it looked 'simple' and not importent, but usually those stuff are the most importent stuff.

But why the fvck would Ned want to hide something from Robert?

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 14:35
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You are on the right track. But, instead of asking yourself, why would Ned want to hide something from Robert, ask yourself whom would Ned wanted to hide from Robert. Then just connect this "who" to Eddard Stark's bloodline, and you get yourself Jon Snow.

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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 14:36
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Btw, did you guys understood who sent the assassin to kill Bran. It was not spelled out so obviously, but it's there in the books. It wasn't Jaime either Cersei.

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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 15:00 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Btw, did you guys understood who sent the assassin to kill Bran. It was not spelled out so obviously, but it's there in the books. It wasn't Jaime either Cersei.
Na I think it was spelled pretty obviously towards the end, both Tyrion and Jaime said it was Joffrey trying to impress Robert.. the little prick.

I was so glad he died and infront of Cersei too!


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You are on the right track. But, instead of asking yourself, why would Ned want to hide something from Robert, ask yourself whom would Ned wanted to hide from Robert. Then just connect this "who" to Eddard Stark's bloodline, and you get yourself Jon Snow.
Aha.. ok thats interesting then!

Obviously he would wanna hide and protect both Jon and whoever his mother\father is.. but i'm still lost here having no idea or indication who would that be between all 3 of his brothers(or maybe other family members we were not told about), and why is Robert connected to all of this anyways.

Don't tell me tho, i'm gonna get this one even if I have to re-read all the books lol.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 15:14
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Personally I just think he's Ned's kid because I'm too unimaginative to expect anything else.

BUT if it was someone Ned would want to protect from Robert then you'd assume it would be a Targaryean child. Only I'm certain that the first book mentioned that Jon looks a lot like Ned. Eh, I dunno.

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we need to do something about moral relativism because it's really damaging the air condition. there's alot of harassing going on out there, specially during the night, and they use moral relativism to justify it.
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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 15:23 Thread Starter
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I think I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was reading Neds chapters, and he keeps envisioning his sister saying "promise me Ned, promise me"

Jon has to be her son, and Ned hiding him and calling him his bastard has to be that promise!!

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 15:23
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Maybe it's said he looks like Ned, but it was said also that he looks like Stark (for example I'm just rereading the second book and Cat thinks that her kids look like Tully, except for Jon and Arya who look like Starks).


I'm not saying anything more, but it's so obvious, it pains me that you two just can't do a step forward.

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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2011, 15:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanko 05 View Post
I think I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was reading Neds chapters, and he keeps envisioning his sister saying "promise me Ned, promise me"

Jon has to be her son, and Ned hiding him and calling him his bastard has to be that promise!!
Ok, that's the mother (Lyanna Stark), and the father is... Like Cam said...

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