Most complete basketballers ever? - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:06 Thread Starter
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Most complete basketballers ever?



1. LeBron James - pretty much the definition of completeness. Can guard basically any player in the league on stretches, excellent passing ability and ball control for such a big guy, unmatched Strength/Speed ratio. Very versatile scorer.






2. Larry Bird - the definition of completeness before LeBron came around. Awesome long range shooter for a tall guy who also was effective on the boards and had excellent court vision. Not quite as tenacious defender as some others on this list maybe nor did he have LBJ's speed and athleticism.. It's a pretty close competition for places 2-5 here but eventually I'll put The Hick From French Lick as a runner up on this list over equally deserving candidates. Because he's white.





3. Oscar Robertson - basically the only player in the league to average 30/10/10 in his best seasons. Of course it was easier to get rebounds and assists back then as there were more possessions per game. Nevertheless he is seen as the model versatile guard who could do everything on the court and had a massive competitive drive as well.





4. Michael Jordan - although he was strictly a shooting guard he managed to make his influence felt all over the court and took his position to perfection. 32/8/8 in his 88/89 season are numbers LeBron is yet to reach. One of the best defenders among guards in his era.




5. Magic Johnson - one of the best passers in the history of the game while also being a versatile scorer. His huge body and wide array of skills meant he could play any of the 5 positions. His poor outside shooting and somewhat low rebound numbers for his size force me to put him below MJ and Oscar, though.






6. Kevin Garnett - an elite defender, rebounder and scorer and also one of the best passers ever among big men. Among the greatest pick and roll defenders of all time. Not a great outside shooter but as far as 7-footers go he had the widest skillset in history.






7. Arvydas Sabonis - among the superbigs (+7'2) he had an unique skillset: incredible ballhandling, court vision and assist making ability, unbelievably good outside shooting for a guy his height. Due to his awesome basketball IQ and great fundamentals he could also be a good defender even later in his career when all his speed was gone.







8. Hakeem Olajuwon - as far as standard 7 feet centers go, he was the most complete one: awesome arsenal of offensive moves, among the best rebounders and blockers of his era, good handling and passing too.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim

Last edited by Andy Christ; January 26th, 2014 at 16:39.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:15
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Is this some sort of ranking? Hakeem is probably as good as anyone on that list in terms of being able to do multiple things. David Robinson comes to mind too

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:18
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It was much harder to get assists during Oscar Robertson's time. To be awarded an assist in the 60s, it has to be catch and shoot with no dribbling. Nowadays, you get an assist if the intention is to shoot, which includes dribbling the ball, dropping a few pump fakes or hitting a basket after a drop step. That makes Robertson's triple double stats even more impressive.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:22 Thread Starter
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Is this some sort of ranking? Hakeem is probably as good as anyone on that list in terms of being able to do multiple things. David Robinson comes to mind too
Well Hakeem couldn't play as many positions or guard as many different players than Magic or LeBron obviously.

Nor did he have the giant frame or outside shooting or ballhandling and assist making skills of Sabonis. Hakeem was a standard center who did everything a center must do very well and in this sense was the most complete C of his era in the NBA.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:23
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Add Jason Kidd, Grant hill another one that comes to mind.

Larry bird defo deserves to be there as well, probably even on top of list.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:24 Thread Starter
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It was much harder to get assists during Oscar Robertson's time. To be awarded an assist in the 60s, it has to be catch and shoot with no dribbling. Nowadays, you get an assist if the intention is to shoot, which includes dribbling the ball, dropping a few pump fakes or hitting a basket after a drop step. That makes Robertson's triple double stats even more impressive.
yeah, maybe Oscar should be ahead of Jordan in this ranking after all.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:29 Thread Starter
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Add Jason Kidd, Grant hill another one that comes to mind.

Larry bird defo deserves to be there as well, probably even on top of list.
Kidd wasn't a great scorer which kind of takes away his chances. Hill also nowhere close to completeness of some other historical greats. Bird I guess should be there indeed, maybe 5th.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:34
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Well Hakeem couldn't play as many positions or guard as many different players than Magic or LeBron obviously.

Nor did he have the giant frame or outside shooting or ballhandling and assist making skills of Sabonis. Hakeem was a standard center who did everything a center must do very well and in this sense was the most complete C of his era in the NBA.
Hakeem probably has the most five-fives games in history. His steals are by far the most for a big man. Although not a 3 point shooter, Hakeem was lights out from mid range.

And as far as guarding perimeter players is concerned, one of the most elite big men in the game in terms of switching during the pick and roll and guading the ball handler.

02/05/2009
Estadio : Santiago Bernabéu
Real Madrid 2 - 6 FC Barcelona
Higuain 14'
Thierry Henry 17'
Carles Puyol 20'
Lionel Messi 35'
Sergio Ramos 56'
Thierry Henry 58'
Lionel Messi 75'
Gerard Piqué 82'
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:39
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This fella should be number 1 on the list



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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:42 Thread Starter
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that's a clear PED usage though, even more than in leBron's case.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:47
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Yup, not even NFL fans would miss that spike in numbers. Did you recover rom an ACL in 3 months as well?

02/05/2009
Estadio : Santiago Bernabéu
Real Madrid 2 - 6 FC Barcelona
Higuain 14'
Thierry Henry 17'
Carles Puyol 20'
Lionel Messi 35'
Sergio Ramos 56'
Thierry Henry 58'
Lionel Messi 75'
Gerard Piqué 82'
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 16:58
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Quote:
2. Larry Bird - the definition of completeness before LeBron came around. Awesome long range shooter for a tall guy who also was effective on the boards and had excellent court vision. Not quite as tenacious defender as some others on this list maybe nor did he have LBJ's speed and athleticism.. It's a pretty close competition for places 2-5 here but eventually I'll put The Hick From French Lick as a runner up on this list over equally deserving candidates. Because he's white.
You should follow a sport less dominated by blacks.

Scottie Pippen should be a candidate too, he once lead the Bulls in every statistic.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 17:44
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No Kevin Durant?

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That was a shot. However, when he hits those trivelas one of two things happen-

1-Joshua has an orgasm.

2-Queresma scoress, and Joshua has an orgasm.

This time he got a lucky assist, but you can still bet Joshua had an orgasm.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 18:05
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Jerry West should be in the discussion too. I would also add: Sam Jones, Karl Malone, John Havlicek, and Isiah Thomas.

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That was a shot. However, when he hits those trivelas one of two things happen-

1-Joshua has an orgasm.

2-Queresma scoress, and Joshua has an orgasm.

This time he got a lucky assist, but you can still bet Joshua had an orgasm.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old January 26th, 2014, 20:42
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Six 'complete' greats from our era:

Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Scottie Pippen
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2014, 07:09
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I have Bird as my #1 over MJ and LeBron. The one strong element the latter have over the former is dynamic athleticism. But if there's a few seconds left. And I need a guy to do one of the following:

1) Make free throws
2) Hit the crucial 3
3) Make a steal

I'll go with Bird, as would MJ. MJ's 3 point isn't as good as Birds. While LeBron's freethrows are poor for an MVP level player. Bird I feel can do a little more even though the guy's not athletic, just remarkable.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2014, 07:11
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Scottie Pippen has got to be right up there

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2014, 07:28
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My short list would be this.

Bird
James
Johnson
Jordan
Pippen

These 5 guys are truly jewels. All 5 of them can carry the ball up and fill in as point guard whenever necessary. Pippen took the Bulls to the playoffs without Jordan which shows how much of an amazing player he is.

After these guys I would put the bigs Duncan/Garnett/Olajuwon who were great in their own right.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2014, 07:50
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Originally Posted by Mr.Pasquale View Post
Add Jason Kidd, Grant hill another one that comes to mind.

Larry bird defo deserves to be there as well, probably even on top of list.
Grant Hill wouldn't have been a bad option had he not suffered from those nasty injuries.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2014, 11:30 Thread Starter
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My short list would be this.

Bird
James
Johnson
Jordan
Pippen

These 5 guys are truly jewels. All 5 of them can carry the ball up and fill in as point guard whenever necessary. Pippen took the Bulls to the playoffs without Jordan which shows how much of an amazing player he is.

After these guys I would put the bigs Duncan/Garnett/Olajuwon who were great in their own right.
He had two All Stars (Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong) supporting him, also Kukoc who was one of the best 6th man in the league and Kerr who was a solid backup too. In the second season without Jordan they even added Ron Harper who had averaged 20 points per game in his 8 seasons in the league so far. Bulls had a strong team, it wasn't just Jordan and Pippen.

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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