NBA Player Comparison Thread - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 03:04 Thread Starter
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NBA Player Comparison Thread

Noticed people going back and forth about LeBron/Kobe etc.

In this thread if you think you have a rational argument and can back it up, and want to compare players, you can post about it here.

You can compare the significance of players i.e. the impact one player has on a team vs/in comparison to the impact another player has on another team; think MVP type of talks i.e. Rose have a more bigger impact on the Bulls or Howard at Orlando? Etc...

Or you can make comparisons based on positions. Whose the best defensive shooting guard? Whose the best offensive small forward? Whose the best all around guy in this position? Etc. etc. etc.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 03:08
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yeah the Kobe/Lebron comparison have been awful since lebron's 2nd year in the league.

Kobe scores less efficiently, rebounds and assists less and plays far worse defense. He does however rarely turn the ball over.

Oh, and Kyrie is going to be a HOFer.

how strange it is to be anything at all
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 03:47 Thread Starter
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I think by the end of next year he'll develop his defensive game.

I think the Chris Paul comparisons a year back were spot on.

When they made those comparisons I really believed in it especially when I watched him at Duke. Just has that fluid anticipation of when to pass, when to shoot, when to dribble, etc.

The only noticeable difference between him and Paul is that Irving is actually a shoot-first point guard while Paul is a pure point guard (Style differences).
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 04:00
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Westbrook and Dwayne Wade.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 04:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiaben View Post

Or you can make comparisons based on positions. Whose the best defensive shooting guard? Whose the best offensive small forward? Whose the best all around guy in this position? Etc. etc. etc.
Best defensive shooting guard = Thabo Sefolosha. Arron Afflalo, Avery Bradley and Kawhi Leonard are close as well.

Best offensive small forward is Kevin Durant, hands down.



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Westbrook and Dwayne Wade.
Until Westbrook gets some basketball IQ...Wade is superior.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 04:27 Thread Starter
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You know what's scarily ironic?

Both Harden and Westbrook are to be the successors to Bryant and Wade, in terms of, young generation of top level shooting guards (at least on the offensive end).

Both of them I believe??? Have the highest FG%s in the NBA in their respective positions.

I think if both offered the same amount of minutes on different teams, Westbrook would average more (since he likes to shoot more than he likes to pass), while Harden would probably make a smaller scoring average in comparison,however, stop the opponent from scoring as much on him (since his defense has became much better).

This playoffs is going to answer a lot of questions for Scott Brooks and the Oklahoma management as well. Will we see a different Westbrook this year than last year? (A guy who decides to accept the point guard position over his natural shooting guard genes). Or will we see a Westbrook who will operate strictly as a shooting guard only and look to average less than 7-8 assists a game.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 04:52
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If any duo is the successors of Bryant and Wade, it would be Gordon and Harden, not Westbrook and Harden. After the Thunder couldn't hold on to an 18 point fourth quarter lead against the Lakers and scored a measly 25 points in the entire 2nd half against the Clippers, I'm having a hard time seeing them coming out of the West as opposed to the Spurs and even squads like the Grizzlies and Lakers. Then you also have to consider that Harden AND Ibaka are both up for big pay days after next season, can the Thunder hold on to them both or will they have to pick and choose?


I also find it awesome, how on the year, the top player by position is set except for the SF& PF positions. Paul is the best point guard in the association this year with Kobe at the two and Dwight at the five. At the three, is it LeBron or Durant? At the four, is it Love, Aldridge, Pau, Griffin or a vet like Duncan/Garnett?
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 05:02 Thread Starter
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It really depends on what they're measuring.

Are they measuring statistics or impact?

Like in a statistical situation it would be someone like Kevin Love.

But if they go along the lines of impact, guys like Griffin, Aldridge, etc. are probably going to win in that department to make up for the stats.

Chris Paul and Deron Williams were better than Derrick Rose during his first two rookie years. But during the 3rd year, Rose kind of evolved. Became the best point guard and best player in the league.

Since Rose has been out this season. He's neither the best point guard nor the best player for this specific season. The best player is James this year, while the best point guard is up for debate. Some have Paul because he has to carry the load of the incompetent wing players the Clippers have at the moment. While others have Rondo whose been beasting on the assists and has carried the Celtics to the 4th rank. A few others have also brought Tony Parker and Steve Nash in the picture since both are having tremendous years and arguably one of the finest displays of their careers.

But as for the Oklahoma loss. While it was stupid to go for jump shots in the dying minutes in overtime etc. (I would have drived on a few of those plays). The main reason for the loss had more to do with the absence of Harden rather than bricking shots.

Why? Because Kobe really hates Thabo Sefalosha. I think Thabo talked shit on him a season back and said "he could guard him and that Kobe feigned a couple of those fouls when he fell down". This really set off Bryant and he's put Thabo on the list of players that he likes to go 1 on 1 A LOT on. If Harden had played the second half, no doubt, the Thunder would have won it.

The Spurs can easily win another championship this year, no doubt. But I'm going to wait till the brackets come out first. If one team has favorable teams on their side and the other has teams that are not so favorable, it could make the difference based on that.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 05:07
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Going based off of a mixture of everything, I think those are the top at their positions. I'd give LBJ the nod at the three but at PF, it is wide open, though Love probably deserves it.

As far as point guards, I think Paul, Parker, Rondo, Nash, Westbrook are the top five with Paul and Parker being #1 and #2 and the other three being interchangeable. Deron is having a bad year, though I expect next year, him and Rose, to jump back into the top 3.

Lack of Harden hurt, but I think it was more on coaching than anything. They have had a few games where they just look shook and that is not a good sign in the slightest. Thabo, however, played spectacular D on Kobe, but Kobe was just being Kobe, nothing else he could have done. He was suffocating them and gave him no real good looks. If they would have had Sloan or Pop, for example, I think they would have held on.

As far as the Spurs, they are the leagues second highest scoring team but still play scrappy D, not to mention, they have an amazing bench. Neal-Gino-Jackson-Splitter is pretty damn formidable.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 05:09
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How about Derrick Rose vs. Chris Paul?

I'd take CP3 over Rose, but just slightly.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 05:12
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How about Derrick Rose vs. Chris Paul?

I'd take CP3 over Rose, but just slightly.
Its a close call and coming into the year, I thought Rose-Paul-Deron were tier 1 of point guards, in no particular order. But considering Rose has been injured for a good portion of the year and when he has played, he has been a step slow while Paul has been clutch and is putting up amazing stats, advanced ones especially.

I just hope Olshey can retain him after next season.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 05:59
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Westbrook and Dwayne Wade.

Dwyane Wade is the better player IMO, but this year westrbook been the better player.

Quote:
yeah the Kobe/Lebron comparison have been awful since lebron's 2nd year in the league.

Kobe scores less efficiently, rebounds and assists less and plays far worse defense. He does however rarely turn the ball over.

Oh, and Kyrie is going to be a HOFer.
You cannot compare lebron with anybody, he is in a league of his own.The best in the business by far.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 06:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacHercegovac View Post
How about Derrick Rose vs. Chris Paul?

I'd take CP3 over Rose, but just slightly.
it's rock paper scissors

cp3 > rose vs teams that can throw great defenders like lebron/rwb/wade on rose

cp3 > rose if the cp3 team has major weapons off the PnR and the PnP

rose > cp3 h2h, rose just has the craziest first step of all time

rose > cp3 vs teams with terrible pg defense, aka Lakers

how strange it is to be anything at all
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 06:44
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it's rock paper scissors

cp3 > rose vs teams that can throw great defenders like lebron/rwb/wade on rose

cp3 > rose if the cp3 team has major weapons off the PnR and the PnP

rose > cp3 h2h, rose just has the craziest first step of all time

rose > cp3 vs teams with terrible pg defense, aka Lakers

Head 2 Head, Paul puts up slightly better stats (Rose is 5-0 but Paul has always had a shittier team).

Rose: 17.6 | 5.2 | 8.6 | 1.6 Steals | 3.6 Turnovers on 40.3 Field Goal in 39.2 Minutes
Paul: 18.4 | 3.2 | 9.0 | 2.4 Steals | 2 Turnovers on 50.7% in 41 Minutes
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 07:07 Thread Starter
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Rose is the best player in the league (not this season thanks to the injury).

Statistically speaking, he has the potential to be the ugliest ever to win the MVP in terms of stats. But regardless, it's his impact that counts the most (not his stats).

The thing is, he's one of those types that can play a bad first half and end up winning the 4th quarter for you. He's quite a strange type.

It's his freak athleticism that gifts him opportunities to dominate players in the stretch on both ends of the floor.

Chances are if he wanted to take the title of the greatest point guard of all time, he'll have to do two things (well these are what sports people would probably expect).

1) Win more championships than Magic Johnson
2) Make a ton of assists.

The thing is since he's a scoring point guard, he won't be one of the greatest in the department of assists. Which is kind of unusual when you want to characterize what a point guard is all about.

With that said. Just because he's a freak, doesn't mean he's unbeatable. Steve Nash demonstrated that you can defeat Rose and his Bulls if you don't allow him to shut you down (when Rose shutdown Paul earlier this year it collapsed the Clippers). Against Nash last year they traded blows and Nash got the better of him and defeated him (had at least 12 assists if I can recall).
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 07:08
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Rose wasn't Rose until his 3rd year in the league, before that he was an insanely explosive young inefficient pg who didn't get to the line, now he's an insanely explosive pg who combines good outside shooting and the ability to initiate contact.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...01&p2=paulch01

look at the line from the latest H2H at Staples:

DRose: 29/8/16 on 14 FGA, 11 FTAs

CP3: 15/4/14 on 14 FGA, 1 FTA

how strange it is to be anything at all
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 07:17
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If you want to use the first 3 year argument, then one can easily say it was Paul's 3rd game with his teammates with only a week to 10 days with them due to the shortened season/late trade. He didn't even participate in the shortened training camp. Rose is Rose and I had him in an essential tie with Paul and Deron as the leagues best point guard coming into the season, but with his injury and him missing a ton of time, Deron's team being iffy and him not showing it all this year, Paul has been the leagues best point guard this season, hands down. #1 in steals, #3 in assists, #2 in assists per turnover, #6 in steals-per-turnover (no one ahead of him handles the ball even half the time Paul does)

Quote:
Chances are if he wanted to take the title of the greatest point guard of all time, he'll have to do two things (well these are what sports people would probably expect).
With guys like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Payton, Kidd, Stockton then throw in guys like Mo Cheeks, Frazier, Nash, Paul, KJ, Cousy and Tiny, Rose has a ways to go, though it isn't out of the question with Rose being only 23.

Last edited by qrich; April 24th, 2012 at 07:22.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 07:28
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well of course you have to use valid comparisons, Rose was only the superstar he is now in his 3rd year.

I also thinks CP3 > Rose but Rose might be my favourite player to watch when he's flying and healthy. Just the craziest first step of all time, insane what he'd do if he played football.

how strange it is to be anything at all
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 07:40
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I understand that, but you also have to consider the amount of time he has had to gel with his teammates vs Paul at the time. I'm just glad this is a point-guard era and with guys like Irving, Rondo, Paul, Deron, I just enjoy seeing a point guard set up his teammates so well.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2012, 08:04
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Rose is much like Iverson, and I prefer AI over him by alot. HE is now in a team that suits him so well, a very defensive team and he takes things on offensive end. This bulls team is close to the sixers team in 2001.With differences being this bulls team without Rose is superior to that sixers team without AI..

But Rose wouldnt thrive in other systems.A pass first point guard is always preferable to shoot first point guard.
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