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post #121 of 154 (permalink) Old June 19th, 2019, 22:48
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Yours was an excellent argument in Sarri's defense, dpforever10


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post #122 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 04:16 Thread Starter
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You attribute all the individual achievements to the players, but doesn't the coach have a big hand in those achievements as well? Klopp has always known how to get the best out of those players and the team as a whole.

I can't say the same for Sarri, even if they were unlikely to finish higher than City and Liverpool, they didn't do as well as they should have in the league, losing a lot of games they should have won.

Conte also arrived at Chelsea when they were arguably in even greater turmoil, and he won the EPL and got the FA Cup final in his first season.

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post #123 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 09:38
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Every 20 years there is an innovation in football. After Ajax there was Sacchi’s Milan, then Guardiola, who rather sent football to sleep. Fortunately now we’ve got Sarri, who can wake football up again.” Fabio Capello

I have no doubts that Sarri is one of the best managers out there,” Guardiola gushed. “He achieved something incredible with Napoli. His style of football is as good as a drink in the sun.” Pep Guardiola.

When you see Sarri’s teams play, you know how they train. He is a genius. When I was technical director with the Italy youth teams, I always went to watch kids in Serie B, and I was already impressed by his Empoli. He looks after the players, they understand him.” Arrigo Sacchi.

He has helped me so much early on, he made me feel like a player who is indispensable. At times for a player, dialogue can be the most important thing. He’s a bit like a father for me.” Gonzalo Higuain.

Sarri taught me football, we’re led by a commandant who has changed everyone’s life. Sarri has transferred to us his way of understanding football, a philosophy which distinguishes us from the others and which allows us to express our game in the best way. The thing I love the most about his style of football is the way he organises the phases when we are off the ball and structures the pressure we put on opponents when they’ve got the ball at their feet. It feels like he has already played the game out in his head and on the field you have an extra man.” Dries Mertens.






I think you'll divebomb in the CL but probably stroll Serie A.

Rabiot and Ramsey add a lot of depth, energy, explosive quality and cutting edge to the midfield. The squad is simply too good for Serie A, even if Chiesa and Icardi don't join (and I think at least one of them will).

It is becoming clear that Inter won't be able to reinforce to the degree that is needed and that Conte will have to rely on a fading Nainggolan, Dzeko and Perisic and trash like Gagliardini and Vecino for the season.

De Laurentiis has already said Napoli have to sell before they can buy. I don't think James is enough to take Napoli to the level of a true challenger.

Long and short of it: Serie A is still a shoo-in for Juve.

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post #124 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 09:43
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That's not why Allegri was let go, and why I don't have faith in Sarri. It's all about increasing our chances in CL, and based on pedigree so far he decreases our odds there imo.

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post #125 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 12:01
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You attribute all the individual achievements to the players, but doesn't the coach have a big hand in those achievements as well? Klopp has always known how to get the best out of those players and the team as a whole.

I can't say the same for Sarri, even if they were unlikely to finish higher than City and Liverpool, they didn't do as well as they should have in the league, losing a lot of games they should have won.

Conte also arrived at Chelsea when they were arguably in even greater turmoil, and he won the EPL and got the FA Cup final in his first season.

I'
My point was to highlight the strength of this Liverpool's squad... from GK to defenders to attackers, this squad had a historical season in the league... ofcourse Klopp takes a huge credit for this, but he also ended up 8th and trophy-less in his first season, unlike Sarri... Conte did extremely well to win the EPL in his first season with Chelsea, and I rate him very highly as a manager

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post #126 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 12:18
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You attribute all the individual achievements to the players, but doesn't the coach have a big hand in those achievements as well? Klopp has always known how to get the best out of those players and the team as a whole.

I can't say the same for Sarri, even if they were unlikely to finish higher than City and Liverpool, they didn't do as well as they should have in the league, losing a lot of games they should have won.

Conte also arrived at Chelsea when they were arguably in even greater turmoil, and he won the EPL and got the FA Cup final in his first season.

I'
Klopp finished 8th in his first Liverpool season. 8th!

Second season 4th.

Third season 4th again. + CL final.


So Sarri actually did better in his first season.
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post #127 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 12:57
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If increasing the chances for the CL was the intention, to get rid of one of the best managers in the world (risky) before improving midfield is odd as hell. Same year you let go Marrotta too. Don't know what virus got in Juve management head...
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post #128 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 15:22
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David Endt: “Inter looks like a beautiful diva in blue and black, but in reality she is nothing more than a prostitute.”
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post #129 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 16:32
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If increasing the chances for the CL was the intention, to get rid of one of the best managers in the world (risky) before improving midfield is odd as hell. Same year you let go Marrotta too. Don't know what virus got in Juve management head...
Marotta was let go so Paratici could be kept cause he is younger and many wanted him. Paratici is mid 40s. Marotta is 60s. If we had kept Marotta Paratici would have left for bigger role in another club. Also it was Paratici who got us Ronaldo.
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post #130 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 16:41
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Marotta was let go so Paratici could be kept cause he is younger and many wanted him. Paratici is mid 40s. Marotta is 60s. If we had kept Marotta Paratici would have left for bigger role in another club. Also it was Paratici who got us Ronaldo.
Yeah but you didn't get good because of Ronaldo.
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post #131 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 16:53
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My worries with Sarri:

* He is quite stubborn tactically and also doesnt make subs till like 65-70 min. Chelsea fans said that every week and always same sub. So predictable in that sense. Some fans already saying expect Bentancur to sub Ramsey every match at 70 min.

* How good is he with young players? We have some younger players but particularly Kean and his development. There are stories we might bring Higuain back. So thats another option taking minutes off Kean.

* 60 years old and hasnt won much. Its not really a long term signing. I give him 2 years max.

Having said that he gets a better squad to manage compared to Napoli and he was the manager who pushed us further in league with lesser team. Its similar to signing like Higuain and Pjanic and Allegri to a lesser extent.

Dont care much about the Chelsea thing. He had to start with Morata as striker. He took over mid July btw at Chelsea cause of the contract issues with Conte. Conte actually took the first preseason trainings. So he missed the preseason largely. Mid July took over and epl started 10 august. So like 3 weeks till season started took over. Very little preseason. We have a better squad than Chelsea now apart from Hazard and Kante. All the other players are largely meh. I mean David Luiz still starting in that team. Also the general Chelsea history with managers. Noone lasts there more than 2 years. We have real men and leaders here who wont back stab the manager.
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post #132 of 154 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 21:23
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My worries with Sarri:

* He is quite stubborn tactically and also doesnt make subs till like 65-70 min. Chelsea fans said that every week and always same sub. So predictable in that sense. Some fans already saying expect Bentancur to sub Ramsey every match at 70 min.

* How good is he with young players? We have some younger players but particularly Kean and his development. There are stories we might bring Higuain back. So thats another option taking minutes off Kean.

* 60 years old and hasnt won much. Its not really a long term signing. I give him 2 years max.
Sarri could be your Guardiola or your Orrico, I'm not going to risk a prediction. That said, I will comment the points you mentioned. First of all, he is 60 yo, but Juventus isn't the kind of club who keeps a coach/manager for 20 seasons the way some English clubs do (did). He isn't even going to stay for 10 seasons in a row like Trapattoni. It will be 5 seasons in the best possible scenario for Juventus and for him.

Sarri is not so stubborn as many people pretend, from the tactical point of view. I like to make an example: Sarri adopted 4-3-1-2 at Empoli and started with the same formation at Napoli with Insigne as the trequartista. As soon as he realized that Insigne could not play there he switched to 4-3-3. In comparison Ancelotti, who has adopted 4-4-2 with Insigne equally out of his fav position, is more stubborn.

The fact that Sarri relies badly on very few players and hardly uses the others might be a handicap for a team made of 20+ reliable players in order to play serie A and CL. It will be interesting to see what Sarri does.
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post #133 of 154 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2019, 04:18
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My worries with Sarri:

* He is quite stubborn tactically and also doesnt make subs till like 65-70 min. Chelsea fans said that every week and always same sub. So predictable in that sense. Some fans already saying expect Bentancur to sub Ramsey every match at 70 min.

* How good is he with young players? We have some younger players but particularly Kean and his development. There are stories we might bring Higuain back. So thats another option taking minutes off Kean.

* 60 years old and hasnt won much. Its not really a long term signing. I give him 2 years max.
Sarri could be your Guardiola or your Orrico, I'm not going to risk a prediction. That said, I will comment the points you mentioned. First of all, he is 60 yo, but Juventus isn't the kind of club who keeps a coach/manager for 20 seasons the way some English clubs do (did). He isn't even going to stay for 10 seasons in a row like Trapattoni. It will be 5 seasons in the best possible scenario for Juventus and for him.

Sarri is not so stubborn as many people pretend, from the tactical point of view. I like to make an example: Sarri adopted 4-3-1-2 at Empoli and started with the same formation at Napoli with Insigne as the trequartista. As soon as he realized that Insigne could not play there he switched to 4-3-3. In comparison Ancelotti, who has adopted 4-4-2 with Insigne equally out of his fav position, is more stubborn.

The fact that Sarri relies badly on very few players and hardly uses the others might be a handicap for a team made of 20+ reliable players in order to play serie A and CL. It will be interesting to see what Sarri does.
Tbh the age thing isnt so much about longevity. Many great managers turned crap after 60s. Capello turned 60 in 2006.
Lippi turned 60 during his 2nd Italy stint.

Van Gaal failed at Utd.

Wenger turned 60 2009 and at best got Arsenal 4th.

Mourinho is 56 and most already think his career is finished.

Crap is a strong word but they didnt adapt and their methods didnt work and their stubborness also cost the team.

Sarri already has shown he can be very stubborn. And his not someone who was once great. So there are doubts about his methods.

Also this you have the squad to win the league. Couple of points. Napoli and Inter have proven winner coaches. Ronaldo doesnt quarantee anything. Ronaldo won 2 league titles in 9 years at Madrid. We have a team with key players aging. Most people say Sarri football takes time to adapt for players. And again his not a proven winner. He said some weird shit at Chelsea press conferences. Its not made up saw it with my own eyes. "I dont know how to motivate these players" etc.
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post #134 of 154 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2019, 08:05
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Tbh the age thing isnt so much about longevity. Many great managers turned crap after 60s. Capello turned 60 in 2006.
Lippi turned 60 during his 2nd Italy stint.

Van Gaal failed at Utd.

Wenger turned 60 2009 and at best got Arsenal 4th.

Mourinho is 56 and most already think his career is finished.

Crap is a strong word but they didnt adapt and their methods didnt work and their stubborness also cost the team.

Sarri already has shown he can be very stubborn. And his not someone who was once great. So there are doubts about his methods.
I'm not sure how the age of a manager is an issue... Jupp Heynckes won the treble with Bayern when he was 68 years old... Ferguson ended his managerial career strongly by winning the EPL comfortably at 71 years old and before that won the CL when he was 67 years old... Sarri is far from old-school football, he is a huge fan of technology and uses drones to video tape and analyze every training session, he is also the same age as Carlo Ancelotti, probably the strongest rival in Serie A
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post #135 of 154 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2019, 08:25
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I'm not sure how the age of a manager is an issue... Jupp Heynckes won the treble with Bayern when he was 68 years old... Ferguson ended his managerial career strongly by winning the EPL comfortably at 71 years old and before that won the CL when he was 67 years old... Sarri is far from old-school football, he is a huge fan of technology and uses drones to video tape and analyze every training session,

Exactly. The age is one of the wrongest arguments ever. 50 or 60 doesn't really make a difference. 70 depends on the health, mostly mental. Anyway, you will hardly have Sarri when he is 70 (or indeed over 65). Sarri has the experience of person who started in the lowest divisions thirty (!!!) years ago and the enthusiasm of a boy. He will be a success or a failure, but age is not really the problem.

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post #136 of 154 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2019, 13:27
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Nah i disagree. Did u not get my point. Capello and Lippi two of italys best turned crap. Lippi 2nd Italy stint was total disaster and he stubbornly left Cassano and Rossi home for 2010. Capello football got worse. He once again didnt do s..t with Madrid in CL and he took the England and Russia job for $$$.


Ferguson and Heynkes are more against the norm. Ferguson is a really rare case in general. We are talking here about one of the all time greats. Sarri meanwhile wins his first trophy age 60.

But the thing is these guys were winners before. Ferguson won in europe with Aberdeen. And u can see how much Utd miss him. Heynkes had won CL 15 years before. So a proven winner. Sarri is not in the same category.

I dont really get the point about starting 30 years again in lowest division. In fact i dont get this whole argument. There are those in media who talk about his ex banker turned manager. How amazing story etc. Thats the funny thing. The guy has managed in football longer than guys like Ancelotti. Let alone Allegri and Conte who were playing when Sarri started. If anything he has advantage in management then. Not that i find managing in serie C1 28 years ago smth to talk about.

Its smth what Allegri picked up on. And i go further. He said recently why is it always the same faces winning every year. I go further. Why did it take Sarri to age 56 to get Napoli job. While Contes and Allegris are managing big clubs in their 40s. I know there will be those who say look those guys were ex footballers so they always had the advantage. If u are ex pro u always have more chance and faster to land a good job.

But look at Mourinho. He didnt play at all and was winning titles in every club he went in the 2000s in his 40s. Meanwhile what was Sarri doing in his 40s? He was at Valdema and Tegoleto in 1999-2000. Sounds more like pasta companies.

I guess my point is why has it taken him so long. The media picture him as some banker who quit banking age 48 or smth. Wikipedia shows first job in football club 1990 age 30. So he has actually managed longer than any active manager in top level right now. And it has taken him 30 years to win a trophy.

And again ive seen some stuff at Chelsea which question his abilities at a big club. He said he doesnt know how to motivate these players. Even if u really dont know u are not supposed to say that in the media. Imagine he has a rocky start here. Is he going to say same shit here. Its hard to manage a team who has won 8 in a row?

And we are talking about a guy who was still managing Empoli 4 years ago.

The guy has won the lotery landing this job.

There is plenty to be sceptical.

It could easily turn tits up. Del Neri is a great example. Got Chievo to Europa right. Then failed at Porto and Roma. Gets Samp to europe. Then fails at Juve.

Heck i want Toni to answer me. What is ur personal opinion of Del Neri. This guy had ur best season in league last 20-25? years. But total carcrash in any bigger club.

Last edited by Stephan; June 21st, 2019 at 13:32.
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post #137 of 154 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2019, 16:03
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Delneri proved not to be top club material. I can't get the connection with Sarri, who has done very well with Napoli and won an Europa League with Chelsea.
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post #138 of 154 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2019, 21:39
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The point is that it is not about age, but whether the manager is so stuck in his ways he cannot adapt to any tactical changes in new eras or to changes in player psychology. Sarri has proven he is successful in this age.

Lippi was no longer successful by the time of 2010, and his team was garbage too.

Capello had last won Serie A in 2001
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post #139 of 154 (permalink) Old June 22nd, 2019, 11:04
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Delneri proved not to be top club material. I can't get the connection with Sarri, who has done very well with Napoli and won an Europa League with Chelsea.
It is easy to say that right now. Sarri was not expected to win trophies at Napoli (Benitez and Mazzarri actually won trophies there). And most people didnt expect him to win trophies at Chelsea (given Conte finished 5th or 6th and man City and Pool have better teams/momentum). Target was top 4 and play good exciting football. Juve is expected to win get go. Also i dont particularly rate the EL win. He beat teams like Slavia and Dynamo in knockouts. Chelsea had the best team roster in the competition.

And with the signing of Ronaldo we want to win CL. But Sarri has done nothing in CL. Given Sarris experience and philosophy plenty could go wrong. Some journos already saying Sarri style simply doesnt match Juve. And again the expectations. He is expected to win here from first day. Can he handle that pressure is my question.
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post #140 of 154 (permalink) Old June 22nd, 2019, 12:12 Thread Starter
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My point was to highlight the strength of this Liverpool's squad... from GK to defenders to attackers, this squad had a historical season in the league... ofcourse Klopp takes a huge credit for this, but he also ended up 8th and trophy-less in his first season, unlike Sarri... Conte did extremely well to win the EPL in his first season with Chelsea, and I rate him very highly as a manager
Liverpool's squad when Klopp took over was also significantly weaker than Sarri's when he took over Chelsea.

So the comparison doesn't really make sense.

Klopp has won a lot more than Sarri has over the course of their respective careers too.

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