is Kobe one of the worst players in the league nowadays? - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old December 18th, 2014, 16:08 Thread Starter
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is Kobe one of the worst players in the league nowadays?



he has sucked hard since 12/13 but this is a new low...

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old December 18th, 2014, 17:00
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sorry to hijack the thread but i would like a definitive answer on this: was kobe in his prime better than Lebron in his prime?
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old December 18th, 2014, 19:04 Thread Starter
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obviously not, I have no idea why people think so...the only thing he was better in was hogging and chucking shots. LeBron plays effective basketball.

Wade in his prime was also better than Kobe has ever been. better defender, better passer, more effective scorer. Only people who can't see past the box score think Kobe was top 10 ever.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old December 18th, 2014, 19:10 Thread Starter
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Kobe's game was (and in a way still is) very pleasing aesthetically, though.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old December 18th, 2014, 22:32
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I agree that James is the more effective player of the two, mainly due to being more physically imposing (sort of how Shaq was at the center position). Never been a fan of either of them, but if it came down to their respective primes, I would have to go with Kobe. If you really needed a big night from one player, you know you could count on Kobe. I can't say the same about James as he was never truly a great shooter.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old December 18th, 2014, 23:26
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Wade had a great game yesterday vs the Jazz ftr.

But James is more of a take the game by the scruff of the neck than Kobe ever was
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old December 19th, 2014, 01:57 Thread Starter
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plus he averages 2 pts, 2 rebounds and 2 assists more than Kobe in career...better defender too. much more effective scorer as well.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old December 19th, 2014, 03:07
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Kobe was definitely overrated by some coming into the season by some (especially in the media). I don't what they expected with a guy coming off two major injuries in his mid 30s.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old December 19th, 2014, 04:48
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plus he averages 2 pts, 2 rebounds and 2 assists more than Kobe in career...better defender too. much more effective scorer as well.
Kobe wasn't a starter coming into the league. James was one from the get-go. James is also what, 250 pounds 6'8? Of course he should outrebound him. James is clearly the better passer though. As far as defending, in his prime, Kobe always ranked among the best defenders. I don't think James is superior in that regard
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old December 20th, 2014, 13:46 Thread Starter
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Kobe wasn't a starter coming into the league. James was one from the get-go. James is also what, 250 pounds 6'8? Of course he should outrebound him. James is clearly the better passer though. As far as defending, in his prime, Kobe always ranked among the best defenders. I don't think James is superior in that regard
it's strange that many people believe that...yet advanced stats don't confirm it at all...according to DBPM his defensive contribution measured in points was merely a league average even in his prime. Defensive win shares not close to LeBron and also below Wade. Steals...same story. Yeah I know about his defensive first team selections (which are often critiqued) but IMO it's a combination of lack of good defending SG's and his vastly overhyped reputation. Hard facts don't match up with it.

here's an interesting story about it: https://asubstituteforwar.wordpress....er-imaginable/

LeBron is and always has been of a different class to him when it comes to defensive effectiveness.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old December 20th, 2014, 14:18 Thread Starter
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To put it simply, the advanced metrics show he had one elite defensive season for a SG: 1999/00 (+1.6 DBPM), when the myth of him as a great defender began. He's coasting on this one season ever since...

And this stat makes sense in all other cases...with any other elite defender you could think of, all other top defensive SG/PG are slightly positive (not much as one could expect from a stat which is not position-specific so guards are measured against big men too)...Bryant is the only big exception with a career-negative contribution and only one elite defensive season.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old December 21st, 2014, 03:05
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From my experience of seeing those numbers, many renowned SGs/PGs have in fact slightly negative numbers with some exceptions of course. It still doesn't tell the whole story though. The biggest advantage of James is that he is significantly bigger than Kobe and can play various positions while still creating a lot of mismatches. Kobe is often limited to guarding his man. Also, between '98-'04 Kobe stayed right around 0.0 to +. The likes of Jordan and Wade have moderately better numbers. The numbers of James have dipped hard last season and even more so this year. It doesn't mean he has suddenly regressed in defending, does it?
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old December 21st, 2014, 10:38
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Definetly Lebron over Kobe. I am just imagining what would have happened had Lebron played with Shaq in his prime. Pure domination.
Both are different though.People call Lebron "baby shaq" when he dominates using his size , or compare his style to magic ( play multiple positions, triple doubles)..or compare him to jordan(scoring big). He is a unique , and I dont think we have seen in history of the game players like Lebron.

On other hand Kobe game style is very Jordan.Only Jordan did it much better then him ofcourse.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old December 21st, 2014, 22:19 Thread Starter
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The numbers of James have dipped hard last season and even more so this year. It doesn't mean he has suddenly regressed in defending, does it?
he definitely has somewhat declined as it was mentioned last season already...his overall athleticism has gone down too. although it must be also connected with his declining blocking stats, which result from him playing further away from the basket.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? AndÖ.itís the football, thatís the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old December 22nd, 2014, 09:08
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He is truly playing cancerous basketball this year. I think no one in lakers organization is complaining, as they want to tank and get a high draft pick maybe? But then If am right Phoenix have the draft pick of the Lakers this year ( steve nash trade? ).

Serious stuff, Kobe isnt intrested in winning ..or playing team basketball.Just racking up scoring numbers.

8 - 30 with 9 turnovers last game..and it continues.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old December 22nd, 2014, 16:40
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lol what sucks is this isn't even his final year. There's still another season afterward. Besides Kobe's issues, the Lakers roster is quite terrible.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old December 22nd, 2014, 16:47
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plus he averages 2 pts, 2 rebounds and 2 assists more than Kobe in career...better defender too. much more effective scorer as well.
Comparing lbj's career which includes only his rookie and prime seasons with kobes which includes rookie, prime and age-decline isnt fair
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old December 24th, 2014, 06:34
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he doesnt play a game vs golden state warriors out of all, and Lakers win.
If lakers want to tank, play Kobe.

Last edited by Mr.Pasquale; December 24th, 2014 at 06:42.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old December 24th, 2014, 18:40
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They almost blew a 24 point lead in the 4th 7min to go. Warriors cut it down to a two possession game a min to go until Lin eventually scored. Took them over 6min to score lol. Lakers have been hit and miss this season w/wo Kobe.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old December 24th, 2014, 21:18
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Kobe carried a half decent Lakers side to 2 NBA championships.

He also played his part in the 3 peat.

I will only accept Lebron as historically being greater than Kobe if he manages to win a ring with the CAVS.

Kapetan Gradascevic - Dragon of Bosnia - Never Forget

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Uprising_(1831%E2%80%9332)
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