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post #41 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 06:10
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Why would Arsenal sign Vidal? They already have Coquelen, Flamini, Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cazorla and Ozil battling it out for 3 midfield spots... Wenger had the chance to sign Fabregas on a discount but said there is no space for him as the midfield is too crowded as it is... I doubt Wenger would spend most of his transfer kitty on a midfielder... he needs a world-class striker + a defender + a gk

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post #42 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 06:21
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Yeah, Arsenal need far more reinforcements in other positions than CM.

And not to be snippy, but Vidal has won quite a bit at Juve, at Arsenal he's going to have to get used to settling for third or fourth position.

The only reason i can think of such a move making sense to him is only in monetary terms, and so he can hang out with Sanchez.

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post #43 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 08:52
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Berardi is the most underrated player in Europe period.

This will be a bigger bust than not taking Verratti for 12 mil! I know I know you guys went for other options but what was 12m!?

Berardi for 15m is a steal.
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post #44 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 09:28
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Verratti was a player who had not even played in Serie A yet at the time. 12m was exorbitant, it's easy in hindsight to say it was the wrong decision.

Marotta should have tried to close a deal for him earlier however. It remains a blight on his record.

Berardi for 15m is indeed a steal, i can't fathom us not buying him out from Sassuolo.

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post #45 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 09:47
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Well, we have tried and failed to sign 3 promising youngsters in the past 3 years, being outbid in the process - Destro, Iturbe and Veratti - at the end failing all 3 of them probably was better than signing all 3 of them as the success:flop ratio is 1:2. And Veratti wasnt needed up until now with Pirlo in the squad, so who knows if he would have developed the same way if he was signed.
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post #46 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 10:22
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Yeah agreed, and at his age if he had gone to Juve, he probably would not have had as much playing time to develop as Pirlo would have been in his way.

I think Verratti going to PSG was the best solution for everyone involved. And he seems happy there, so all's well that ends all.

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post #47 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 10:24
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Verratti was a mistake, not a must at the time but still a missed opportunity for sure. Its not a question of development, this kid is world class level player and would just show it clearly if he plays.

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post #48 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 10:54 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nero View Post
Now you seem to be being stubborn about this with that remark, when what i'm saying is the most non-controversial point ever. Morata had no expectation to be a straight starter, Dybala should not expect that either.
I don't think it is being stubborn to suggest there will be pressure on a player arriving as one of Juventus' most expensive signings ever, and expectations of that player to play and perform.
Some of you seem to think it will be the club's desire that Dybala is Tevez' understudy; that he himself will be happy about that, and that all involved will think he has all the time in the world.... .
I suppose we will see about that.... I think the papers will be writing about Mr. 40 million not playing most the times he doesn't start. And I think that matters, also at Juve.

That there is a difference here to Morata's case, who joined us from a rather different league, mostly because he didn't get to play in his old team and didn't look like getting the shot either, that is clear also.
Dybala is used to playing all the time, he is used to serieA. I am not saying that he is going to be complaining if he doesn't start right off the bat, but if he does well in his outings, it will be very difficult to have him on the bench.

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And i will state for the record that you're attributing more to this factor than i think is logical, when we both know Tevez will be gone in a year, and that Dybala at his age and profile, is not going to kick up a fuss if he has to play second fiddle to a striking duo which could possibly net us a historic treble.
There was an article yesterday suggesting that Tevez might even stay longer than next season, partly because of Boca's Libertadores ban... don't know what to think of that. Either way we don't know.
In any case my point is that we should play to our strengths. And for a team that has Tevez, Morata, Dybala and - should we choose to - Berardi, I think there is a fair argument that playing with three forwards, all four of them very mobile and hard working actually, is better than playing most attacking midfielders we would be likely to get.

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As i've said previously, there has been no indication recently that we're willing to play a trident up front.
Tevez/Morata/Llorente/Matri is reason enough not to want a trident, and Coman obviously hasn't been trusted with meaningful games.

Tevez/Morata/Dybala/Berardi plus 5th striker would be..... an entirely different situation, because we'd have players whose tendencies fit a trident whereas today we have area strikers and Tevez.

We started the season with 3-5-2 and a few 4-3-1-2 experiments because Allegri built on what the team knew, and we transitioned to the 4-3-1-2 that has helped us be serious in Europe (and Evra attaining form has helped that). Don't see why such modifications cannot continue based on the quality of the players at Allegri's disposal?

Interesting last sentence to this article: http://www.calciomercato.com/news/la...-rugani-615650

Berardi almeno per tutta l'estate rimarrà a disposizione di Allegri che oltre a valutare una Juve col tridente puro, potrà così testarne l'affidabilità sia da seconda punta che da trequartista. E poi dipenderà tutto da lui.


Again - add Berardi to the picture with Dybala... I have a very difficult time seeing how we use assets somewhat efficiently if we are also to accommodate an attacking mid/playmaker.

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And of course it rings hollow to say we won't have the funds to go for an AM, if we spend 13m on in the same mercato to secure Pereyra.
Heh .
Question is how much it takes to get someone you justify benching Dybala and or Berardi for. We pay 35-40 million for one and 15 million to resolve the others' half-share. Pereyra is cover for three midfield positions and can pitch in no matter our formation. Might be too much for him, but on current form not by too much considering his age and upside.

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Last edited by Glen; May 26th, 2015 at 11:11.
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post #49 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 11:22
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Well, in hindsight it was mistake, but you cant sign them all. I am more annoyed about the players we own and let go cheaply and without giving them chance- Gabbiadini this year, probably Berardi the next one.
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post #50 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 11:29
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I don't think it is being stubborn to suggest there will be pressure on a player arriving as one of Juventus' most expensive signings ever, and expectations of that player to play and perform.
Some of you seem to think it will be the club's desire that Dybala is Tevez' understudy; that he himself will be happy about that, and that all involved will think he has all the time in the world.... .
I suppose we will see about that.... I think the papers will be writing about Mr. 40 million not playing most the times he doesn't start. And I think that matters, also at Juve.
He will get minutes next season due to rotation, and he will replace Tevez in the starting line-up once Tevez leaves after next season.

I don't think it's more complicated than that.

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That there is a difference here to Morata's case, who joined us from a rather different league, mostly because he didn't get to play in his old team and didn't look like getting the shot either, that is clear also.
Dybala is used to playing all the time, he is used to serieA. I am not saying that he is going to be complaining if he doesn't start right off the bat, but if he does well in his outings, it will be very difficult to have him on the bench.
Agreed, but when the time horizon for Tevez's permanent departure is only a season, i don't see this being an issue.

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There was an article yesterday suggesting that Tevez might even stay longer than next season, partly because of Boca's Libertadores ban... don't know what to think of that. Either way we don't know.
In any case my point is that we should play to our strengths. And for a team that has Tevez, Morata, Dybala and - should we choose to - Berardi, I think there is a fair argument that playing with three forwards, all four of them very mobile and hard working actually, is better than playing most attacking midfielders we would be likely to get.
And i agree with that notion, i just don't see it as being likely because it is not popular with Italian teams. We have not historically played 3 up front either, so there is little precedence for it. It took us almost half the season just to get rid of Conte's 3-5-2, imagine how difficult it would be to implement something more offensive than the 4-3-1-2.

I also don't see Tevez staying past next season.

Quote:
Tevez/Morata/Llorente/Matri is reason enough not to want a trident, and Coman obviously hasn't been trusted with meaningful games.

Tevez/Morata/Dybala/Berardi plus 5th striker would be..... an entirely different situation, because we'd have players whose tendencies fit a trident whereas today we have area strikers and Tevez.

We started the season with 3-5-2 and a few 4-3-1-2 experiments because Allegri built on what the team knew, and we transitioned to the 4-3-1-2 that has helped us be serious in Europe (and Evra attaining form has helped that). Don't see why such modifications cannot continue based on the quality of the players at Allegri's disposal?
It's possible but i don't think it's probable. As i said, it took us a long time to even ditch the 3-5-2, in fact our CL campaign pretty much had to be in jeopardy before Allegri switched to the back 4.

I don't have faith in Allegri being much of a risk-taker, he will go with the tried and tested unless it's not working.

Quote:
Interesting last sentence to this article: http://www.calciomercato.com/news/la...-rugani-615650

Berardi almeno per tutta l'estate rimarrà a disposizione di Allegri che oltre a valutare una Juve col tridente puro, potrà così testarne l'affidabilità sia da seconda punta che da trequartista. E poi dipenderà tutto da lui.


Again - add Berardi to the picture with Dybala... I have a very difficult time seeing how we use assets somewhat efficiently if we are also to accommodate an attacking mid/playmaker.
Well first things first, we need to bring back Berardi before we can entertain such ideas. And that isn't certain for now.

Quote:
Heh .
Question is how much it takes to get someone you justify benching Dybala and or Berardi for. We pay 35-40 million for one and 15 million to resolve the others' half-share. Pereyra is cover for three midfield positions and can pitch in no matter our formation. Might be too much for him, but on current form not by too much considering his age and upside.
This is what it comes down to for me:

If we're going with the the 4-3-3, well and good. I have no complaints. But if we're sticking with the 4-3-1-2, i don't want us going into key matches with either Vidal or Pereyra being the 1. That to me is gross negligence.

Given that Dybala will likely replace Tevez i don't see why we should play him out of position for just a season as an AM. Berardi i don't know if he's got good enough footwork be able to pull off the position either, he is very effective but he isn't really a creative player. But i wouldn't mind him being tried there.

It just doesn't make sense to continue playing a formation which is heavily reliant on a playmaker, and then play someone out of position there or who is not good enough to play the position like Pereyra.

It amounts to incompetence. Surely Marotta can find us at least one decent alternative for the position. Even if it's a loan with option to buy.

I'm not expecting the world, i know with Dybala's transfer on the books, our remaining budget for the mercato is going to be slim. But this is an important position which needs reinforcing if things remain the same.

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post #51 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 13:00
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Marotta to meet Tevez after CL final to discuss future.
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post #52 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 13:08
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http://www.gazzetta.it/Calciomercato...79668508.shtml

Khedira coming for a medical already?
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post #53 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 13:25
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Looks like this might be fappening then



Name is Lena Gercke for CUG

NSFWsortof
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post #54 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 13:45
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His def leaving Real. Confirmed on his official instragram:

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Valdedebas for the last time. I am moving on but I will surely miss my club Real, all of its staff and my unbelievable teammates! Guys, it was one heck of a ride!!!
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post #55 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 17:33
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We paid 20m for Morata and he did not start the season as a starter either. Why should Dybala assume he will become an instant starter? That's not how it works, he has to earn it. And we all know he was bought with the view of replacing Tevez permanently once he leaves after next season.

Besides, he will get his chances to play with rotation.

I'm using the label of trequartista loosely to encompass playmaker/attacking midfielder, the semantics are not really what interest me.

Ideally, the kind of player i'd like is someone similar in style and substance to Hazard.

The traditional playmaker is i agree dead, what we need is an AM who is quick, good on the ball and has the ability to make the killer last pass.

And that is something we lack greatly.
I think it is worth mentioning that at the time that we were not starting Morata, we had paid a grand total of 5m for him. In fact that is still all the cash that has transferred hands in the Morata deal to date. We will soon owe another 7.5m and the last 7.5m isnt due for another year. We valued him at 20m, but we have only actually paid a fraction of that.

I think these deals are purposely obfuscated an made needlessly complex so that figures can look big and tall but still fit into a neat financial strategy.

When it comes to Dybala we seem to be making a statement of intent. Its a large fee and it comes in the wake of years of passing on premium transfer targets in the same price range. You dont spend 30m to keep your bench warm, and for that kind of outlay you have to be making changes to the first team. Even if the player is not fully developed, the only way they will become developed is by playing.

Personally I think that we are hoping to sign a decent player on free transfer. That way its 30m for 2 major players which is much easier to account for on the books than just one for the same outlay. I have heard nothing but rumours but apparently Sami Kedeira is close to signing, which would be a 20m or so player for peanuts but it would mean an overloaded midfield and most likely the end of at least one of our current crew.

what you think
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post #56 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 17:48
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Nothing to confirm but there is talk about Pirlo heading to MLS.
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post #57 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 18:27
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Pirlo is the obvious candidate to leave, i think the management realize they overextended his contract and i think there will be an attempt to move him on this summer.

He doesn't have it in him to be a starter for us for another season, and Pirlo is not the type of player who can sit on the bench even at his age.

I think parting ways is an obvious solution. The question is, will Pirlo be willing to sacrifice another season with us to leave?

He's already gotten 4 Scudetti with us, surely there is a temptation to try to win one more.

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post #58 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 21:10
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Khedira: Juve medical in 48 hours
By Football Italia staff


Sami Khedira is expected to undergo a Juventus medical within the next 48 hours and sign a four-year contract.

The midfielder is a free agent after deciding not to renew his current deal with Real Madrid.

According to numerous sources, Khedira’s agent has already agreed terms with the Bianconeri for a four-year contract worth €4m per season plus bonuses.

Calciomercato.com insist the 28-year-old will fly in to complete a medical within the next 48 hours, so by Thursday at the latest.

It is the second major signing for Juventus, who already secured Paulo Dybala from Palermo.

The 21-year-old forward will cost around €40m between cash, bonuses and player exchanges


------------

Quick work by Marrotta, hopefully Khedira is uneffected by the injuries of last 2 years and his experience proves quite useful, though not a fan at all of him, its still a smart opportunity to pounce on. But we should focus on creative/attacking midfielders now, even if its just backup level players, seriously need the variety in this midfield of mainly well rounded physical/hardworking players.


Or if we going for a starter, perhaps Coutinho could be a great opportunity even if unrealistic since he will be pricey, Liverpool right now are quite possibly a sinking ship that ended the season in worst way imagineable, any player with some ambition might want to consider his career there right now. Tho its mainly the spoilt Sterling who is making a fuss. The two better players Coutinho and Sturridge arent making any noise despite the club looking like they will never reach CL qualification in near future.



P.S Someone should whisper Firmino's name into Marotta's ear :hopeful:

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post #59 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 21:15
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Well, in hindsight it was mistake, but you cant sign them all. I am more annoyed about the players we own and let go cheaply and without giving them chance- Gabbiadini this year, probably Berardi the next one.
Gabbiadini is wrong timing thing mainly, but Berardi will be a huge mistake if we give up on him, wether its buying back outright or retaining buy option after selling the half, its better then just giving up on him. This kid might become historical type of consistent italian scorer so defenitely shouldnt miss the boat with him.


And yeah you cant sign them all, but Verratti is just INSANELY skillfull from the first minute you saw him, it really was a huge opportunity to get a future legendary playmaker, seriously hope we are in first line if he ever leaves PSG any time soon. But something tells me Barca/Real will be first in line.

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post #60 of 9547 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2015, 21:57
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The way I see it, Dybala coming in and Pirlo no longer being a starter for us, atleast, all ties up. The burden of creativity will be further upfield and it can't be all on Tevez. Dybala essentially replaces Pirlo in a narrow 4-3-2-1 where him and Tevez alternate between being the attacking mid and the 2nd striker. The mid won't have Pirlo to 'babysit' defensively either.
If we can add Berardi, Khedira and Darmian, it will be a very good mercato.
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